Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

iScoupe;405224 said:
FP, Ken loves his car, u can see he is not gonna sell it with so much "mod" he burn into his 335, he just want to know the handling whether can it be enhance as maybe he feels that the driver's weight is not proper distributed.

He probably needs to bring it back to the 50:50 weight distribution but very hard so must work on suspension to compensate. Maybe he saw Edwin balancing the M3 well, now he wants to be like Edwin but refuse to give up his twin turbos.
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

iScoupe;405224 said:
FP, Ken loves his car, u can see he is not gonna sell it with so much "mod" he burn into his 335, he just want to know the handling whether can it be enhance as maybe he feels that the driver's weight is not proper distributed.


Haha..You are on your own man.:lol2:
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

fiercepink;405229 said:
He probably needs to bring it back to the 50:50 weight distribution but very hard so must work on suspension to compensate. Maybe he saw Edwin balancing the M3 well, now he wants to be like Edwin but refuse to give up his twin turbos.

satinGHOST|r!der;405245 said:
Haha..You are on your own man.:lol2:
no la, there is a woman with me..

& i decide not to go BVO service my car tomolo hahahaha...
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

fiercepink;405229 said:
He probably needs to bring it back to the 50:50 weight distribution but very hard so must work on suspension to compensate. Maybe he saw Edwin balancing the M3 well, now he wants to be like Edwin but refuse to give up his twin turbos.

Oi...!!!
How come i suddenly kenna drag into this? Ha ha...

But seriously, Omar is right about the chassis. I've never driven the 335 on a long term basis, but I've had sufficient time behind the wheel to make some comparision.

One difference is the existence of the EDC. Another is the balance of the car as a whole. The handling of the car is more than the sum of it's parts.

But as the title of this thread says "bridging" the handling gap. If the purpose is to "bridge" the gap, then the mods will certainly bridge it. But "match" - unlikely...

I'm game to try out Andre's 70-80% theory... Let's figure out test parameters, then go for a trial run...

cheers
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

centurion;405146 said:
Singapore M3 E92 spec has adaptative suspension which is quite magical. How does one replicate that without the proper ECU?

edlms;405274 said:
One difference is the existence of the EDC.

Exactly. 335 will never match unless transplant of these two technologies and tuning to the 335 specifics (masses, inertias, tires, kinematics, etc.) is carried out. It takes a lot of know how to do that and it is difficult to access teams that can do it for you properly. If you do locate such a team, the money it will cost for their time will be more than the difference you would pay to buy the M3 to start with. If you're the first person truly attempting it with a good team, money spent might be able to buy 2 or 3 M3s when all is said and done. Especially considering there is no pro equipment or testing grounds locally for this sort of thing.

Let's figure out test parameters, then go for a trial run...
Quantitative test processes and results are disputed enough.. what more qualitative tests by biased testers? Besides, these days there's almost no part of the car that needs to be left to qualitative testing since it all is supposed to be measured in any serious test, regardless if its ride, handling, NVH, etc.
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

Well harshness has to do with human perception so it is qualitative, but even then you need double blind tests.. certainly not biased owners of the tested models hahah
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

Shaun;405277 said:
Well harshness has to do with human perception so it is qualitative, but even then you need double blind tests.. certainly not biased owners of the tested models hahah

true... but should be fun to see if the "testers" can come up with a consistent rating of how much "percentage" Andre's handling is compared to the M.

cheers
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

think by now, the bridging already done.... a happy Kenntona.
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

With the help of Fuzzy and Ah Wee, I have swapped my front control arms, front wishbones, regulator rod, strut brace and rear subframe mountings with those on the E92 M3. Car's alignment all off after that. Went to Kian Teong for a long alignment session. Running front neutral, negative 2 degrees camber, rear toe-in 8 minutes each side, negative 1.5 degrees camber. Will try some hard cornering tomorrow with my JIC Cross 8/8 settings. FR pending......

These are the stock parts that were removed......

