A6 v 5 series

[mistraele]

ive asked this over at vagsg but just wanted to get a different perspective from the bmw owners.

my dad is thinking of getting a car for mum to get ferried around in. so far he has eliminated the lexus and the merc and we have been left with the A6 2.4 and the 523i. prices for both are around the same.

the A6 is definitely the roomier of the two. compared to the 523i it has a couple more options like window blinds, and a couple more speakers. in fact he was also quite taken with the load capacity of the Avant - as my mum does a lot of flower arranging etc. hes still a bit undecided about the front grill, but on the whole he thinks the A6 is a bit more stately looking that the bmw.

couple of things i dont like abot the A6 though. compared to the BMW the interior feels a bit austere. and what were they thinking of when designing the steering wheel?! its really ugly.

my father also prefers the interior of the bmw, from a design perspective.

if it was my choice i would probably push for the bmw, only because we dont have a RWD car in the family at present and on the rare occasion i got to drive it, id know i would have much more fun driving the bmw than the A6. but at the end of the day, car isnt for me. my parents are getting on, so they wouldnt care if it was FWD, AWD or no wheel drive... its basically which would serve its purpose better and ferry the occupants around in the most comfortable and cosseting manner (and without causing any headaches re ownership)

for the bmw, although price is the same, they are offering the free service package which includes wipers disk brakes etc for 3 years.

i am fully aware of the problems that people have encountered with PML on the service front. any comments re PA?

also what is the FC like for the 523? and if we did get it, any decent extras that i could likely squeeze PML for? i konw car has no GPS heads up display etc, but those wont be things my parents will be looking for anyway.

any other thoughts on the two cars would also be most welcome.

 

[xuexun]

Re: A6 v 5 series

For one thing, the 5 looks much better then the A6 IMO. It has a sportier yet elegant look, one of the "must get car" for me in terms of looks if i've got the money. Actually in terms of comfort, i think the Mercs E class will be one of the better chioce. BMW is the ultimate driving machine so no doubt about the handling. The free service package is quite a good pulling factor as it can give you 3 years of hassle free driving. SO i'll go for the 523i just because of the looks, ha~

 

[T6]

Re: A6 v 5 series

The 5 will exude a sportier image. Depending on their age profile, not sure if that is what your parents would like to be seen in. Some may prefer a less sporty look. If they want a more opulent interior, better (way better) after-sales service and not too concerned abt driveability or resale, then go for the Audi.

 

[eggz]

Re: A6 v 5 series

You might also want to consider ride comfort. Have you sat in the A6? The ride is pretty bad. Of the "big4" (BMW, Merc, Lexus, Audi) it's got the worst ride, not sure why, I think Audi just got it wrong with the stiffness vs comfort tuning on the chassis and suspension setup.

Witht he E60, if you swap out the runflat tyres, the ride is very good, almost as good as the E-class.

Also, consider resale, with the change to the tax system, it's not so attractive to export a car after a few years. I think a 5series is a little easier to get a good resale price than an A6.

 

[Mirage77]

Re: A6 v 5 series

The A6 will be a much more special car and it isn't just any car you're getting; it's an Audi. It is just as premium as MB or BMW and if you want to be different, the A6 is for you. It isn't very common and it has been highly commended as being the top in its class.

Contrary to what you said Audi makes one of the best interiors in the world. Hearing a A6 interior being "austere" to a 5 Series's one is my first. Maybe what you saw in the showroom didn't have the wood trim or it didn't have any options on. Because the A6's interior is just incredible. I do agree though the steering wheel is horrendous.

Design-wise, yes the 5 Series's interior is more avant-garde as compared to practicality in the A6.

I've heard nothing but praises for PA. PML I'm not so sure.

You can get the A6 with Quattro, if FWD is a niggling issue. For a sporty drive, I think you can get the 523i, but then again, what's a sporty drive with a 2.3L engine? I don't think you can expect much from these two cars in terms of being sports sedans; no doubt they are good but most of the time the reviews are reviewing the A6 3.0/4.2 or the 530i/550i.

My two cents. Hope you will make an informed choice.

 

[Mockngbrd]

Re: A6 v 5 series

grab an RS6 Avant
IF its between a normal A6 and 5 series, i think the 5 is a nicer choice...
A6 looks too erm... bathtub-like in stock form

 

[jellyfish]

Re: A6 v 5 series

I am no expert but I have driven both cars and here is my take (do note that I have a 523i on order so my views may be a little coloured) -

A6 pros and cons:
- not a common sight on our roads, certainly much less than the e60
- very spacious
- interior very well built
- grabby brakes that I find very difficult to modulate
- ride is hard, almost like the e60 with runflats

523i pros and cons:
- there is one almost at every other road junction
- avant garde design but somewhat negated but the above point
- relatively prone to electronic gremlins
- much better drive than the A6
- very good ride/handling balance without runflats
- 2.5l engine a little underpowered (your mileage may vary depending on driving style) but very smooth

 

[LuvMyUDM]

Re: A6 v 5 series

I'm a E39 owner and has been considering 523i and also went around testing car that is similiar range.

A6 is one of the model i test drive, in general, the car has more gadgets compare with 523i, but when come to handling and comfort of car ride, the 523i fair much more better.

In my humble opinion, i don't feel safe driving the A6 even if it is comparing with my E39.

 

[IS200]

Re: A6 v 5 series

I test drove the A6 2.4 ... didn't like it.

Ride is hard (not pliant enough), and the handling ain't great tending to understeer lots around tight bends at speed. I know its an FWD, but its not one of the better FWD setups around. Perhaps its designed mainly for autobahn commute.

2.4L engine runs out of breath pretty fast on reaching 4500+ RPMs.
And I don't fancy the MMT (CVT in Audi speak) tranny which makes lots of noise at higher RPMs ... even though it is reputedly one of the best CVT setups around, utilizing a chain belt (instead of rubber like in most Jap applications).

Although interior quality is high and 'classy', there is something about the Audi interior I just don't like ... can't really put my finger on it ... but perhaps its the red LED digitals all around the speedo, dashboard, even HU and aircond. High tech maybe, but just not my liking. Looks like the 70's digital red LED watches and 1st-gen HP calculators of old!

On top of it all, I feel (IMHO) that PA's margin made on the Audi A6 is way too high, when compared to its OMV. Go check LTA's OneMotoring website on car cost breakdown.
PML makes roughly $35K margin for a 523i, while PA makes a whopping $50K for an A6 2.4!!!!!

I'd get the 523i.

 

[althaus]

Re: A6 v 5 series

Yeah, I agree with 'IS200', ride of Audi is harsher amongst German cars (Merc, BMW, Audi). And I also don't fancy the A6's interior, one of the lousiest designed interiors in an Audi. However I think that an A6 will add to some fresh look on the road that is filled with 5 series nowadays.
But for easier resale and better value I would think the 5 series is the better choice especially that they had just changed the engine recently...

 

[TheNew7]

Re: A6 v 5 series

Well, if its gadgets you want, it would have to be the GS....

In my opinion, the A6 is a beautiful car. Inside and out. The main gripe I have with the car is the road noise intrusion. Other than that, I would disagree with you guys that the interior is 'horrible'.

The 5 is nice but I don't really agree with its i-Drive concept.... Not that friendly to use. Also, the interior ain't that nice. Simplistic, zen, whatever you wanna call it, but it just doesn't cut it for a near $200k car. However, saying all that, once you drive it, all is forgiven, it has the best feel of the lot in the class.

I have been deciding over a GS, A6 and the 5.... still undecided. I also agree that PA makes way too much on their cars but you can't help but agree that there is hardly any complaints about PA's aftersales service. PML is the direct opposite.

I currently drive an A4 and it hasn't given me much problems at all. Servicing is in the under $400 range. Plus their customer service executives are very friendly.

But even with this, the 5 series is still at the top of my list. If you mostly drive, and don't mind if your car isn't that reliable or bad aftersales service, then the 5 is the best choice.

Otherwise, maybe the GS would be a very good alternative.

 

[GTV6]

Re: A6 v 5 series

For the driver's car, I would pick the Fiver simply cos it's a RWD with lots more fun, balance and composure in handling. The in-line six is hard to beat in refinement. The gremlins and quirks add to the fun!

For hassle free motoring, the A6 may be more commandable? Then again it's a re-badged VW sharing common parts bin with Skoda, Seat or maybe even Proton in the future??

 

[zag]

Re: A6 v 5 series

Well, if its gadgets you want, it would have to be the GS....

In my opinion, the A6 is a beautiful car. Inside and out. The main gripe I have with the car is the road noise intrusion. Other than that, I would disagree with you guys that the interior is 'horrible'.

The 5 is nice but I don't really agree with its i-Drive concept.... Not that friendly to use. Also, the interior ain't that nice. Simplistic, zen, whatever you wanna call it, but it just doesn't cut it for a near $200k car. However, saying all that, once you drive it, all is forgiven, it has the best feel of the lot in the class.

I have been deciding over a GS, A6 and the 5.... still undecided. I also agree that PA makes way too much on their cars but you can't help but agree that there is hardly any complaints about PA's aftersales service. PML is the direct opposite.

I currently drive an A4 and it hasn't given me much problems at all. Servicing is in the under $400 range. Plus their customer service executives are very friendly.

But even with this, the 5 series is still at the top of my list. If you mostly drive, and don't mind if your car isn't that reliable or bad aftersales service, then the 5 is the best choice.

Otherwise, maybe the GS would be a very good alternative.

i-drive on the bimmer is no brainer and it will serve its purpose once the convergence of telematics start to take place. i-drive is very simple to use. I still can't figure out why all the journalist reviewers in the world pick bones with it. look at other marque, they have jumped to i-drive concept one way or another.

you are right.. the five's interior is not the luxurious looking one, well as you wrote, the drive feel is what matters most!

if there is one ideal car out there it will be called "Bimercxus"
chassis and handling by BMW; interior design by Merc and manufacturing by Toyota lexus plant. sold by ...well who cares.. the car is so reliable! right?

