Advan Evo 9 vs Evo X race
- Thread starter axl
- Start date
Re: Advan Evo 9 vs Evo X race
I smile when i see an Evo10 but when i see an Evo 9 my hair stand up. EVO9 FTW!
I smile when i see an Evo10 but when i see an Evo 9 my hair stand up. EVO9 FTW!
Re: Advan Evo 9 vs Evo X race
Oopps. I wanted to say Evo 9 and below. But for you, when i see you, i want to buy for you kopi.
axl;331607 said:
Oopps. I wanted to say Evo 9 and below. But for you, when i see you, i want to buy for you kopi.
axl
Well-Known Member
Re: Advan Evo 9 vs Evo X race
Compared to the current STI, it's heavier, underperforms (slightly) and more expensive?
Might be wrong though.
Hot Version Vol. 92 have them go head-to-head, but I haven't had a chance to watch yet: Hot Version - Vol 92 [WRX vs EVO-X] avi : Movies > Automotive/Cars - Mininova
Compared to the current STI, it's heavier, underperforms (slightly) and more expensive?
Might be wrong though.
Hot Version Vol. 92 have them go head-to-head, but I haven't had a chance to watch yet: Hot Version - Vol 92 [WRX vs EVO-X] avi : Movies > Automotive/Cars - Mininova
DoggieHowser
Well-Known Member
Re: Advan Evo 9 vs Evo X race
As posted on another forum: the X is heavier and only has 320ps
The IX is lighter with at least 10ps higher.
Guess they haven't figured out how to tweak the most of the 4B11.
Give it some time... the car chassis is stiffer and if we aren't restricting it to Group N regulations, it can handle more power than the CT9A ever could. The CT9A does get quite twitchy beyond 450ps. If you look at the really fast Evo 9s in Sepang, none of them are tuned above 400-450ps because the car does get twitchier.
Similar complaints were levelled at Evo 7, vs Evo 6 TME at the time the 7 was launched.
As posted on another forum: the X is heavier and only has 320ps
The IX is lighter with at least 10ps higher.
Guess they haven't figured out how to tweak the most of the 4B11.
Give it some time... the car chassis is stiffer and if we aren't restricting it to Group N regulations, it can handle more power than the CT9A ever could. The CT9A does get quite twitchy beyond 450ps. If you look at the really fast Evo 9s in Sepang, none of them are tuned above 400-450ps because the car does get twitchier.
Similar complaints were levelled at Evo 7, vs Evo 6 TME at the time the 7 was launched.
centurion
Well-Known Member
Re: Advan Evo 9 vs Evo X race
I guess when the Best Motoring guy said that this car is now ready for 2.5L he was pretty much correct. 2L car at almost 150ps/litre already at the manufacturer's limit for most purposes. The chassis is very sweet but as the target segment worships HP, Mitsubishi should do well to consider a light V6 in there. Trouble is I think they have no such engine ...TripleM;331760 said:
DoggieHowser
Well-Known Member
Re: Advan Evo 9 vs Evo X race
Can borrow IL6 from 335?
hee
THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!
Can borrow IL6 from 335?
hee
THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!
Re: Advan Evo 9 vs Evo X race
What happens when power exceeds 450hp on the E9s and earlier? I don't see how chassis rigidity beyond the basic 20K Nm/deg levels can solve a power related handling problem.. Given the same tires, you can't stress the chassis to a greater level, only for a long duration. With road course work the torsionals come overwhelmingly from cornering forces and not engine.
What happens when power exceeds 450hp on the E9s and earlier? I don't see how chassis rigidity beyond the basic 20K Nm/deg levels can solve a power related handling problem.. Given the same tires, you can't stress the chassis to a greater level, only for a long duration. With road course work the torsionals come overwhelmingly from cornering forces and not engine.
DoggieHowser
Well-Known Member
Re: Advan Evo 9 vs Evo X race
All I can tell you is how each generation of the Evo felt like.
Evo 4 got hairy at above 340hp. Evo 5/6 became more twitchy above 350-380hp.
And for Evo CT9As, sweet spot seemed to be 450. Most cars detune a little for Sepang to ard 450ish.. but usually have an overboost for the straights.
All I can tell you is how each generation of the Evo felt like.
Evo 4 got hairy at above 340hp. Evo 5/6 became more twitchy above 350-380hp.
And for Evo CT9As, sweet spot seemed to be 450. Most cars detune a little for Sepang to ard 450ish.. but usually have an overboost for the straights.
Re: Advan Evo 9 vs Evo X race
BK, I was thinking about it more and I guess on AWD cars with a high dry traction limit and low initial powers, you can in fact load a chassis up more as you increase power, especially as the band narrows and torque gradient steepens. Even more with point and shoot driving that to some degree may be forced by the layout.
