buying 323?
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Re: buying 323?
Hahaha! Salesman from Borneo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why? Came in to tell people about how the IS 250 can beat a 323 in the twisty bits just lke what the ST writer said today is it?
Don't bother lah, no freakin way IS can beat BMW in the bends ok?
Cheers!
IS250 said:-edited by ryan-
..
Hahaha! Salesman from Borneo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why? Came in to tell people about how the IS 250 can beat a 323 in the twisty bits just lke what the ST writer said today is it?
Don't bother lah, no freakin way IS can beat BMW in the bends ok?
Cheers!
Re: buying 323?
First of all, I am not this IS250, or Lexus salesman, or whoever he is. Just so happen that he chose a nic that is so very close to mine.
OK, that cleared ... I currently own the IS200 and E60 523i.
I can tell you that having test driven the E90 323i (and I did not end up buying it, preferring to keep my IS200 and get a larger BMW instead) ... IMHO the 323i's handling at the bends is not very far off from my IS200 and I am sure the IS250's is at least on par with the BMW, in spite of Christopher Tan's concluding in his ST review that in some instances, the IS250 would even leave the 323i trailing.
Its to no surprise to me really, since the original IS was built with the E36 in mind. Now in many BMW 3er-only compario reports, the E36's handling has been rated much better than the E46. And the E90's handling sits somewhere in-between the E36 and E46.
Having read both Winton Lee's and Christopher Tan's reviews in ST on the E90 vs IS250, I tend not to take any strong exception to what they have printed. Let's face the fact that the 3-er may have finally met its ultimate nemesis. Now both these gentlemen cannot be so wrong about the same car, can they?
TobyNik said:
First of all, I am not this IS250, or Lexus salesman, or whoever he is. Just so happen that he chose a nic that is so very close to mine.
OK, that cleared ... I currently own the IS200 and E60 523i.
I can tell you that having test driven the E90 323i (and I did not end up buying it, preferring to keep my IS200 and get a larger BMW instead) ... IMHO the 323i's handling at the bends is not very far off from my IS200 and I am sure the IS250's is at least on par with the BMW, in spite of Christopher Tan's concluding in his ST review that in some instances, the IS250 would even leave the 323i trailing.
Its to no surprise to me really, since the original IS was built with the E36 in mind. Now in many BMW 3er-only compario reports, the E36's handling has been rated much better than the E46. And the E90's handling sits somewhere in-between the E36 and E46.
Having read both Winton Lee's and Christopher Tan's reviews in ST on the E90 vs IS250, I tend not to take any strong exception to what they have printed. Let's face the fact that the 3-er may have finally met its ultimate nemesis. Now both these gentlemen cannot be so wrong about the same car, can they?
opvaulet
Well-Known Member
Re: buying 323?
My E34 was the car that showed the world BMW brand had finally arrived and was taking Mercs head on.They were very different, but competed in the same segment, offering different values to customers. Having now driven the IS250 against the E90 and C-klasse, I predict the IS will do the same for the Lexus brand what BMW achieved over 15 years ago. For me, all three brands have different things to offer, and for a complete experience I would love to have one of each! In 1989, I thought to myself the three pointed star brand finally met its match. It has happend again. This time to the blue roundel. I would be a happy owner of any of these top cars; the only difference being that amongst the contenders in this segment there is now a formidable new choice. And I am sure it will steal conquest sales from the next segment down, the fwd cars like Saabs, Volvo, Audi, as well poeple who aspire upwards from the usual Japanese cars to the premium (conti rwd) segment.
My E34 was the car that showed the world BMW brand had finally arrived and was taking Mercs head on.They were very different, but competed in the same segment, offering different values to customers. Having now driven the IS250 against the E90 and C-klasse, I predict the IS will do the same for the Lexus brand what BMW achieved over 15 years ago. For me, all three brands have different things to offer, and for a complete experience I would love to have one of each! In 1989, I thought to myself the three pointed star brand finally met its match. It has happend again. This time to the blue roundel. I would be a happy owner of any of these top cars; the only difference being that amongst the contenders in this segment there is now a formidable new choice. And I am sure it will steal conquest sales from the next segment down, the fwd cars like Saabs, Volvo, Audi, as well poeple who aspire upwards from the usual Japanese cars to the premium (conti rwd) segment.
