-
Classifieds Rules
For Sellers - Item Listing Requirements:
1. List your price. *
2. Show/attach images/photos of item. *
3. Provide clear contact instructions (List phone number, email or PM). **Required.
4. Private Sales Only.
5. Relevant items only.
6. No Indirect Advertising / Promoting Of Other Services and Companies
7. Only members with 20 posts and more can start new threads
8. No Thread Hijacking. Start your own Topic.
9. Post only 1 Topic per sale. No cross-posting in other forums. No bumping of Topics more than once a day.
10. Close your Topic after sale has been completed. (Click 'Administrative' on top of your thread for closing options)We will remove threads if they do not list the above requirements.
For Buyers:
1. Caveat Emptor - Before buying from user, do your homework. Check out the person's posting history, number of posts etc.
2. This is a service we provide free and for the members convenience - we're not responsible for any deals gone bad.For everyone else:
1. No OT. They will be deleted. If you continue despite us warning you, we will ban you from the classifieds completely.
2. Report all suspicious sellers. If you've seen or come across them from other boards/forums - do report them immediately - it will help everyone here a great deal.Report all bad experiences (for both sellers/buyers) on the Buyer/Sellers forum.
Car Sales... There once was a time...
- Thread starter jaymzjr
- Start date
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...
$30K above paper value. Hmm.. no wonder my friend 6.5 yrs old E60 selling at $55K, paper at $48K+6.5K body value suddenly all the dealers rush like mad want to see car and wants to buy over phone without viewing. Luckily, I bought my 5 yrs old E60 56K mileage at paper + $18K body value only. After I close the deal with my friend, he was saying dealers keep calling him until his mobile almost go kaboom. Fully paid the car and intend to drive till scrap. Now itchy backside looking at 07/08 2nd car C180 or C200, wonder can get low baller offer since all asking $100K+ now. Just miss a low baller close to 6yrs old SLK200 at $85K, big regret, loan all approved and backout from direct seller deal, dealer all asking $100K+ now. It's a willing buyer/seller market and I certainly believe there are distress sale out there. Just be patient, but pls do not low baller a 2007 C180/200 and tell the owner I offer your car paper+body + $10K in today's market
iScoupe;675582 said:
$30K above paper value. Hmm.. no wonder my friend 6.5 yrs old E60 selling at $55K, paper at $48K+6.5K body value suddenly all the dealers rush like mad want to see car and wants to buy over phone without viewing. Luckily, I bought my 5 yrs old E60 56K mileage at paper + $18K body value only. After I close the deal with my friend, he was saying dealers keep calling him until his mobile almost go kaboom. Fully paid the car and intend to drive till scrap. Now itchy backside looking at 07/08 2nd car C180 or C200, wonder can get low baller offer since all asking $100K+ now. Just miss a low baller close to 6yrs old SLK200 at $85K, big regret, loan all approved and backout from direct seller deal, dealer all asking $100K+ now. It's a willing buyer/seller market and I certainly believe there are distress sale out there. Just be patient, but pls do not low baller a 2007 C180/200 and tell the owner I offer your car paper+body + $10K in today's market
Last edited by a moderator:
jaymzjr
Well-Known Member
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...
there are still some decent sales going around that's fair to both buyer and sellers... of cos still have some 'steals'. one of the pple here is selling his 325 at a pretty fair level... i've been pushing to my frens cos i think it's a good deal.
some cars abit seasonal... can go very high, and suddenly drop. i rem abt 3yrs ago... the body value of the toyota Vios suddenly went up to double figures... for that 3-4weeks, was telling my fren to sell sell sell. i guess it's a mix of local and overseas export market. my Lexus RX300 BMR commanded as high as 29k for body at one stage... then dropped back down to 22k... and i sold it at the next high when the body suddenly went up again.
i guess info is the main thing here, needed to avoid misunderstandings and ill-feelings. if we're aware, and so are buyers/sellers then it's pretty fair. of cos if pple dun do their homework and pay too much or sell too low... i guess that can't be stopped.
