Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

[kenntona]

I have read a lot of concerns on weight of rims in local forums (which I reckoned essentially an Asian mentality) insofar as purchasing decisions are concerned, but I have also seen inconsistent tyre purchases by the same unsprung-weight cautious car owners where weight is sacrifice for prices. So you rationalised a 0.5 kg of unsprung weight on the wheels, but ignored that some tyres can be 1 kg heavier than the rest. LPPL. One example - based on 255/35R18, the Dunlop Direzza is 3 lbs heavier than the F1 Assymetric, 2 lbs heavier than PS2 or CSC3 in the same size. Would that be a consideration at all?

3 lbs is 1.36 kg - per wheel !!!

Do you know which tyres are lightest and heaviest, assuming you know the other variables such as grip, wear rate, compound......?

Just interested to know the decision making process.......

FYI I am using PS2 on my ride based on dry/wet grip criteria.

 

[hetraa]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

yah i read about the tire weights during rim research too..
i feel weights are impt to me choosing my next set of tires now...

ps2 are pretty light compared to the rest, with grip factored in...

 

[Azrielsc]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

Good observation, Ken.

Everyone seems to be very particular when it comes to the weight of the rims but then slap on heavy tires. It totally defeats the purpose of running a light setup.

 

[BMWSILVER]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

I was using SportMaxx then changed to PS2 recently and noticed faster pick-up for my car. I think it is due to the weight of PS2.

 

[kenntona]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

ps2 are pretty light compared to the rest, with grip factored in...

Based on 245/35R19 front 275/30R19 rear, these are the numbers from tirerack:

PS2 - 24 lbs, 27 lbs
CSC3 - 26 lbs, 26 lbs
F1 Assym - 26 lbs, 26 lbs
PZero Rosso - 24 lbs, 27 lbs

 

[tbt]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

Good observation, Ken.

Everyone seems to be very particular when it comes to the weight of the rims but then slap on heavy tires. It totally defeats the purpose of running a light setup.

Sam,

thats right, also do consider spacer / TI nuts / tires / rims / coil-overs , all these are unsprung weight to the car.......if go to the extreme even the air in the tire also counts.

the best of the best PS2 follow by CSC3 for weight & grip.

bt

 

[Azrielsc]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

Seems like out of all these tires, the F1 Assym seems to be a perfect blend of pricing, performance and weight!

 

[iScoupe]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

Ken u're good, Great question - so wat is the lightest for 17" tyres?

Ur M6 power shld not make much different for that few lbs...

 

[totoseow]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

when it comes to cars....anything thats lighter is good.

AI EXPRESSIONS MAI?

 

[ninja07]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

Well said. Thats why I got PS2s for my previous E46, prob the lightest tire around alongside performance. Now I'm just waiting for my run flats to wear out....

 

[JLMC]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

buy lightwt rims, light wt tires, assym etc...bla - bla - bla ...
then add golf bag (BMW ones), add bicycle rack, n all other barang..
ai-swee, mai-mia, mai swee, pai-mia
ai-swee, ai-mia...then chum-siong lor...

 

[C3P0]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

Interesting point brought up. Funny point too, ha ha ha.

OT: I hardly - not never, but hardly - ask about weight of rims or tyres. 2 reasons: First, I am technically nuts. Second, anyone who has seen me will know that my weight kind of compensate for my car's heavy rims / tyres.

 

[TripleM]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

To me it's definitely a consideration.
For street performance on a sport car, it definitely deserves a good set of performance tires. PS2 falls in for me.
Heavy tires definitely affect the rotational mass greatly. Remember, the further away the weight from the centre of rotation, the more rolling resistance it has.

For family cars, weight consideration is secondary. More of a decent grip and noise level being the primary considerations

So in general, most look at factors such as pricing, traction level, noise and life which to me, are all very valid reasons to consider.

At the enf of the day, know what u buy and u know nothing is perfect.
A street tire with superior dry traction and lateral grip will typically be : noisy, slightly heavier ( due to multi reinforcement of steel belts ) and poor tread life

Then u have a medium weight type, average traction but very quiet too like Aspec db

All sorts of traits...gong buay liao.....

 

[Ahbengdriver]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

Can I use PS2 front n GY ASYM rear?

Also less rubber less weight. Anyone selling PS2 with 50% thread left, I am stocking up

Someone gotta make a silicon tyre one day:screwedu:

 

[totoseow]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

Interesting point brought up. Funny point too, ha ha ha.