Mark_Twain
Well-Known Member
Re: buying 323?
My opinion..... for the drive and new look, buy 323!
IS pricing is indeed cheaper.... but Mark X even cheaper leh.....
Saw quite a lot of new 3 series on the road liao.... very chio! Still feel the look is so much better!
So if you got the budget, go and do a test drive!
BTW, didn't get to see what our favourite IS salesman wrote before Ryan deleted the post.... wasted. My fault for not logging on for the past few days!
My opinion..... for the drive and new look, buy 323!
IS pricing is indeed cheaper.... but Mark X even cheaper leh.....
Saw quite a lot of new 3 series on the road liao.... very chio! Still feel the look is so much better!
So if you got the budget, go and do a test drive!
BTW, didn't get to see what our favourite IS salesman wrote before Ryan deleted the post.... wasted. My fault for not logging on for the past few days!
Re: buying 323?
The Mark X and the IS250 are different cars altogether. Built on a different platform, transmission, different chassis, body panels, instrumentation, light clusters, NVH insulation etc. The only thing they might share is the 2.5L V6 engine. Don't think we can compare on cost alone, as it would be like comparing an Audi and a VW equivalent (e.g. an A3 2.0 FSI vs a Golf 2.0 FSI). Both are from the same manufacturer (VW-AG), sharing the same engine, but are not the same car. However, in the Audi-VW example, at least they share the same platform.
I believe there was a deliberate attempt by Toyota, since the point when it officially launched the Lexus brand in Japan in 2005, to segregate the 2 marques substantially enough. I guess with time, that divide will become more significant. From a business standpoint, I think it is just inevitable, if Toyota wants to raise the benchmark, perceived or otherwise, in its 'relentless pursuit' of developing the Lexus brand beyond what it already is today.
On that point alone, I respect this Japanese company for giving the world a strong contending alternative in the luxury and performance car segments. Gaining from their (and Honda's) strong push / return to Formula-1 racing, and getting to the podium more often than not these days - even displacing the Ferraris, BMWs and Mercedes teams at times, I think the world can only benefit from the Japanese re their rapid advancement in engine design and reliability improvements.
As for looks, I think we are in a very subjective area here. To each his own, I would say.
I recall Winston Lee in his IS250 review 2 weeks ago having said that when parked side by side, he thinks the IS250 will take the honours for looks from the 3-er.
The Mark X and the IS250 are different cars altogether. Built on a different platform, transmission, different chassis, body panels, instrumentation, light clusters, NVH insulation etc. The only thing they might share is the 2.5L V6 engine. Don't think we can compare on cost alone, as it would be like comparing an Audi and a VW equivalent (e.g. an A3 2.0 FSI vs a Golf 2.0 FSI). Both are from the same manufacturer (VW-AG), sharing the same engine, but are not the same car. However, in the Audi-VW example, at least they share the same platform.
I believe there was a deliberate attempt by Toyota, since the point when it officially launched the Lexus brand in Japan in 2005, to segregate the 2 marques substantially enough. I guess with time, that divide will become more significant. From a business standpoint, I think it is just inevitable, if Toyota wants to raise the benchmark, perceived or otherwise, in its 'relentless pursuit' of developing the Lexus brand beyond what it already is today.
On that point alone, I respect this Japanese company for giving the world a strong contending alternative in the luxury and performance car segments. Gaining from their (and Honda's) strong push / return to Formula-1 racing, and getting to the podium more often than not these days - even displacing the Ferraris, BMWs and Mercedes teams at times, I think the world can only benefit from the Japanese re their rapid advancement in engine design and reliability improvements.
As for looks, I think we are in a very subjective area here. To each his own, I would say.
I recall Winston Lee in his IS250 review 2 weeks ago having said that when parked side by side, he thinks the IS250 will take the honours for looks from the 3-er.