AA_Suspensions.JPG
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

ECU mods aside...
I dont think the car manufacturer spend crazy time creating the M3 so much so that by throwing in the best aftermkt parts into a 335 could bring you close to the M3 drive.
My thinking/understanding being that the M3 was developed to work as a whole, and not independent parts making a huge difference. Eg. Handling as a whole was tuned to work in harmony with the weight distribution, balance, power delivery thru the revs, speed and even traction etc at all times. Hence the M3 is a car made to work as a unit and not dependent on solely a few components.
By throwing in harder susp and tightening the roll certainly enables the 335 to corner better and remain steady on the straights but does it give a balance at all times? Another note... I recall a 335 owner saying his car was stuck on a MSCP slope and couldnt move becoz 1 wheel was off the ground, that alone is proof that the aftmkt parts aint working together with the car, i swear Omar would drive his M3 through the PML showroom if that ever happened to his stock car.
I seriously doubt Blistein, JIC or KW ever went that deep into such fine details, and i dont think they actually worked with the makers of aftmkt ARB makers. Its like mixing milo & vodka and expecting the greatest cocktail. I think most ppl do feel its a good cocktail, because they do feel the much improved handling, but if ever put to the sword with computers and what not, i dont think it can close the handling gap far enough.
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

Thats why I say, dont mod yr 335. Just drive it stock so that in case u got problem, u can go back to PML to cliam warranty. If u want M3 handling with Twin Turbo power, wait another 7 years for the new ///M3. Or if stock market recovers n u are long(trading terminology, not anatomy), then a TT ///M5 would be good.

be beng, be stock !
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

Buy M3 and throw in 3TT engine lo!!
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

Pui Hia

FR please!
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

FR: My objective was to eradicate as much as possible the shortcomings on handling post performance mods. After all, there is a limit as to where the ZF can take, on an end on the torque band above 600 nm. But the previous problem of rear end wobbling on corner-in and corner-out was the biggest headache of all....

So I undertook the following changes:

- From Bilstein PSS9 to JIC Cross with 8/10 kg/mm linear springs
- Quaife ATB LSD
- H&R Sway Bars
- M3's Front Strut
- M3's Front Control Arms(tension struts/wishbones)
- M3's Rear Subframe Bushing/Mounts

Previously, on PSS9, the car squats and bottomed out whenever I take off from stationary. Besides, it excerbated the understeering problem, and did not help the rolling issue. Mid-corners I can feel that the springs are too soft. To solve it, I need better spring rates / linear springs ...... either the KW CS or the JIC Cross.....

With the new set-up, corner-in and corner-out, the car felt tight and planted. JIC Cross has a pillow ball upper mount for camber adjustment. Cornering-in, the grip and the LOW REAR REBOUND erased that wobbling feeling. Cornering-out, the high compression at the rear kicks in, and the squating feeling is gone. To be fair, with the M3's control arms mods, the JIC camber plate's negative 2 degrees adjustment is overlapped, but still, the car felt so much tighter than before. Now I am waiting for the rear arms......

Of course, I reckoned it is still far far away from the M3's chassis and set-up, but one would still need to improve on. A pariah will remain a pariah, far away from a pedigree, but the pariah is trying to play catch-up. Toto say one.
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

good FR...now can u speak english?
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

totoseow said:
good FR...now can u speak english?
In short, not so tua kee in size, but hardness is improving.........
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

while the hardness is improving, ensure you improve the stamina oso...MW advises one
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

ya gotta hit the track, kenn, it's MUCH easier and cheaper to evaluate there. You'll see what works and what doesn't even within a lap, and within 3 you'll see what breaks and what doesn't. If you're building a perfect 335, you owe yourself a good test. There'll be no shortage of learned brothers who will give probably uniform opinions.

Yes the PSS9 is rather soft in low speed corners but I don't think there's anything bad about that, it's OK in the higher speed T3 for example, absorbing the small bumps.
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

Kenntona,

Excellent FR, but yr JIC Cross spring rates are 10/12 I think according to my hiadee's information.
 
Re: Bridging Handling Between the E92 M3 and E92 335

Ahbengdriver said:
Kenntona,

Excellent FR, but yr JIC Cross spring rates are 10/12 I think according to my hiadee's information.
Yeah, I think you are right. Keep mixing up with the 8/8 settings.

Ai race mai?
 

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
82,747
Messages
1,019,309
Members
78,039
Latest member
pg88comim
Back
Top