OT: I hardly - not never, but hardly - ask about weight of rims or tyres. 2 reasons: First, I am technically nuts. Second, anyone who has seen me will know that my weight kind of compensate for my car's heavy rims / tyres.

u n kenn...exact opposite.

 

[R2D]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

Rotational mass is the killer of inertia and hence feels heavy and ponderous. If there was a possibility to save weight, save on the tire weight before you save on rim weight cos the mass on the circumference is worse for performance.

 

[dsdfan]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

Are there less expensive tyres that are as light as PS2, but in the Goodyear Revspec or Federal 595 price range?

 

[edlms]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

wah... thought another fat guy bashing thread... ha ha...

seriously though...
the tyre weight is one of many factors when choosing a tyre. handling, noise, dry/wet grip, weight, sidewall thickness etc (leaving price out). therefore, maybe 10-20% weightage...
for the rims, it's mainly about strength and weight for diameter size (leaving out looks and price). 50% weightage.

moreover, the difference is weight between competing tyres is 2/24lbs= +/- 8% but for competing rims could be up to 2/11kg =+/-19%.
but I understand that the % weight difference on the rotational mass (tyre) may mean more difference than the %weight difference for the rim... it's just that there are many other things to think about when choosing a tyre that may outweight the difference in weight.
this is a rough examples of the calculation but you get my meaning...

but to answer your question, yes it is a consideration but not a major one.

cheers

 

[kenntona]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

the tyre weight is one of many factors when choosing a tyre. handling, noise, dry/wet grip, weight, sidewall thickness etc (leaving price out). therefore, maybe 10-20% weightage... for the rims, it's mainly about strength and weight for diameter size (leaving out looks and price). 50% weightage.

When you narrow down your parameters to performance-drivers, then essentially your tyre pick and your wheels picks are rather limited. If you are a performance-driven person, you would have less than a handful of tyre models to choose from. No diff for rims - less than a handful. Which would, ironically made everyone in this category choose more or less the same wheels/tyres?

For wheels, budget and style can be other considerations - hence Neez. Schmeiden and HRE Competition are out of reach to some as compared to say Advan, Volks or OZ. Wile weight is a consideration, the selection process is more multi-dimensional.

But for tyres, is that so in real life? Grip, compound and weight - that should narrow down to less than a handful of names - PS2, Pirelli Zero/Rosso, RE01R, CSC3, F1 Assymetric. So why are we seeing so many other brands like Yokohama, Federal, Dunlop being mentioned? Bear in mind the budget could be a concern, but strangely, not many bother to check on tyre weights at all !!!

Next meetup, take a look at some lightweight performance wheels shrodded in not-so-light not-so-performance tyres. Then you will know what I am talking about.

moreover, the difference is weight between competing tyres is 2/24lbs= +/- 8% but for competing rims could be up to 2/11kg =+/-19%. but I understand that the % weight difference on the rotational mass (tyre) may mean more difference than the %weight difference for the rim... it's just that there are many other things to think about when choosing a tyre that may outweight the difference in weight. this is a rough examples of the calculation but you get my meaning...

but to answer your question, yes it is a consideration but not a major one.

Refer to this thread:

http://www.bmw-sg.com/forums/suspen...s-equivalent-2.html?highlight=rotational+mass

If the factor is less than 2 times, that is, 4 kgs savings off 4 wheels to give up to 8 kg savings in overall weight effectively, then 4 kgs savings off 4 mounted tyres should also give up to 8 kg savings in overall weight. That is a crucial consideration if unsprung mass is a key parameter in the back of your mind. So why is this piece of info often ignored? Are we missing something here?

 

[edlms]

Re: Is Weight Of Tyres A Concern To You?

i take you points, and agree with most if not all.
if you include budget into the equation, then imho, weight plays an even lesser factor for tyres and consequently, the % weight difference between competing tyres also factors less significantly.

maybe it's just a simple (maybe subconsciously) dismissive mentality of "how much difference can rubber weigh from tyre to tyre?"

Should we be asking
"what's the grippiest and cheapest tyre for the lightest tyre/rim?" or
"what's the lightest and grippiest tyre/rim for $X price?" or
"what the lightest and cheapest tyre for the best grip?"

is it usually the average of all factors with emphasis on price and grip?

or maybe we're just influenced by the multitude of reviews saying dry grip good, wet grip bad, noisy but comfortable ride...

this thread should be in line with your emphasis of reducing overall weight for performance gains.
as with all things in life, there are trade offs and i think that for tyres, the weight savings are more easily traded for things like grip/handling and price, especially since they are consumables...

cheers