Re: buying 323?
Thought Mark X share the same engine and wheelbase as the IS and GS?
Anyway, IS250 and Mark X are different in many ways like you said though they are both having the same wheelbase, engine, company, jap made, etc. In fact, the interior of the Mark X seems nicer (IMO), just that the headlights a little unique.
Same goes to IS250 and BMW 3 series. They are different in all aspects and don't think we should compare just based on pricing.
I remember people used to choose between a Mercs and a Lexus previously when Lexus was competing with the Mercs in terms comfort and quiet drive. For the price, some will buy a Lexus. For the brand and the towkay image, no way for Lexus. Mercs still keep that.
Sames goes to BMW today. For the price, maybe a Lexus, a Mark X, or an Accord. But for the image and drive, think BMW will still be the choice, assuming price is not a consideration.
Thought Mark X share the same engine and wheelbase as the IS and GS?
Anyway, IS250 and Mark X are different in many ways like you said though they are both having the same wheelbase, engine, company, jap made, etc. In fact, the interior of the Mark X seems nicer (IMO), just that the headlights a little unique.
Same goes to IS250 and BMW 3 series. They are different in all aspects and don't think we should compare just based on pricing.
I remember people used to choose between a Mercs and a Lexus previously when Lexus was competing with the Mercs in terms comfort and quiet drive. For the price, some will buy a Lexus. For the brand and the towkay image, no way for Lexus. Mercs still keep that.
Sames goes to BMW today. For the price, maybe a Lexus, a Mark X, or an Accord. But for the image and drive, think BMW will still be the choice, assuming price is not a consideration.
althaus
Well-Known Member
Re: buying 323?
Never tried the 323i before but comparing the 320i and the Lexus IS, I would still get the 320i because:
1) Nicer steering feel to the 3 series. You will appreciate the BMW's steering far better after driving the IS.
2) The E90 looks way better than the Lexus IS, outside and inside (subjective)
3) Something about practical driving on the road that just differentiates the way it drives, can't explain this....Feels like the BMW is still more 'fun' to drive.
4) The Lexus has really lousy wing mirrors and steering wheels.
Then when you compare the 323i, I don't think there's any more need to compare.
The Lexus wins only in:
1) Car seats, the seats in the IS is way better, like the ventilated seats.
Never tried the 323i before but comparing the 320i and the Lexus IS, I would still get the 320i because:
1) Nicer steering feel to the 3 series. You will appreciate the BMW's steering far better after driving the IS.
2) The E90 looks way better than the Lexus IS, outside and inside (subjective)
3) Something about practical driving on the road that just differentiates the way it drives, can't explain this....Feels like the BMW is still more 'fun' to drive.
4) The Lexus has really lousy wing mirrors and steering wheels.
Then when you compare the 323i, I don't think there's any more need to compare.
The Lexus wins only in:
1) Car seats, the seats in the IS is way better, like the ventilated seats.
opvaulet
Well-Known Member
Re: buying 323?
Went to test drive the IS again today. Its different to a BMW, but also highly accomplished. I would rank both equal, though with different strength and weaknesses. Its like comparing Astras and Focus......Focus handles great, but actually slightly nervous at speed, Astra slighly less communicative, but rock solid at speed etc,etc..... i love the bimmers, particularly the way they drive, handle and ride, and has more space, but i also like how quiet the IS is, its terrific engine, the attention to detail and its enviable owner satisfaction record. I love my e34, and the e34 is still for me the car that made BMW stand shoulder to shoulder with MB. My bet is the IS will do the same for Lexus. Time will tell.
Went to test drive the IS again today. Its different to a BMW, but also highly accomplished. I would rank both equal, though with different strength and weaknesses. Its like comparing Astras and Focus......Focus handles great, but actually slightly nervous at speed, Astra slighly less communicative, but rock solid at speed etc,etc..... i love the bimmers, particularly the way they drive, handle and ride, and has more space, but i also like how quiet the IS is, its terrific engine, the attention to detail and its enviable owner satisfaction record. I love my e34, and the e34 is still for me the car that made BMW stand shoulder to shoulder with MB. My bet is the IS will do the same for Lexus. Time will tell.
michaeltan
Banned.