personally, i would simply avoid 1half 2009 cars selling based on current new car prices... the disparity between COEs is as much as 60k. i would rather have a high COE in such case.
there are still some decent sales going around that's fair to both buyer and sellers... of cos still have some 'steals'. one of the pple here is selling his 325 at a pretty fair level... i've been pushing to my frens cos i think it's a good deal.
some cars abit seasonal... can go very high, and suddenly drop. i rem abt 3yrs ago... the body value of the toyota Vios suddenly went up to double figures... for that 3-4weeks, was telling my fren to sell sell sell. i guess it's a mix of local and overseas export market. my Lexus RX300 BMR commanded as high as 29k for body at one stage... then dropped back down to 22k... and i sold it at the next high when the body suddenly went up again.
i guess info is the main thing here, needed to avoid misunderstandings and ill-feelings. if we're aware, and so are buyers/sellers then it's pretty fair. of cos if pple dun do their homework and pay too much or sell too low... i guess that can't be stopped.
personally, i would simply avoid 1half 2009 cars selling based on current new car prices... the disparity between COEs is as much as 60k. i would rather have a high COE in such case.
Satine
Well-Known Member
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...
On the flip side, I received a call some time back from a very antagonistic and rude potential buyer...demanding that I reduce the price of my car. I calmly retorted, "if you are really interested, view the car first and If you are serious, we can negotiate". He kept going on and on and on about how he is a Bimmer follower and knows a lot about BMs...blah blah blah.
How do you even appraise or peg a price to a car without seeing it? Or even consider it expensive when it is priced lower than most of the ones on sale? I guess there really is not definite way...
On the flip side, I received a call some time back from a very antagonistic and rude potential buyer...demanding that I reduce the price of my car. I calmly retorted, "if you are really interested, view the car first and If you are serious, we can negotiate". He kept going on and on and on about how he is a Bimmer follower and knows a lot about BMs...blah blah blah.
How do you even appraise or peg a price to a car without seeing it? Or even consider it expensive when it is priced lower than most of the ones on sale? I guess there really is not definite way...
Satine
Well-Known Member
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...
Well, you get what you give. There's enough hate to go around already in this small world.
Well, that took the cake for me, along with the fact the the deal with a confirmed buyer fell through bcos of his loan/money problem. Just too much hassle for a family man...
Well, you get what you give. There's enough hate to go around already in this small world.
Well, that took the cake for me, along with the fact the the deal with a confirmed buyer fell through bcos of his loan/money problem. Just too much hassle for a family man...
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...
ok, let's face it, as buyers, we wanna get the best out of the deal, low price, decent milege, good service records, problem free car, etc..... but as sellers, we wanna sell as close to whatever dealers r selling, diregarding the above mentioned. well, in fact, i had offers ( for 523XL i was looking for) at prices higher than dealers from fellow forummers, comparing this n that, but in fact, i have viewed a number of this car, mostly stock condition (both from owners n dealers) n most dealers r in fact willing to knock off quite a big amount from the advertised prices. ask around n u will know how much dealers r taking in n by offering $5k to $8k more than what dealers offer imo, is not lowballing.... it's a win-win situation. but some r asking too high a price, which is:screwedu:
i had recently advertised my modded civic at an unbelievable low price for forummers/ direct buyers n yet i get lowballed to knock off another $3k. finally, decided to de-mod n sell to dealer at a very heavy loss (comparable to 523 depreciation) n now they r selling at $10k above what they got from me.
what i m trying to say is it is merely a guide to see how much others r advertising, the actual transaction prices usually will be much lower, so if u think u can sell higher than the advertised price, ur car need to have something outstanding, maybe free gal with it??
