Chief Driving Instructor BMW Club laughs at Cayman owners who want 400HP

centurion

Well-Known Member
Re: Chief Driving Instructor BMW Club laughs at Cayman owners who want 400HP

I think he was offering sincere view, not laughing. It also makes sense from the driver standpoint to always try and max out a given setup before moving on because if you don't, there's always the danger of falling into the lazy driver trap. Lazy drivers are able to clock good, not great, times. Being analytical and truly practicing, once you have been rewarded with a good experience finding the last % you never thought was there, it is hard to go back to just driving ok - no real reward or joy. This concept applies to any vehicle and affects not just times and speeds on track, but smoothness and efficiency on roads. It is enjoyable optimizing everything you can.
 
Re: Chief Driving Instructor BMW Club laughs at Cayman owners who want 400HP

I had alot more fun and decided that the Cayman was a better street/track car than my GT3, given the face that running costs are alot 50% of the GT3, the cayman is at least 50% better in terms of handling capacity and driving rewards.
Having said that, the reason why I dont have either cars in Singapore now,
#1 COST I cannot justify having more than 1 Porsche which is already underutilised
#2 LOTUS

:)
 
Re: Chief Driving Instructor BMW Club laughs at Cayman owners who want 400HP

R33Devil;258363 said:
I had alot more fun and decided that the Cayman was a better street/track car than my GT3, given the fact that running costs are only 50% of the GT3(cheaper tires and brake pads/disc), the cayman is at least 50% better in terms of handling capacity and driving rewards.
Having said that, the reason why I dont have either cars in Singapore now,
#1 COST I cannot justify having more than 1 Porsche which is already underutilised
#2 LOTUS

:)
.............................
 
Re: Chief Driving Instructor BMW Club laughs at Cayman owners who want 400HP

Shaun;258347 said:
I think he was offering sincere view, not laughing. It also makes sense from the driver standpoint to always try and max out a given setup before moving on because if you don't, there's always the danger of falling into the lazy driver trap. Lazy drivers are able to clock good, not great, times. Being analytical and truly practicing, once you have been rewarded with a good experience finding the last % you never thought was there, it is hard to go back to just driving ok - no real reward or joy. This concept applies to any vehicle and affects not just times and speeds on track, but smoothness and efficiency on roads. It is enjoyable optimizing everything you can.
thus, my current lust for a S$35K Miata just to take to PG every weekend. I'm not good enough a driver even for my baby porsche.
 
Re: Chief Driving Instructor BMW Club laughs at Cayman owners who want 400HP

Yes, a great car for little, just park it near or at PG. Since you like tinkering and tech, you can maintain it yourself or with a buddy (even better if he gets one himself). Simple 6-10 channel data acquisition will flood you with more data than you could ever crunch, and teach you so much about vehicle dynamics as a whole, about that specific car, and driving too. And in the mid to long term it will be cheaper than tracking an expensive street car, which as you have stated, is all about compromise.

I'm surprised with all the money floating about and all the macho talk about who's the better driver blah blah, locally, that there isn't some spec miata thing going on. Now there's your business idea if you end up getting familiar with the cars and can get the competitive trend going among the enthusiasts. Buy 5, do them up equal, rent or sell them to the more hardcore drivers. Have a pro drive, learn to drive just like him. Have a friend drive, and find the differences between him and you etc.
 
Re: Chief Driving Instructor BMW Club laughs at Cayman owners who want 400HP

That's a good business idea. Start our Skip Barber Asia using 2nd hand Miatas. Charge cheap. Rent out the car. Dereg the car and park it in PG or near there. Rent some space put these cars in a 2 deck container.

But to sell, nobody will ever buy them. Power small, hairdresser reputation, etc.

Talk is cheap though. Do you see me lifting a hand for this? Not yet anyway... but I got this in my head now.
 
Re: Chief Driving Instructor BMW Club laughs at Cayman owners who want 400HP

Read the post and didn't find him to be "laughing" or whatever. Just a frank opinion that I share as well, i.e. most folks always look to power as the first solution when it is usually not. When you have a hammer, everything else looks like a nail.

It's human nature to settle into a predictable pattern; if you're behind the wheels of a powerful car, you don't really need to read traffic well because you know you can easily undertake/overtake. Lots of options. On the other hand if your car is underpowered you need to read traffic better, better recognition of event horizon etc to plan your moves beforehand.
 
Re: Chief Driving Instructor BMW Club laughs at Cayman owners who want 400HP

caySman;258453 said:
That's a good business idea. Start our Skip Barber Asia using 2nd hand Miatas. Charge cheap. Rent out the car. Dereg the car and park it in PG or near there. Rent some space put these cars in a 2 deck container.