WIth AWD the torsional isn't going to be as bad as with FR though.. going to be closer to roll cos it is has drive loads at both ends. As acceleration increases it will tend more toward RWD type torsion as the F loses load.
Still thinking about road courses where most of the corner exits are in 3rd or 4th, I don't think the torsion or roll effect really can hurt it to that point unless the chassis is really kind of noodley/light? I think it has to do possibly with the caster and toe settings of the cars across the years, especially caster. What it came with stock, and how far it could be tweaked from there.
To examine the torsion issue, it would not that expensive and very revealing to stick a load cell in each corner of the car, and then full bore accelerate in a straight line and watch the peak and average delta in L to R loads at the F and R, from E4 till E10. Or even just in a 300hp E9 vs a 500 hp E9. Tests like that will show whether twitch cause is mostly chassis torsion, or alignment.
As for why people start detuning for 450hp range for the track, I've always been under the impression that the earliest limiting factor are temps, engine longevity, knock limit on malaysian gas even with toluene for safety, narrowing powerband, etc. before twitchiness.
Do your E8 friends running roughly 450-500hp at SIC complain about twitch before other issues?
BK, I was thinking about it more and I guess on AWD cars with a high dry traction limit and low initial powers, you can in fact load a chassis up more as you increase power, especially as the band narrows and torque gradient steepens. Even more with point and shoot driving that to some degree may be forced by the layout.
WIth AWD the torsional isn't going to be as bad as with FR though.. going to be closer to roll cos it is has drive loads at both ends. As acceleration increases it will tend more toward RWD type torsion as the F loses load.
Still thinking about road courses where most of the corner exits are in 3rd or 4th, I don't think the torsion or roll effect really can hurt it to that point unless the chassis is really kind of noodley/light? I think it has to do possibly with the caster and toe settings of the cars across the years, especially caster. What it came with stock, and how far it could be tweaked from there.
To examine the torsion issue, it would not that expensive and very revealing to stick a load cell in each corner of the car, and then full bore accelerate in a straight line and watch the peak and average delta in L to R loads at the F and R, from E4 till E10. Or even just in a 300hp E9 vs a 500 hp E9. Tests like that will show whether twitch cause is mostly chassis torsion, or alignment.
As for why people start detuning for 450hp range for the track, I've always been under the impression that the earliest limiting factor are temps, engine longevity, knock limit on malaysian gas even with toluene for safety, narrowing powerband, etc. before twitchiness.
Do your E8 friends running roughly 450-500hp at SIC complain about twitch before other issues?
Crufty Dusty
Well-Known Member
Re: Advan Evo 9 vs Evo X race
re: "worship HP" that's a generalization that applies to all car enthusiasts, it's like money, hard disk storage capacity and RAM... too much is never enough. The platform has been proven for many years with commonly available parts... no need to significantly change a winning formula unless required by law or environmental concerns.
Mitsubishi actually does have a few V6 engines the most famous is called the 6G72 which is pretty well known. It was used in the Mitsubishi GTO (Japan), also known as the 3000GT (US) and Dodge Stealth (US).centurion;331767 said:
re: "worship HP" that's a generalization that applies to all car enthusiasts, it's like money, hard disk storage capacity and RAM... too much is never enough. The platform has been proven for many years with commonly available parts... no need to significantly change a winning formula unless required by law or environmental concerns.
centurion
Well-Known Member
Re: Advan Evo 9 vs Evo X race
Hi Crufty, there was somewhere I read and lazy to search now, that the Mitsu V6 engines are pretty heavy and probably will affect the Evo's balance .... as for the power, i've recently found a statement by Ben Oliver (Car) which is quite relevant to my thinking: More power is seldom a bad thing, but it's much more satisfying to stretch an engine than constrain it.Crufty Dusty;332105 said:
Crufty Dusty
Well-Known Member
Re: Advan Evo 9 vs Evo X race
re: stretching an engine, how far do you want to go, and how much are you willing to pay for it?
It's a classic engineering problem: maximize power, fuel efficiency and reliability with low weight, cost and environmental footprint. If anyone can fulfill all criteria then there will not be a need for further engine R&D. Everything involves a compromise, it is only to the extent to which one can be satisfied.centurion;332142 said:
re: stretching an engine, how far do you want to go, and how much are you willing to pay for it?
centurion
Well-Known Member
Re: Advan Evo 9 vs Evo X race
stretch= rev an engine to real high, shift, repeat, and yet not be too much beyond the lay. work the engine hard and yet manage the speed. Not stretch the engine to higher and higher HP...Crufty Dusty;332161 said:It's a classic engineering problem: maximize power, fuel efficiency and reliability with low weight, cost and environmental footprint. If anyone can fulfill all criteria then there will not be a need for further engine R&D. Everything involves a compromise, it is only to the extent to which one can be satisfied.
re: stretching an engine, how far do you want to go, and how much are you willing to pay for it?
