ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

[Shaun]

Lots of nice cars going ever faster, raising the bar. Mclaren at 2:24 etc. Lots of the usual cars you see at the track too, but all going considerably faster. Close to my heart obviously is the S2000 class. All sorts of new records for the class happening now which is great.

Guy, it was good to see your name floating around top 5 or so in the GT class all afternoon.

It was a good Sunday for Ascendant Motorsport and ST Power / ST Wangan, with Arthur's (nick: Elite) heavy, road registered, daily driven, never trailered to track GTR winning the event with the GTR all time record (in line with WTAC rules) at 2:21.9, setting overall fastest time of the whole event, beating all the dedicated trackcars while at it, and winning the GTR class. This was done in the first lap the car ran the day of the competition and stood till the end. Officially, it is the second fastest laptime in the history of the event including all dedicated trackcars. The fastest WTAC-aligned racecar laptime in the 4 year history of the event is just 0.1 sec away at 2:21.8, by our friend Desmond Soh.

Data shows 2:20.7 waiting to be picked up, but conditions need to line up. Why sit still on the hardware and development though... best to keep moving and the aim is to get to low 2:19 on semis by December which will beat even the old slick record set before things were lined up with WTAC.

 

[guy013]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

shaun, unfortunately didnt get to meet any of the BMW-SG guys over there but yes the ascendant GTR is very fast. I was checking out the time sheets and the straight line speed of that GTR was around 260kmh, 20kmh more than the next GTR. pretty amazing.

yes i was a little disappointed with my timing 2:37.338 as I did better the day before at the Maximus track day. i guess for my 1st time attack event 3rd place is not so bad, at least i got to bring back a trophy haha. Considering i was running a street setup on PSS tires and no camber kit, i'm hoping to improve on my timing in round 2 in Dec. I don't know if the Tengku in his track setup E36 M3 is possible to catch (2:33.xx). I badly need to improve my driving skills

i wish more cars would participate in the GT class, there were only 9 or so cars. I'm sure there are more than a few guys in here who can compete in this class. Was disappointed not to see any 1M's.

For those thinking about signing up it's a really fun day all around, you get to see some really fast cars and really good drivers as well out there. and of course the opportunity to push our cars to the limits in a controlled environment. for 450RM is really good value for money.

Hope to see more of you guys at Round 2 in Dec 28

 

[MachoMan]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

Shaun, great results. Congrats to both you and Arthur.

Guy, agree with you that it's a fun weekend. I learnt quite a few things from this event as well. I realize that with this kind of format and almost 40 cars in my run group, there isn't much time. It was hard to even get clear laps. The first few laps were like CCT, though that was pretty fun too.

 

[Shaun]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

shaun, unfortunately didnt get to meet any of the BMW-SG guys over there but yes the ascendant GTR is very fast. I was checking out the time sheets and the straight line speed of that GTR was around 260kmh, 20kmh more than the next GTR. pretty amazing.

Yes Bubbles DeVere on cocaine is nasty. We do have good power but not far different from a few other GTRs. The active wing trimming out along the straight, helps with a couple of km/h. More importantly though, varying the T15 apex location results in the trap speed changing by up to 7 km/h. Longitudinal tire slip coming off T15 also affects the trap speed (more slip, higher trap speed, worse elapsed time on straight, and vice versa). The slip is not by choice but because of gearing. If I've to choose between a laggy but smooth exit one gear up that guarantees I'll be two tenths slower than best, vs a quick but difficult to control exit in a lower gear that I can take advantage of only slightly more than half the time, I'll take that risk because it's a TA. Sometimes it doesn't work out optimally, but the slips sure are fun, especially all the way up and across T10.

The rules in TA / TTA competitions open as they are, will always favor traction, technology, downforce, power, special materials. It's all just money and machinery. For the best driver comparison where fields are big and high quality, vehicles are fast and physically taxing, and where money has the least influence, and where everyone is spending close to the same amounts, look to Rotax Max, Yamaha, X30, spec engine kart racing. In cars, it's F2000 Eurocup and and higher.

yes i was a little disappointed with my timing 2:37.338 as I did better the day before at the Maximus track day. i guess for my 1st time attack event 3rd place is not so bad, at least i got to bring back a trophy haha. Considering i was running a street setup on PSS tires and no camber kit, i'm hoping to improve on my timing in round 2 in Dec. I don't know if the Tengku in his track setup E36 M3 is possible to catch (2:33.xx). I badly need to improve my driving skills

Ah you went faster in the second session then. Congrats! Podiuming in your first time attack is very good. Going 2:33 is definitely possible because there are seconds in setup, and more than that in the driving for sure. Ryan used to run 34s in his non cambered, Z4M, full weight, manual and all. DCT should help.

i wish more cars would participate in the GT class, there were only 9 or so cars. I'm sure there are more than a few guys in here who can compete in this class. Was disappointed not to see any 1M's.