ok, let's face it, as buyers, we wanna get the best out of the deal, low price, decent milege, good service records, problem free car, etc..... but as sellers, we wanna sell as close to whatever dealers r selling, diregarding the above mentioned. well, in fact, i had offers ( for 523XL i was looking for) at prices higher than dealers from fellow forummers, comparing this n that, but in fact, i have viewed a number of this car, mostly stock condition (both from owners n dealers) n most dealers r in fact willing to knock off quite a big amount from the advertised prices. ask around n u will know how much dealers r taking in n by offering $5k to $8k more than what dealers offer imo, is not lowballing.... it's a win-win situation. but some r asking too high a price, which is:screwedu:
i had recently advertised my modded civic at an unbelievable low price for forummers/ direct buyers n yet i get lowballed to knock off another $3k. finally, decided to de-mod n sell to dealer at a very heavy loss (comparable to 523 depreciation) n now they r selling at $10k above what they got from me.
what i m trying to say is it is merely a guide to see how much others r advertising, the actual transaction prices usually will be much lower, so if u think u can sell higher than the advertised price, ur car need to have something outstanding, maybe free gal with it??
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...
the norm for dealers is to makan around 10k off the selling prices like what u see on sgcarmart.
the 10k is to factor in their holding costs, car refurbishment costs, financing cost, risks etc, not to mention the discount potential buyers would be asking for. end of the day, they also need to earn so gotta be fair to them.
buyers on the other hand, pls dun expect to lowball and buy at this 10k off market prices, few ks difference maybe still possible.
sellers would need to be realistic, prices on sgcarmart are only indicative.....it doesn't mean that cars are getting sold at that price, most cars end up unsold after months of ads on sgcarmart. so do be mentally prepared to self-decide on the discount threshold that u are willing to bear in order to get the car sold.
thats my personal take on this.......different ppl different views anyway...keke
the norm for dealers is to makan around 10k off the selling prices like what u see on sgcarmart.
the 10k is to factor in their holding costs, car refurbishment costs, financing cost, risks etc, not to mention the discount potential buyers would be asking for. end of the day, they also need to earn so gotta be fair to them.
buyers on the other hand, pls dun expect to lowball and buy at this 10k off market prices, few ks difference maybe still possible.
sellers would need to be realistic, prices on sgcarmart are only indicative.....it doesn't mean that cars are getting sold at that price, most cars end up unsold after months of ads on sgcarmart. so do be mentally prepared to self-decide on the discount threshold that u are willing to bear in order to get the car sold.
thats my personal take on this.......different ppl different views anyway...keke
jaymzjr
Well-Known Member
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...
yeah agree with 'relaxed'. there's a fine line but the line isn't that fine to the point where some basic discretion and homework won't do the trick.... and being on BOTH sides a good many times, we KNOW roughly what we can get versus what we wanna get... If we get something in the middle, i would say it's a fair level.
i just feel abit perturbed when some pple try to bank on others' ignorance and pull a fast one... particularly in Forums where there's abit more 'trust' weightage compared with a totally commercial platform. trying at a dealer's advertised selling price + extra... is not an amicable level.
there's advertised selling price (sgcarmart), there's the actual price dealers will BUY-IN the same car... and somewhere in the middle or above the buy-in price - would be where your base-rate for negotiation should begin.... then perhaps u can include your goodies & mods at 30-40% from new-price - if the other party appreciates those.
as for lowballers... they are impt too, becos they offer us an absolutely-no choice option for the absolute base price. of cos i would like to exclude unintelligent lowballers who offer below scrap price lah...
yeah agree with 'relaxed'. there's a fine line but the line isn't that fine to the point where some basic discretion and homework won't do the trick.... and being on BOTH sides a good many times, we KNOW roughly what we can get versus what we wanna get... If we get something in the middle, i would say it's a fair level.
i just feel abit perturbed when some pple try to bank on others' ignorance and pull a fast one... particularly in Forums where there's abit more 'trust' weightage compared with a totally commercial platform. trying at a dealer's advertised selling price + extra... is not an amicable level.
there's advertised selling price (sgcarmart), there's the actual price dealers will BUY-IN the same car... and somewhere in the middle or above the buy-in price - would be where your base-rate for negotiation should begin.... then perhaps u can include your goodies & mods at 30-40% from new-price - if the other party appreciates those.
as for lowballers... they are impt too, becos they offer us an absolutely-no choice option for the absolute base price. of cos i would like to exclude unintelligent lowballers who offer below scrap price lah...
