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Car Sales... There once was a time...

jaymzjr

Well-Known Member
There was a time....
.... when selling direct between forummers, between direct owners....

.....meant reasonable prices and levels short of what u can get in the market... amicable deals where buyers pay a little more than dealers' prices.... and sellers gained in this manner. sellers also gain in knowing their cars are sold to a fellow forummer who shares his enthusiasm...

Of late, and perhaps in the past year... i have been absolutely flabbergasted by 'forummers' who have been less than truthful with their selling prices. sure, u can try, but within a forum?

i may not be an active contributor, neither am i a current bmw owner, but having been around from the days where car groupies started with gatherings (when internet forums weren't exactly born yet), i feel i just have to say this...

Buyers, pls do your homework and beware. i can understand some pple lowball, but to see the consistency of those trying to 'High-ball' their way around has been an absolute revelation that the forum spirit is pretty much lost.

maybe it's time an actual dealer enthusiast get invited to the forum panel to Input an arbitrary fair value for any car being advertised. Else it's been an absolute sham to see some early 2009 cars actually try to make a gain of 50-60k purely from the current coe value. it's fine and dandy to do so on sgcarmart... But to do this on a forum for enthusiasts certainly goes against the spirit of the very existence.

my apologies to those selling their cars here who may feel offended, it is not in my intention to offend sellers, but to protect ignorant buyers who let down their guard and trust too easily simply becos they are buying from a 'fellow forummer'. i'm not here to sow distrust either... but seriously... Just do your homework.

buyers beware....
 
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Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

Hey jaymzjr,

Thanks for the feedback - we will be implementing a buyer/seller trading rating system for all individual members as well as site sponsors alike within the week. Seems like our forum has gotten lately popular for more members to try funny things online.

This rating system will allow for greater transparency as well as members to provide peer-to-peer reviews of each other when doing transactions/deals with without having to close threads/allow needless ranting to continue. This will be applied to not just individuals but to site sponsors alike.

Just a sneak preview on what it's about in the attached website below.

On a sidenote, I'd also like to thank fellow member, Niva for his contributions to the forum. He sent a really good P.M with some great suggestions - owe you a beer Niva!

Screenshot captured from e90post.com.
Original link - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum (E90post membership/login required)

If anyone has better suggestions/feedback - feel free to provide it. We'll look to providing and improving the platform for all the rest of the forum members.
 
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

wow....very ebay...i like....can leave negative feedback for buyer like ebay??
more admin work for your team ryan...haha

ryan;673760 said:
Hey jaymzjr,

Thanks for the feedback - we will be implementing a buyer/seller trading rating system for all individual members as well as site sponsors alike within the week. Seems like our forum has gotten lately popular for more members to try funny things online.

This rating system will allow for greater transparency as well as members to provide peer-to-peer reviews of each other when doing transactions/deals with without having to close threads/allow needless ranting to continue. This will be applied to not just individuals but to site sponsors alike.

Just a sneak preview on what it's about in the attached website below.

On a sidenote, I'd also like to thank fellow member, Niva for his contributions to the forum. He sent a really good P.M with some great suggestions - owe you a beer Niva!

Screenshot captured from e90post.com.
Original link - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum (E90post membership/login required)

If anyone has better suggestions/feedback - feel free to provide it. We'll look to providing and improving the platform for all the rest of the forum members.
 
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

We can always adopt a system like arofantics.com. Alvin (puny) should be able to advice on it.
 
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

sszone;673802 said:
wow....very ebay...i like....can leave negative feedback for buyer like ebay??
more admin work for your team ryan...haha
Im not sure about the buyer - but let me check on this :)
 
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

Steven - feedbacks allowed for both buyers and sellers, not prospective buyers and sellers. If for prospective buyers and sellers, it will be in a mess, especially non-forumers on SMS cases.

I think certain intricacies must be exposed too. I have seen certain vendor X getting forumers to check prices with another vendor Y, only to undercut Y's prices upon knowledge on Y's prices. Y only get to know after forumer's numerous enquiries but ended up buying from X.......... and the same cycle continues with another forumer, and another forumer......

This "fake" enquiry also happened when I was selling my ride.... dealers pretending to be forumers......
 