Ask your M club friends to join

For those thinking about signing up it's a really fun day all around, you get to see some really fast cars and really good drivers as well out there. and of course the opportunity to push our cars to the limits in a controlled environment. for 350RM is really good value for money.

Yes Tom and his team do a great job.

Shaun, great results. Congrats to both you and Arthur.

Guy, agree with you that it's a fun weekend. I learnt quite a few things from this event as well. I realize that with this kind of format and almost 40 cars in my run group, there isn't much time. It was hard to even get clear laps. The first few laps were like CCT, though that was pretty fun too.

Thanks Simon, congrats on podiuming in a very competitive class.

Even in our low volume class it was almost impossible to get fully clear laps. Last round I did not get a clear lap at all, but this time thankfully did. It's why I don't care about what people say about being kiasu, I just go out early and sit there first in line with AC on. There are too many other timing variables, so just maximize seat time and play it by ear.

I can see where people would stop coming to TA if it turned out to be CCT or a trackday just like any other, turning the laptime into more of a luck catching clear lap exercise, rather than showing true car potential. I hear ZTH is probably extending the hours and moving less important parts to evening/night to maximize daylight lapping.

 

[Shaun]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

shaun, unfortunately didnt get to meet any of the BMW-SG guys over there but yes the ascendant GTR is very fast. I was checking out the time sheets and the straight line speed of that GTR was around 260kmh, 20kmh more than the next GTR. pretty amazing.

Yes Bubbles DeVere on cocaine is extra nasty.
We do have good power but not far different from a few other GTRs. The active wing trimming out along the straight helps with a couple of km/h. More importantly, varying the T15 apex results in the trap speed changing by up to 7 km/h. Longitudinal tire slip coming off T15 also affects the trap speed (more slip, higher trap speed, worse elapsed time on straight, and vice versa). The slip is not by choice but because of gearing and tires. If I've to choose between a laggy but smooth exit one gear up that guarantees I'll be two tenths slower than best, vs a quick but difficult to control exit in a lower gear that I can take advantage of only slightly more than half the time, I'll take that risk because it's a TA. Sometimes it doesn't work out optimally, but the slips sure are fun, especially all the way up and across T10.

The rules in TA competitions, open as they are, will always favor traction, downforce, low weight, power, special materials. It's all just money and machinery, which is why the current top WTAC cars cars are bespoke conversions starting with cheap bases and ending at well over 300K. That's a ton of money for pure trackcars that start with a normal Japanese monocoque.

For the best driver comparison where fields are large and high quality, vehicles are fast and physically taxing, money has the least influence, and everyone spends close to equal amounts of it per year, look to Rotax Max (1st in Malaysia leads to world finals where 5th to 10th out of thousands of Rotax drivers internationally is possible, so ultra respect.), Yamaha, X30, spec engine kart racing. In cars, it's F2000 Eurocup and higher (all Euro too). Asia, except for Japanese F3, Formula Nippon / Super Formula, still has trouble building a series with above mentioned qualities - only lots of small series', and gentlemen or rich kid series' with huge variance in driver experience and skill.

yes i was a little disappointed with my timing 2:37.338 as I did better the day before at the Maximus track day. i guess for my 1st time attack event 3rd place is not so bad, at least i got to bring back a trophy haha. Considering i was running a street setup on PSS tires and no camber kit, i'm hoping to improve on my timing in round 2 in Dec. I don't know if the Tengku in his track setup E36 M3 is possible to catch (2:33.xx). I badly need to improve my driving skills

Ah you went faster in the second session then. Congrats! Podiuming in your first time attack is very good. Going 2:33 is definitely possible because there are seconds in setup, and more than that in the driving for sure. Ryan used to run 34s in his non cambered, Z4M, full weight, manual and all. DCT should help.

i wish more cars would participate in the GT class, there were only 9 or so cars. I'm sure there are more than a few guys in here who can compete in this class. Was disappointed not to see any 1M's.

Ask your M club friends to join

For those thinking about signing up it's a really fun day all around, you get to see some really fast cars and really good drivers as well out there. and of course the opportunity to push our cars to the limits in a controlled environment. for 350RM is really good value for money.

Yes Tom and his team do a great job.

Shaun, great results. Congrats to both you and Arthur.

Guy, agree with you that it's a fun weekend. I learnt quite a few things from this event as well. I realize that with this kind of format and almost 40 cars in my run group, there isn't much time. It was hard to even get clear laps. The first few laps were like CCT, though that was pretty fun too.

Thanks Simon, congrats on podiuming in a very competitive class.

Even in our low volume class it was almost impossible to get fully clear laps. Last round I did not get a clear lap at all, but this time thankfully did. It's why I don't care about what people say about being kiasu, I just go out early and sit there first in line with AC on. There are too many other timing variables, so just maximize seat time and play it by ear.

I can see where people would stop coming to TA if it turned out to be CCT or a trackday just like any other, turning the laptime into more of a luck catching clear lap exercise, rather than showing true car potential. I hear ZTH is probably extending the hours and moving less important parts to evening/night to maximize daylight lapping.

 

[Elite]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

Thanks Shaun -- it was a great team effort and driving

To add, it was an incredible amount of work and preparation to get the car ready for the competition. Every improvement / mod for all aspects of the car performance from power, acceleration, cooling, handling, aero etc. was researched, installed, tested (with data logging), analyzed and compared to previous performance and where needed, tweaks and improvements were done.

Given this is a daily driven road car, we were disadvantaged from dedicated trackcars that can go all out uncompromised, as the car still needs to meet basic civilian requirements such as able to carry passengers, have boot space etc etc.

Large amounts of project management and logistics were needed to co-ordinate the parts, install, testing and re-testing -- and the help from Ascendant Motorsport on car setup, driving the winning lap and driver training programs, ST Powered and ST Wagan on hardware and mech support were invaluable.

Numerous testing was done both at the track and on the road with data logging to ensure the results were achieved, and more importantly, repeatable. We had to know how the car will perform under all circumstances, and how the performance will vary with the conditions, and where possible, how to limit or compensate for the expected degradation.

Now, we know what all race teams go through (but they are at a much larger scale !). But I guess it was all worth in the end as Silver Surfer won 2 Fastest Overall out of the 3 ZTH TTA rounds

 

[Elite]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

BTW -- definitely do race karting !

Helps tremendously on the driving and road cars become much easier after karting with no DSC, ABS, EDC etc etc -- especially on reaction times and driver inputs etc.

 

[totoseow]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

well done guys! well done. mac 224.....amazing..since its not dennis

 

[Shaun]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

A lot of nicely built time attack machine dedicated trackcars going really fast now. There is at least one that could clearly have gone deep 21, or 20 with different trajectories picked.

Thanks for nuking your wallet Arthur and being methodical and detailed in your record keeping. Detail is everything. All the time you invested too. Gathering your own data on road and track, researching power options

As for learning what it's like for race teams, try 80 races and tunnel / rig / track tests in a span of 27 months, away from home away from home, flying from race to race for 4 months straight at a time, working 7 days / 130 hours a week. Then see if you still like racing. Listen to Bronn... 1, 1, 1. Not 1, 2, 1 hahah

And like I always say, enjoy it while you can because many cars, many drivers are constantly getting quicker, so it's just a matter of time before many are sub 20s.

 

[Elite]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

In terms of costs, all in, Silver Surfer costs probably less than a new M3 from Munich or even a PI M3 and about one third to one fourth of the Mclaren

Guess its like managing a race team budget or investing -- maximize value and impact

 

[Shaun]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

And like I always say, enjoy it while you can because many cars, many drivers are constantly getting quicker, so it's just a matter of time before many are sub 20s. 10 years ago, 2:35 was a super laptime at SIC....

 

[totoseow]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

so hv u found out how the mac did it?

 

[Shaun]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

so hv u found out how the mac did it?

Nope. I'm guessing ECU reprogram. I'm sure you have mutual friends... meet and chat

 

[totoseow]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

that's a huge number. u talking 5 seconds. u can do ecu/exos etc etc. 5 secs is big. u can go faster so u better b able to brake deeper or corner better. I say tires n ECU n a lot of driver improvement still.

 

[Shaun]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

Okok turns out he is Ascendant's secret client. Geez you dig so hard!

Jk jk

 

[guy013]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

For the Mac the only difference in setup between this year and last year was tires.

Rest should be driver improvement and mentioned being more confident to push the car harder this year.

 

[Shaun]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

Last year it was on Corsa tires... what about this year?

 

[guy013]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

Sorry I don't have that info.

But a lot of people were raving about the hankook z221

 

[TripleM]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

In terms of costs, all in, Silver Surfer costs probably less than a new M3 from Munich or even a PI M3 and about one third to one fourth of the Mclaren

Guess its like managing a race team budget or investing -- maximize value and impact

you are comparing a used vs new car...nx time i see you i ll steal your aeromotion wing

 

[harold996tt]

Re: ZTH TTA 2013 Round 1

Fantastic job Arthur and Shaun. Congrats on another amazing result.