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...
There is actually a logical process to this:
For a seller, he first have to establish a base fair value for his car, based on an average depre number on other cars of the same model, similar age and OMV/COE figures. Add slight premium if mileage is truly way lower than average. Ditto with car conditions. However, these premium numbers will decrease with age of car.
For modifications, add 30-50% of cost. This is subjective. For instance, mods like big brake kits are more valuable than bodykits - you can strip out and liquidate far easier than aesthetic mods owing to the utility value.
So, a ballpark figure, fair valuation based on depre + premium on mileage/conditions if any + mods = "reasonable" offer price
Here comes the qualitative part. If the ride is not "liquid", or not common, then the valuation band could be wider, and the bids may be further down. But for common models, and you will know it, the prices can be deemed fair as you would see it all in the market. The toughest part is to price in room for negotiation, knowing that you will likely transact at MID price. So you adjust the offer prices slightly higher. Subjective and qualitative again. Too high and you will be labelled "SEOW". But if you allow for negotiations, a deal can still be struck.
For a buyer, he will try to buy below market average depre. In cases like a well maintained low mileage car, the buyer simply gotta understand that it might not be done. Pay average depre, get average car. The seller has to disclose as much merits and details as possible to the buyer to empower him to make the decision. Afterall, if he is really keen, and the (fair value + conditions + mods) is worth it, he will bite.
There is actually a logical process to this:
For a seller, he first have to establish a base fair value for his car, based on an average depre number on other cars of the same model, similar age and OMV/COE figures. Add slight premium if mileage is truly way lower than average. Ditto with car conditions. However, these premium numbers will decrease with age of car.
For modifications, add 30-50% of cost. This is subjective. For instance, mods like big brake kits are more valuable than bodykits - you can strip out and liquidate far easier than aesthetic mods owing to the utility value.
So, a ballpark figure, fair valuation based on depre + premium on mileage/conditions if any + mods = "reasonable" offer price
Here comes the qualitative part. If the ride is not "liquid", or not common, then the valuation band could be wider, and the bids may be further down. But for common models, and you will know it, the prices can be deemed fair as you would see it all in the market. The toughest part is to price in room for negotiation, knowing that you will likely transact at MID price. So you adjust the offer prices slightly higher. Subjective and qualitative again. Too high and you will be labelled "SEOW". But if you allow for negotiations, a deal can still be struck.
For a buyer, he will try to buy below market average depre. In cases like a well maintained low mileage car, the buyer simply gotta understand that it might not be done. Pay average depre, get average car. The seller has to disclose as much merits and details as possible to the buyer to empower him to make the decision. Afterall, if he is really keen, and the (fair value + conditions + mods) is worth it, he will bite.
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...
I do not think there will ever be a "fair" price and I agree with Ken that each car is different and you can never have a chart to do statistical comparisons.
I agree Sellers want to get the best value (read: Highest price) while Buyers want to get the lowest price. The purpose of this thread is more about "forum sellers" rather than dealers so I will keep my comments to that level.
I am also trying to sell my car, although not actively so since I do not know what to buy next anyway and other reasons...
Many potential buyers have said my asking price is too high. Yes its high but I justified to them why...
1. Mods done and which are genuine stuff. (I will just stop listening if someone tells me mods are useless, very personal thing blah blah)
2. Physical care for the car (many reference points with LIVE forummers who know me vs dealers' unconfirmed claims of their cars being in MINT condition)
3. Change of MANY wear and tear parts (some of which are big ticket items which will set you back thousands of dollars)
4. Engine and mechanical reliability (this one is abit tricky but I am very fussy even if there is a minor rattling sound and I change or go straight to my workhop to check)
"Yeah right", I hear you say.."what's so special about the above? I also do it and but I don't sell the high price you are looking at??"
My view vs yours. Who's right and who's wrong?
If I cannot sell the car at the price I feel comfortable and I know I will feel like sh*t if I sell it away at that price, I might as well don't sell it. If the buyer feels he really likes it but its too high, he can always walk away and buy from another seller...there are so many out there. Why fail to get from me and then you go around slandering me that I am a bastard etc etc??? Case of sour grapes or genuine feedback of "non bro" behavior from me?
I do not think there will ever be a "fair" price and I agree with Ken that each car is different and you can never have a chart to do statistical comparisons.
I agree Sellers want to get the best value (read: Highest price) while Buyers want to get the lowest price. The purpose of this thread is more about "forum sellers" rather than dealers so I will keep my comments to that level.
I am also trying to sell my car, although not actively so since I do not know what to buy next anyway and other reasons...
Many potential buyers have said my asking price is too high. Yes its high but I justified to them why...
1. Mods done and which are genuine stuff. (I will just stop listening if someone tells me mods are useless, very personal thing blah blah)
2. Physical care for the car (many reference points with LIVE forummers who know me vs dealers' unconfirmed claims of their cars being in MINT condition)
3. Change of MANY wear and tear parts (some of which are big ticket items which will set you back thousands of dollars)
4. Engine and mechanical reliability (this one is abit tricky but I am very fussy even if there is a minor rattling sound and I change or go straight to my workhop to check)
"Yeah right", I hear you say.."what's so special about the above? I also do it and but I don't sell the high price you are looking at??"
My view vs yours. Who's right and who's wrong?
If I cannot sell the car at the price I feel comfortable and I know I will feel like sh*t if I sell it away at that price, I might as well don't sell it. If the buyer feels he really likes it but its too high, he can always walk away and buy from another seller...there are so many out there. Why fail to get from me and then you go around slandering me that I am a bastard etc etc??? Case of sour grapes or genuine feedback of "non bro" behavior from me?
.
jaymzjr
Well-Known Member
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...
it's gonna be hard to gauge to the exact... to me it's more an integrity issue which only the individuals themselves will know.
MW is right in pointing out that The purpose of this thread is more about "forum sellers"... cos honestly i can't tell who is in the biz, who is not, who is bro, who is not... but from the specs/mileage/mods/etc etc - we all have our own assessment... BUT it's not hard to gauge overly priced ones and sorta 'pulling a fast one', or in hokkien i call it "po tai ko"... selling with a hope of striking lottery... and then until last minute no takers - end up sell to dealers at 10-15k below advertised price. this should include pple who Want/Need/Have To sell... not the explorers.
fair enough sellers wanna get the best value, but this should also be a FAIR value based on mkt IF the forum platform is used, isn't it? when i wanna sell high, i simply use brokers... and Not the forum. Same should apply when i wanna buy... if i wanna buy low or low-ball - i try it with the dealers or brokers. IF i wanna buy a forummer's car i will not think twice offering Above dealers' price cos i would not be getting dealer's price in any case.
if your car depreciates 20k/yr new... then trying to hang on to a car over 5-10k difference of ideas would be a personal risk u take. we have to bite the bullet sooner or later cos eventually, we all change cars... i'm always in the mkt to buy or sell, change my cars etc... if i buy low, chances are - i have to sell low. if i buy high, chances are i get to sell higer too.
recently u see alot of 1half 2009 cars selling at current prices... Well, we know 1h 09 - COEs were dirt cheap... i have a problem with cars registered during this period - quoting Today's prices as a basis of Value. between a 60k COE and a 7k COE, the 50k differential cannot be ignored... unfotunately, some will try to knowingly take advantage of the ignorant buyers. well, Dun Do It in the Forum, thru the Forum.
anyway, maybe it's a personal problem... i have issues with the typical sporean behaviour of acting blur and hoping to get away with it.
it's gonna be hard to gauge to the exact... to me it's more an integrity issue which only the individuals themselves will know.
MW is right in pointing out that The purpose of this thread is more about "forum sellers"... cos honestly i can't tell who is in the biz, who is not, who is bro, who is not... but from the specs/mileage/mods/etc etc - we all have our own assessment... BUT it's not hard to gauge overly priced ones and sorta 'pulling a fast one', or in hokkien i call it "po tai ko"... selling with a hope of striking lottery... and then until last minute no takers - end up sell to dealers at 10-15k below advertised price. this should include pple who Want/Need/Have To sell... not the explorers.
fair enough sellers wanna get the best value, but this should also be a FAIR value based on mkt IF the forum platform is used, isn't it? when i wanna sell high, i simply use brokers... and Not the forum. Same should apply when i wanna buy... if i wanna buy low or low-ball - i try it with the dealers or brokers. IF i wanna buy a forummer's car i will not think twice offering Above dealers' price cos i would not be getting dealer's price in any case.
if your car depreciates 20k/yr new... then trying to hang on to a car over 5-10k difference of ideas would be a personal risk u take. we have to bite the bullet sooner or later cos eventually, we all change cars... i'm always in the mkt to buy or sell, change my cars etc... if i buy low, chances are - i have to sell low. if i buy high, chances are i get to sell higer too.
recently u see alot of 1half 2009 cars selling at current prices... Well, we know 1h 09 - COEs were dirt cheap... i have a problem with cars registered during this period - quoting Today's prices as a basis of Value. between a 60k COE and a 7k COE, the 50k differential cannot be ignored... unfotunately, some will try to knowingly take advantage of the ignorant buyers. well, Dun Do It in the Forum, thru the Forum.
anyway, maybe it's a personal problem... i have issues with the typical sporean behaviour of acting blur and hoping to get away with it.
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...
Hi guys, just an input of my humble opinion;
i'm looking for a unit of 320i as well and i definitely see the various views via the esteem perspectives, still i do feel that i'm way off to buy from a direct seller, reason being i would rather you tell me the woes and various cons i'll see soon or rather the "best sales man award" honesty is hard to come by, but it does mean more to me than a price tag, just an average joe here fulfilling his dream in a 50% attitude.
because v8 4L is very different from IL4 2L. i'm looking at a history, not status nor concerned about how people look at me. until i get verified, i'm unable to post my wanna buy thing....
seriously, if emotions has a price tag, then the consideration will be really epic. But still... just being rationale here, no offence intended, cheers and have a good one.
regards,
Gary
Hi guys, just an input of my humble opinion;
i'm looking for a unit of 320i as well and i definitely see the various views via the esteem perspectives, still i do feel that i'm way off to buy from a direct seller, reason being i would rather you tell me the woes and various cons i'll see soon or rather the "best sales man award" honesty is hard to come by, but it does mean more to me than a price tag, just an average joe here fulfilling his dream in a 50% attitude.
because v8 4L is very different from IL4 2L. i'm looking at a history, not status nor concerned about how people look at me. until i get verified, i'm unable to post my wanna buy thing....seriously, if emotions has a price tag, then the consideration will be really epic. But still... just being rationale here, no offence intended, cheers and have a good one.
regards,
Gary
Re: Car Sales... There once was a time...
I read your post thrice and I still do not know what you are talking about...
Garyzxtan;695330 said:Hi guys, just an input of my humble opinion;
i'm looking for a unit of 320i as well and i definitely see the various views via the esteem perspectives, still i do feel that i'm way off to buy from a direct seller, reason being i would rather you tell me the woes and various cons i'll see soon or rather the "best sales man award" honesty is hard to come by, but it does mean more to me than a price tag, just an average joe here fulfilling his dream in a 50% attitude.
seriously, if emotions has a price tag, then the consideration will be really epic. But still... just being rationale here, no offence intended, cheers and have a good one.
regards,
Gary
I read your post thrice and I still do not know what you are talking about...