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

Rating summary........... if shown for buyers aka forummers....
I dun think the sellers will rate them "LOW BALLERS"..... even the buyer really low ball them............. :thinking:
 
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

hi ryan,

appreciate the reply. it's good to see things coming in place as the forum grows... used to be simpler in the past i guess... i know it's not a thankful job.

my main concern has always been car prices which tend to be a rather huge outlay for most parties in our local environment... fair and arbitrary prices between forummers, as enthusiasts. It's hard to weed out as prices Are opinions which vary... but i guess If forums are used to sell - then we have to at least protect buyers in a certain way. or weed out 'overpriced' sellers.

i know it is an opinion, and i know it is my opinion too. but having seen some prices being advertised, i can honestly state that it is not very 'forummy, enthusiast-to-enthusiast' sort of levels expected. nobody likes to seel cheap, but the least we can do is sell within certain acceptable levels... thus i was suggesting perhaps someone in place just to weed-out overly-high prices. again, this may be a thankless job, or in fact a hated-figure. i guess perhaps, we could create a culture of pointing out when we feel prices aren't right, and allow a justification process.

anyway i started this thread as an Awareness. just for buyers to beware... there's actually much ignorance in car-buying, it's ok if the deal are done out there... but in forums i tend to feel abit disappointed, since pple tend to let their guard down abit and feel safe within such online communities.

Oh ya, for the "One-Time Hitters" whereby u just do 1 huge transaction like a car... as a one-time seller... the ratings will not come in handy. but having it is better than not.

again, appreciate your reply man. Cheers!
 
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Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

Actually how do you rate someone as a highballer? Its easy to rate a lowballer cos its clear cut but not so for people who sell high.

There may be many different reasons why people are selling high and its up to the prospective buyer whether or not he or she wants to buy or not. In the end, the highballing seller never gets his stuff sold anyway. For example I PMed a forummer on the sale of a set of rims which he was selling at $3k + tyres when I could get the same set at $2200 + tyres from an outside rim shop. I highlighted this to him and his reply was "Maybe you should get it from tat shop then…"

Fair reply what. The last I know, someone actually bought it from him at $2800 after negotiation. Still $600 more expensive than the rim shop but both buyer and seller happy. So how do we rate this Seller? "Kuai Lan" or "Good Businessman"?
 
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

my main focus is on car prices. just to re-iterate... cos those can be rather huge amounts with longterm loans taken, so the impact doesn't just end with the extra $500-600 u overpay.

(corrected - bold undelined)
 
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Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

I know jaymzjr and I am with you on highballing sellers but my point is if the prospective buyer sees a car he likes very much and the market does not have something close or similar, he will take into account time, money, effort and "heart" put into modding the car (as opposed to a stock car). If he is ok with the "high" price then I believe its not really "unethical" of the seller to highball so to speak. Of cos if its very lightly modded (like installing strut brace) or stock and the seller uses the high COE climate as leverage to sell high then he should be struck by lightning and then fed to the dogs.
 
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

MW;674009 said:
I know jaymzjr and I am with you on highballing sellers but my point is if the prospective buyer sees a car he likes very much and the market does not have something close or similar, he will take into account time, money, effort and "heart" put into modding the car (as opposed to a stock car). If he is ok with the "high" price then I believe its not really "unethical" of the seller to highball so to speak. Of cos if its very lightly modded (like installing strut brace) or stock and the seller uses the high COE climate as leverage to sell high then he should be struck by lightning and then fed to the dogs.

Hahaha, fed to the dogs!

I fully agree with ya but its tricky as the issue of being expensive or reasonable is relative as different individuals base their judgments on different yardsticks.
 
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

haha yes of cos... those very special indents, limited editions like the IWC Merc CLS55, sunroofs, panaromic roofs, etc etc... obviously that's where the value can be to the car. 100% agree. i'm a panaromic sunroof freak and i do pay premiums for those, no doubts worth abit more... or with some of the supercars, your ceramic brakes and chrono or sports exhausts etc etc....
 
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

jaymzjr;674029 said:
haha yes of cos... those very special indents, limited editions like the IWC Merc CLS55, sunroofs, panaromic roofs, etc etc... obviously that's where the value can be to the car. 100% agree. i'm a panaromic sunroof freak and i do pay premiums for those, no doubts worth abit more... or with some of the supercars, your ceramic brakes and chrono or sports exhausts etc etc....