Re: buying 323?
an active discussion which I participated in is here:
http://forum.carma.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1228903
love to post the discussion here here but there's so much.
an active discussion which I participated in is here:
http://forum.carma.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1228903
love to post the discussion here here but there's so much.
michaeltan
Banned.
Re: buying 323?
LOL! I hope I do not sound too stridently anti-BMW. I'm not. I hold BMW to a higher standard because of all the hype surrounding it. The brand halo around BMW is too strong - most people give too much credit to BMW and credit it more than it deserves. As an equalizer, I feel the need to counter that.
LOL! I hope I do not sound too stridently anti-BMW. I'm not. I hold BMW to a higher standard because of all the hype surrounding it. The brand halo around BMW is too strong - most people give too much credit to BMW and credit it more than it deserves. As an equalizer, I feel the need to counter that.
vanilla707
Well-Known Member
Re: buying 323?
I'm a E90 owner and I was equally curious with the hype around the launch of IS250. I was down at the showroom last week to have a look at the beauty. Few comments I have to make about buying a Lexus. First, I really think that Borneo Motor should have at least relocate their premium marque to another location just like the way the Germans separate Mini and BMW. The two brands are distinctly marketed to different set of consumers. The 'feel good' effect of buying an expensive car was not there.
Secondly, the car aesthetics didn't appeal to me. I do agree its subjective. Love the interior and I was in love with the plush leather seats with air ventilators. The instrumentation was stunning and well placed. The exterior was a little disappointing. I liked the front bonnet but the rear does reminds me of the Mazda 6. Further, the case model does not come with anti-dazzle mirrors, rain sensors, (not sure about the light sensors though).. All these little gadgets was surprisingly missing and I didn't feel that it was up to the mark in the luxury category. Of course, one can always add another $10k for the 18" rims, xenon lights..and alot more goodies.
Last, drive feel for BMW is to me more engaging and more enjoyable as a driver's car.
I'm a E90 owner and I was equally curious with the hype around the launch of IS250. I was down at the showroom last week to have a look at the beauty. Few comments I have to make about buying a Lexus. First, I really think that Borneo Motor should have at least relocate their premium marque to another location just like the way the Germans separate Mini and BMW. The two brands are distinctly marketed to different set of consumers. The 'feel good' effect of buying an expensive car was not there.
Secondly, the car aesthetics didn't appeal to me. I do agree its subjective. Love the interior and I was in love with the plush leather seats with air ventilators. The instrumentation was stunning and well placed. The exterior was a little disappointing. I liked the front bonnet but the rear does reminds me of the Mazda 6. Further, the case model does not come with anti-dazzle mirrors, rain sensors, (not sure about the light sensors though).. All these little gadgets was surprisingly missing and I didn't feel that it was up to the mark in the luxury category. Of course, one can always add another $10k for the 18" rims, xenon lights..and alot more goodies.
Last, drive feel for BMW is to me more engaging and more enjoyable as a driver's car.
Guitar77
Member
Re: buying 323?
My dad use IS200 I use 318i....
I dont like his car and he dont like my car. hahaha
I find his car road holding and handling not so good. Fast pickup but noisy maybe due to the sport exhaust.
He dont like my 318i because he find it heavy and pickup slow. I love my 318i because is a dman steady car... I am clocking 200,000km soon! 3 CHEERSS!!! :juggle:
I AIMING FOR a 325i MANAUAL....if LIFE IS GOOD.... :woowooo:
My dad use IS200 I use 318i....
I dont like his car and he dont like my car. hahaha
I find his car road holding and handling not so good. Fast pickup but noisy maybe due to the sport exhaust.
He dont like my 318i because he find it heavy and pickup slow. I love my 318i because is a dman steady car... I am clocking 200,000km soon! 3 CHEERSS!!! :juggle:
I AIMING FOR a 325i MANAUAL....if LIFE IS GOOD.... :woowooo:
