BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

[Racebred]

Hope this doesnt distract us from the ongoing prep and signup for our March 6 Sepang track day. But I just wanna do a straw poll here, how many people here are interested to pop by Pasir Gudang for a track day sometime soon, (between 2 of our Sepang dates)?

Just for the sake of tracking at a different layout.

There are many things one can learn at a track like PG. So it's good for overall fun and learning. Cost will be around half. PG's charging 18000rm for a full 8 hr day, meaning for a 4-hour track day, we need to only collectively stump up 9000rm. I'm not sure if our usual 40 car limit will be too overcrowdy in a smaller track. Perhaps we can cap at 25 to 35 cars or so.

At 30 cars, the cost price will be 300rm per car. There are, of course, the standard pros and cons.

Comments? Inputs? This is purely a value added service, just an idea from me. My thinking is, we should go out and try out the malaysian tracks as much as we can now, for when the spore track opens, and more people are unwilling to drive up to msia for track days, we may find it impossible to organise any more PG/SIC track days simply because we cannot muster the critical mass to make the cost sensible. And when that era comes, we will have even less of a chance to track at PG.

 

[kuvesh]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

sounds like a interesting idea to me, especially since i have never tracked there before and closer than sepang...

some comments i have heard from people about the track include:

(i) more suited to bikes
(ii) more technical track than sepang
(iii) not that suitable to high power cars
(iv) relatively more dangerous including some blind corners
(v) hard on the tires

Would be useful (at least for me) if someone could help shed some light on the above

 

[KWY91]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

I'm very interested to get more track exposure! Definitely Count me in!

 

[dazza]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

I'll give it a go!!

 

[totoseow]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

i thnk its a unforgiving track....but more suitable for our cars. sepang is too big n u spend a lot of time waiting for corners...better for high powered cars.

PG has little to no one offs. when it rains u get rivers running across the back straights .. tough on tires...

 

[opvaulet]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

Driven around PG during heavy rain recently. Did not experience water pooling. When dry this track is very hard on tires...but that's not unusual. I agree it's a fun track for our mostly road going cars.

 

[Racebred]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

Well, PG is built as a bike circuit, but its also suitable for road car use. It's a shorter track with less corners, but in my opinion is less technical. Once you get your lines right, really right, PG becomes pretty one-dimensional. The road surface is harsher, so is harder on your tyres. But unless you are going all-out, driving at the very limits, tyre-wear is still acceptable. Being a smaller track, the run-offs are not as wide as sepang. Every corner has its own acceptable run-off area, but if you go off in an odd way or uncommon direction, you can hit the wall, just as you can in Sepang. When it rains, you adjust your driving accordingly, just as you will anywhere else. I'm not sure about how serious the ponding is, so we'll have to see. You do not need high powered cars in PG, which will be welcoming for a lot of members here, and high powered cars cannot get too fast too. The usual 1 to 2 sigma spread is probably around 20 sec difference, which levels out everyone, for the benefit of fun.

See the idea is not to go there and max out your car on the first day (as with any track actually). Its to give us some variety in track layout, have some fun, and gradually improve your timing as your familiarity improves with the track. Once you have really mastered the lines, and should the track become boring for all of us, we can always stop going there. I'm thinking, we can go to PG regularly, until the spore track opens. Having the experience in mastering different layouts can also be beneficial for us understanding the new spore track. As usual, I (and others willing here) can be around to help with the lines and show whats a good benchmark timing to grade your car to.

We just have a few major points to consider here:

1) max car limit? I'm really not sure here... 30? 35? 40? For our own crowd factor comfort.
2) Shares the same budget pool as our current track day fund? (BMWSG PG track day is also non-profit.) If we consider our current fund to be a BMWSG track fund, rather than a SIC track fund, then we can comfortably go cost-to-cost here in PG. Which is 9000rm for 4 hours on a weekend. If we run into a loss (not enough participants) can we dip into this reserve?
3) Do you guys think it will cannibalise attendance for our 5 SIC track days which we have already booked and committed our club to?

 

[Shaun]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

To me, PG is more technical, more fun than SIC. The turns come up quicker, so there's less waiting, greater camber to the turns, curbs with some real elevation to them, sharper elevation changes in the road, blind turns needing more mental discipline, surface that really punishes overuse of steering, greater number of close linked turns that force even lower power car drivers to think more. Have to use all the features to be efficient. SIC feels open and like there are many lines to take but reality is the general race line already is narrow, and going down to a line specific to a certain class of car only narrows that line further.

IMO, PG only becomes one dimensional if not pushing above 95%, pushing for time - which is probably the better roadcar approach to take given the lack of run off. A more extreme example is autocross - narrow and lower speed, but highly technical, huge and sudden load transfers, sharp inputs in quick succession.... but of course it has the advantage of no walls..

Typically even decent roadcar drivers are typically further off the best references in the same car at PG vs SIC. Some 2+% at SIC vs 5+% at PG, same cars, same month, all mid engined RWDs, no aids. I attribute this to PG being more technical and risky. One example T2 PG has speeds just shy of T3 SIC (quickest turn overall at both tracks), but the difference is those corner speeds at PG are reached in only ~3 sec from lateral onset, arriving at high speed and decelerating followed by and blending with turning, whereas SIC T3 you're leaning on the lateral for ~9 sec entering a very long T3 at low speed and filling out the lateral with gas.. much more stable state. Then compare the amount of runoff at T3 SIC vs T2 PG. Not just less runoff but lower quality runoff (no asphalt runoff, long grass instead of fake grass, uneven wet sand instead of relatively level gravel, etc.)

I think drivers who have driven SIC fairly hard will do ok at PG because they've recovered from superlimit situations at SIC and aren't likely to repeat the same mistakes at PG which is unforgiving. If you're a new driver and not really sure of your level of car control or self control, try and run at least one trackday at SIC first before trying PG. If you're very sure you can keep discipline and always stay at least a little sub limit, then you'll definitely enjoy PG.

Think 25 is already pushing capacity - also in the pits. Booking the whole track on weekends is one way, but you can also try weekdays.. it's like your own private track...almost always completely empty. And each driver can pay by individual hour - very low cost.

 

[Shaun]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

One time in 2010 there were actually about 5 guys strolling around cutting the grass with those petrol powered weedwhacker things, walking within 12 feet of the track while about 5 cars were tracking. Management said they told them not to cut while cars are out there, but that they just don't listen.. then business as usual and they were still out there! Horning at them didn't go anything they just paused and stared hahah.. I have a video of it somewhere...

 

[Shan19]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

Gentlemen,
I am interested , count me in , Just got my E90 323i . Never tried an auto gearbox in track before.Need to learn how my stock babe handles before I upgrade any necessary stuff.
Regards,
Shan
97645169

 

[TripleM]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

it sounds fun...will suit my little hatch

 

[Elite]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

Sounds like a job for the E88

Shaun -- You got the PBox start / stop split for PG ?

 

[totoseow]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

yes datalogger face has PG splits

 

[stanch]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

we have been quoted RM5,400 for the exclusive use of Johor Circuit at Pasir Gudang on a weekend afternoon between 2 - 5. But thats in 2007.

PG corners are tighter, slower speed corners and the track is more technical, with up/down hill.
tyre wear @ PG vs sepang for me is ok, if u factor in the 300Km+ trip, toll, time, etc u need to make before reaching sepang.
PG's run off is definitely much lesser than sepang, its a smaller, shorter track.
Not true that high powered cars cant enjoy PG, i feel its how fast u can get up to ur power band.

 

[Racebred]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

we have been quoted RM5,400 for the exclusive use of Johor Circuit at Pasir Gudang on a weekend afternoon between 2 - 5. But thats in 2007.

PG corners are tighter, slower speed corners and the track is more technical, with up/down hill.
tyre wear @ PG vs sepang for me is ok, if u factor in the 300Km+ trip, toll, time, etc u need to make before reaching sepang.
PG's run off is definitely much lesser than sepang, its a smaller, shorter track.
Not true that high powered cars cant enjoy PG, i feel its how fast u can get up to ur power band.

5400 for 3 hours is a good price. That's 7200rm for 4 hours. That's lesser than the 9000rm quote. I shall try to push for 2007 prices see if can. $1 discount is $1 saved.

Let's take conservative price and participation numbers. 9000rm over 25 cars is 360rm. If we can muster 25 cars who are willing to pay up to 360rm (before discount, if any), then we can start putting together this track day. idea?

 

[stanch]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

PG has open track day specials 2 sundays a month. I cant rememeber the exact track fees they charge, but its around Rm140 per car or driver for 3 hrs, usually 2 to 5pm. There will be alot of sg cars on these track day specials, and a few stripped out malaysian offroad sagas.

Normal days would be about Rm70 per hr.

Not intended as a bench mark for BMWsg organised track fees, i guess PG's management has different marketing strategy vs Sepang's. That could be also the reason why alot of car clubs are unsuccessful in organising trackdays in PG.

 

[Racebred]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

dude, open trackdays and closed trackdays are completely different.

 

[stanch]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

dude, open trackdays and closed trackdays are completely different.

Yes, totally agree with you on that.

Just tot I share what i know of PG. I enjoy tracking in PG, and will support this club's effort if my schedule permit.

 

[Shaun]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

One of the benefits of paying by hour at PG is that you can run for an hour, then stop for an hour in which to rest and hydrate, apply a setup change, look at your data, etc. before heading back out to drive again. You get more done at the track, at a lower cost and less stress from time pressure.

 

[harold996tt]

Re: BMWSG Pasir Gudang track day, anyone?

One of the benefits of paying by hour at PG is that you can run for an hour, then stop for an hour in which to rest and hydrate, apply a setup change, look at your data, etc. before heading back out to drive again. You get more done at the track, at a lower cost and less stress from time pressure.

Interesting. This may just be the thing to get me back into tracking.... but I heard a lot of scary stuff about PG, and would really be taking it at 4/10ths to start. Shaun, maybe you come up with me for this session then- at least I can learn the track faster.... I will use the Evo.

Shawn... count me in.

Shawn and Shaun, please one of you change your names!!! hahaha