But to sell, nobody will ever buy them. Power small, hairdresser reputation, etc.

Talk is cheap though. Do you see me lifting a hand for this? Not yet anyway... but I got this in my head now.

I think you could find 5 or 10 people in total across the current track population that would buy a quick, cheap, driver's car just to track. Especially if it allows them to really get wheel to wheel, compare driving skills, learn how to really drive without aids a straight up sporty manual RWD. If not then possibly rentals. You'd have to keep them running as much as possible in order to turn any sort of profit and have to be very clear in the rental agreement as to costs for this and that, contact, etc. and rent only to responsible drivers who've been through some sort of basic course or passed a simple test. Even SIC is a possibility. You can sufficiently power up those things for SIC. Then it opens up the market to the driving community into more of Malaysia as well.
 
Re: Chief Driving Instructor BMW Club laughs at Cayman owners who want 400HP

R33Devil;258363 said:
#1 COST I cannot justify having more than 1 Porsche which is already underutilised

I would like to help in the area of utilization of the 993 RS - especially if it justifies the acquisition of another Porsche like the Cayman. If, after you've bought this second Porsche, it too needs utilization, I will gladly help out. Service with a smile, all at no cost to you, except for maybe some wear and tear.
 
Re: Chief Driving Instructor BMW Club laughs at Cayman owners who want 400HP

Shaun;258551 said:
. Service with a smile, all at no cost to you, except for maybe some wear and tear.

blow me...and to quote someone here.."with ice pls"
 
Re: Chief Driving Instructor BMW Club laughs at Cayman owners who want 400HP

Good advice.
Mod driver 1st, then the extra power will be more meaningful and properly utilised
 
Re: Chief Driving Instructor BMW Club laughs at Cayman owners who want 400HP

caySman;258556 said:
my my that caught on.

tea O pls.......
 
Re: Chief Driving Instructor BMW Club laughs at Cayman owners who want 400HP

With the Cayman being so driveable, I don't believe you need super skills to enjoy 400bph. Give me 400bps and I'll learn to be a better driver as I go along!
 
Re: Chief Driving Instructor BMW Club laughs at Cayman owners who want 400HP

titanic;260177 said:
With the Cayman being so driveable, I don't believe you need super skills to enjoy 400bph. Give me 400bps and I'll learn to be a better driver as I go along!
hard. The sheer power masks the weaknesses.
 
Re: Chief Driving Instructor BMW Club laughs at Cayman owners who want 400HP

caySman;260196 said:
hard. The sheer power masks the weaknesses.

Hard but not impossible. What's worth doing is usually hard. Very normal.
 
Re: Chief Driving Instructor BMW Club laughs at Cayman owners who want 400HP

titanic;260490 said:
Hard but not impossible. What's worth doing is usually hard. Very normal.
Definitely hard. But its probably harder for a striving Miata driver to beat a `rely on power' 400hp Cayman driver by sheer good driving.
 
Re: Chief Driving Instructor BMW Club laughs at Cayman owners who want 400HP

Enthusiasts typically figure out how close they're using a car to its limits by referencing laptimes to similar models running simillar hardware and tune states and seeing where they fall, but that is really rough because of big differences in driver ability, in the overall setup (little differences have big effect and often not even measured), weather and track surface, across weeks and months.

The smaller the set used for comparison (ie. rarer the car, more expensive (access) or powerful (practicality)) is, the more likely the benchmarks are skewed. Many like to feel they're doing a good job within a skewed benchmarking structure, or are unaware they're operating within one. In this case, only true and sustained desire to really find out will push one to assess the structure to determine if a good position in it means anything at all, or ignore it altogether and keep pushing for tenth after tenth.

The other options are to let an accomplished pro drive your car till he is comfortable with it and says he's putting everything into the time, note it, then have him ride with you and tell you where the differences come up. Data from the quick lap is great, but not required. Lacking sincere focused advice from a true pro, it just helps save a lot of time and money from not having to run trial and error in different areas you think or feel may be inefficient. Also, good drivers sometime aren't good teachers since it is difficult to communicate a combination of quick changing feels and action/reaction points, etc. This is where sufficient data is a huge advantage - quantifying everything, and in order.

So yes it is possible to improve with a lot of power, but only if you're very determined and honest with yourself. From what I've seen though, almost no enthusiast is, although we like to think we are. It almost always takes numerous and obvious external signs that the driving sucks in order to seek efficiency. FWIW, the only immediate positive I can come up with, in terms of driver discipline, from a lot more power, is greater challenge controlling the car with throttle. This positive might not even exist depending on how the additional power is delivered. It can sometimes be easier to drive, in some ways, with more power - though this isn't usually the case.
 

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