Sometimes if you are free, you should just surf sgcarmart for fun. Just scroll through some car dealers' cars which are obviously "highballing" and then you see the description to justify the "high" price…"Full options, very rare and lady driver used only for going shopping and spa only" and its a toyota vios and you realise the "full options" are leather seats and 15" rims. Simi lan

I do know of ONE forummer who actually "lowballed" his own car sale and most of the replies were farking him for that. I wun mention names but its Kenntona's 335
 
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

MW;674035 said:
I do know of ONE forummer who actually "lowballed" his own car sale and most of the replies were farking him for that. I wun mention names but its Kenntona's 335

Actually i dun see it as Kenn low balling his own car sales.... i nvr notice how much he's selling during that time (i poor man.. how cheap i also cannot afford) but i think he sold at a reasonable price and thats y it's SOLD off within few days...

Example.... i ever asked a friend of mine who's driving the same car as me... why you are selling so cheap??? Spoil market???

sgcarmart - 3 x 2002 Nissan selling around S$45k - S$55k each.
My friend selling his 2003 Nissan @ S$40k.....

My friend replied....... "That's y you can see they are STILL selling in sgcarmart".... l0lxxx
 
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Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

MW;674035 said:
Sometimes if you are free, you should just surf sgcarmart for fun. Just scroll through some car dealers' cars which are obviously "highballing" and then you see the description to justify the "high" price…"Full options, very rare and lady driver used only for going shopping and spa only" and its a toyota vios and you realise the "full options" are leather seats and 15" rims. Simi lan

dun get me started on the descriptions... some are absolutely hilarious!

u have the usual Doctor's 2nd car, and then u see 20k mileage clocked...
u have the usual Director's car used only from home to office with the same high mileage (obviously chauffeur drove all over spore)...
u have female teacher owner, u have the "buy now before it's gone" with a price3 10k over mkt, and all sorts of funny descriptions...

oh i love the latest they're using for properties... "Almost Sold" and they declare the price it's going for... walau if i'm the buyer who gave that offer, i'll be so royally pissed... haha

oh oh, and i absolutely love "be the envy of all on the road when u drive..." something like that... super classic.
 
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

MW said:
I do know of ONE forummer who actually "lowballed" his own car sale and most of the replies were farking him for that. I wun mention names but its Kenntona's 335
It depends how you assess the selling price.

The price difference between my 335 and PML's 335 was over $40K. I spent a tad more of this amount on mods. OMV difference between two cars is $14-15K.

I sold my ride at $20K depre, same as PML's car one year newer than mine.

Buyers who look at the absolute price tag says it was cheap, cause they factored in mods. Many forgot that my ride was a PI model without some features like comfort access and idrive. All of a sudden, PI cars are treated the same as PML's car.

Buyers who look at depre to ten will say it is fair, or expensive vis-a-vis PML's car of the same age.

Did I lowball or highball myself ?

I bought cheap, and I tried selling high, but still perceived to be cheap !!! There is simply no proper valuation model in this .......
 
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

jaymzjr;674076 said:
u have the usual Doctor's 2nd car, and then u see 20k mileage clocked...

Ya I don't get the part about "doctor owner" - what's the relevance? He throws in free health screening? :screwedu:
 
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

To show that he very rich and change cars like underwear so his "loss is your gain".
 
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...

Willing seller, willing buyer. Forummers who high ball will still get low ball offers. Forummers who low ball themselves will kena even lower ball offers. The farking classic will be the brylcreen car dealers that claim that your car is so nice that they wanna buy it for their own drive etc.

This is an enthusiast forum. If a proper enthusiast were to sell his car here, it should be expected it is in better condition, well taken care off, and has mods that complement the car. In fact, if an enthusiast or regular member here sells the car, there is nothing to hide as you can do a search on all postings and follow the dates, happenings, mods, problems etc of that particular car!

For such a car to be advertised along to the bread and butter stuff in SGcarmart that is owned by a tai tai or a car-idiot that just does treats it as a mode of transport - is a waste.

And honestly, for a nicely done up enthusiast car to be traded in to the dealers at market price (low ball dealer price) and dealer to high ball it after thrashing around for few days, or selling off some parts for pocket money - the car just ain't worthy anymore and becomes a common "commodity" piece out there.

BTW, there are dealer cars out there that are "special" and are high balled on pricing. But what if you can can get a 20-30k discount (depending on price of car lah, not talking about a 100k car) if you're truly serious and willing to issue a 10k cheque upfront? Again, willing seller and willing buyer lor.
 

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