 

[TheNew7]

Re: A6 v 5 series

i-drive on the bimmer is no brainer and it will serve its purpose once the convergence of telematics start to take place. i-drive is very simple to use. I still can't figure out why all the journalist reviewers in the world pick bones with it. look at other marque, they have jumped to i-drive concept one way or another.

you are right.. the five's interior is not the luxurious looking one, well as you wrote, the drive feel is what matters most!

if there is one ideal car out there it will be called "Bimercxus"
chassis and handling by BMW; interior design by Merc and manufacturing by Toyota lexus plant. sold by ...well who cares.. the car is so reliable! right?

What I meant about the i-Drive is the 5's one is not as nice to use as the 7. In my opinion, I prefer the 7's i-Drive over the 5. What is this about sharing the Nav and Climate (correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember exactly which modes)? The 7 has a 'cleaner' feel.

Also, when they launched the 5 series, Active Steering was all the rage. They have now removed it from the 523 and 525. Is it actually that revolutionary a feature that it is now obscure?

I don't know whether its true but someone from PML told me that the 525 is more reliable than the 523.... Is this true? Anyone can confirm?

 

[TheNew7]

Re: A6 v 5 series

i-drive on the bimmer is no brainer and it will serve its purpose once the convergence of telematics start to take place. i-drive is very simple to use. I still can't figure out why all the journalist reviewers in the world pick bones with it. look at other marque, they have jumped to i-drive concept one way or another.

you are right.. the five's interior is not the luxurious looking one, well as you wrote, the drive feel is what matters most!

if there is one ideal car out there it will be called "Bimercxus"
chassis and handling by BMW; interior design by Merc and manufacturing by Toyota lexus plant. sold by ...well who cares.. the car is so reliable! right?

What I meant about the i-Drive is the 5's one is not as nice to use as the 7. In my opinion, I prefer the 7's i-Drive over the 5. What is this about sharing the Nav and Climate (correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember exactly which modes)? The 7 has a 'cleaner' feel.

Also, when they launched the 5 series, Active Steering was all the rage. They have now removed it from the 523 and 525. Is it actually that revolutionary a feature that it is now obscure?

I don't know whether its true but someone from PML told me that the 525 is more reliable than the 523.... Is this true? Anyone can confirm?

 

[KT]

Re: A6 v 5 series

IMO, the thing about car journalists is that sometimes they are too caught up in the old-school driving that anything servo-assisted, be it steering, break, shift, etc, it would consider as not natural or lacks the feel.

It is the case for iDrive, same criticism on the active steering and I am sure more will come.

As a consumer and driving under 'normal' condition 80 to 90% of the time, I think these new technologies actually helps.

 

[mistraele]

Re: A6 v 5 series

im not so sure about that. ive fiddle with idrive. and it seems like a pain in the ass to me.

 

[eggz]

Re: A6 v 5 series

What I meant about the i-Drive is the 5's one is not as nice to use as the 7. In my opinion, I prefer the 7's i-Drive over the 5. What is this about sharing the Nav and Climate (correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember exactly which modes)? The 7 has a 'cleaner' feel.

Also, when they launched the 5 series, Active Steering was all the rage. They have now removed it from the 523 and 525. Is it actually that revolutionary a feature that it is now obscure?

I don't know whether its true but someone from PML told me that the 525 is more reliable than the 523.... Is this true? Anyone can confirm?

Active steering is great, love it! But the problem is the loading, you really need a 3l or larger engine in order that it doesn't feel like overloading the engine.

On the new E90 330i, it's even better, more feel and very precise (could be because it's on a smaller car though), I think BMW has improved AS quite a bit from the intial E60 launch.

In fact with the new CIP software updates on the E60s, I can tell that the active steering has improved. It took them a while to get it right on the E60, but with the latest 19.x version, it's great, just the right ratios at different speeds, and enough feel to sense understeer and correct oversteer.

 

[UG]

Re: A6 v 5 series

I have test driven the A6 and 520 (not the 523). Comfort wise, guess the 5 series is better as compared to the A6. Somehow the road noise insulation is not very good on the A6.

Ride quality, the 5 is more nimble as compared to the A6. I guess you will feel every nook and crany on the road with the A6.

Build quality. A6 wins hands and pants down I love the A6 build quality, not to say the 5 is not good, but A6 have the genuine teutonic feel. As for instrument cluster, I prefer the A6. The MMI is also quite good as compared to i-drive. But guess if the i-Drive have that many buttons as compared to the A6, than I-drive will be good to use too

Exterior wise. The A6 is pretty, slap on a body kit and it looks real cool. I love the single big grille in front. seen the A8 in transporter? If not see it, real cool. The 5 is nice from the front. But simply I guess too many on the road.

Just went to sgcarmart, and already have at least 3 523 on sale...makes me wonder Singapore sure have a lot of rich man...or the 3 are lemon cars...

 

[hwong]

Re: A6 v 5 series

Just a commoner's view of mine.
I have not ridden or driven both cars, but in my personal opinion,
when I look at the new Audi and BMW, my heart goes out for BMW.
I have a feeling that BMW seems to be superior and more prestigious than Audi.
Just reiterating, that is how I feel, nothing to do with BMW forums too.
No offence to Audi fans.