Comments from Alignment Shop

[Ahbengdriver]

Hiadees, true or not huh? Heres what the bloke says

1. BMWs have natural negative camber for non staggered tyre set up. The reason is provide more grip for RWD. But if got staggered with wider rear tyre, then no need negative camber. In fact negative camber slow down the car.

2. BMWs like Porsche need to have toe-in for front n rear tyres. Else when you WOT, the car will swing sidewards if too much power is launched from the rear. Esp important is front toe in.

So my question is :
in a staggered say 18inch set up with 225/255, no need negative camber at all?

also, how true is this toe thing.

do stock BMWs come with toe in and rear neg camber always?

 

[kenntona]

Re: Comments from Alignment Shop

1. The key words are (1) cornering (or straight?) and (2) "excessive". 1 degree negative is fine on the rear. If you take the straights all the time, the best camber setting is zero angle, at least in theory. But when you handle the corners, front negative camber (say 2 degrees) gives you much better contact patch area grip.

2. Toe-in for rear only. Toe-out will oversteer the RWD car excessively. For FWD cars with torque steer, the ride might be tuned slight toe-out to compensate for understeering. On yours, front should be neutral (or slight toe-out for sharper steering feel). Too much front toe-in can induce understeering on the ride.

Do a -2 front -1 rear on camber, and a neutral front, slight toe-in rear for toes settings and try it out.

 

[C3P0]

Re: Comments from Alignment Shop

Sorry for OT, ABD, where did you go for alignment, can recommend or PM? Thanks.

 

[TripleM]

Re: Comments from Alignment Shop

1. From my observation, there's always some sort of -ve camber from factory set up, be in staggered on non staggered.
yes -ve camber at there rear gives you more grip. Does it slow down the car a bit? A tad...but -ve camber makes the car alot more stable at high speed.
personally, i think it's more beneficial to have -ve camber at the rear. Our roads have turns everywhere, so somehowe naturally the tire wears can even out themselves a bit. The question is how much is considered appropriate...

It's not entirely wrong with the idea of having lesser camber on bigger wheels set up esp with larger diameter. They are more sensitive in terms of yielding grip result compared to smaller wheels. So yes, for big wheels, u dont hv to dial as much.

Then u intro the scenario of lowering the car, and what happens? -ve camber goes up...undesirable coz too much? Maybe....how do u correct it?
Re do your allignment. For a more track oriented car set up, often we see rear control arm installed to correct this.

2. In theory that works...having toes in make the car slower. It's the same thing as when you are ski-ing. you form / \ on your feet to slow you down. But that is in the straight!!.......What happens when you are cornering especially on higher speed turns? So, i think ideally...neutral toes for road driving.
Slight toe out in the front and rear toe in for track set up. Makes a huge difference here.

do stock BMWs come with toe in and rear neg camber always?

I think neutral toes all round and -ve camber at the rear. And it's always more than the front.

 

[Mockngbrd]

Re: Comments from Alignment Shop

Camberz? (sorry, cldn't help it)

 

[Greentea]

Re: Comments from Alignment Shop

1. From my observation, there's always some sort of -ve camber from factory set up, be in staggered on non staggered.
yes -ve camber at there rear gives you more grip. Does it slow down the car a bit? A tad...but -ve camber makes the car alot more stable at high speed.
personally, i think it's more beneficial to have -ve camber at the rear. Our roads have turns everywhere, so somehowe naturally the tire wears can even out themselves a bit. The question is how much is considered appropriate...

It's not entirely wrong with the idea of having lesser camber on bigger wheels set up esp with larger diameter. They are more sensitive in terms of yielding grip result compared to smaller wheels. So yes, for big wheels, u dont hv to dial as much.

Then u intro the scenario of lowering the car, and what happens? -ve camber goes up...undesirable coz too much? Maybe....how do u correct it?
Re do your allignment. For a more track oriented car set up, often we see rear control arm installed to correct this.

2. In theory that works...having toes in make the car slower. It's the same thing as when you are ski-ing. you form / \ on your feet to slow you down. But that is in the straight!!.......What happens when you are cornering especially on higher speed turns? So, i think ideally...neutral toes for road driving.
Slight toe out in the front and rear toe in for track set up. Makes a huge difference here.


I think neutral toes all round and -ve camber at the rear. And it's always more than the front.

Ah so if I dont track I shouldnt have toes (not the foot type) in. But now I do have some toe in front and rear. I was recommend to dial toe in for front so that my car doesnt take off like a zig zagging snake when I launch the ahbeng way. And it did work to some extend but I ve also notice it being slower too in acceleration. I guess friction is grip is stability but friction is also resistance right?

Ok what if I remove all my toes(ie neutral) , front camber neutral, rear also camber neutral....and launch? Will i accelerate smoother at a straight line?

 

[vicious]

Re: Comments from Alignment Shop

Any other add-on for more cambering? Bolts, ALK, RCA?

 

[opvaulet]

Re: Comments from Alignment Shop

I felt my e81 did not handle as well as it should until I checked the alignment. After adjustment to include a little toe in at the front (very little, I remember about 2 minutes) and about 8 minutes of toe in for the rear it made a huge difference to the feel of the car...much more planted now! I also have significantly more -ve camber on the left front compared to the right; apparently to help with our cambered roads, and certainly I am impressed with how little the car pulls to the left on a left cambered road. I am on Non-RFT's.

There is a mod that removes the alignment pin on the front strut tops and elongating the bolt holes to accommodate a bit more -Ve camber in the front which apparently can produce up to -ve1 degree of camber for less understeer/more feel which I have just found out about. Hmmm.....

 

[bob76]

Re: Comments from Alignment Shop

can request PML to change to zero camber at the rear before car delivery? Read from other forumers that too much -ve camber will cause inner edge of rear tyre wear out much faster...

 

[kenntona]

Re: Comments from Alignment Shop

Handling should be prioritised over tyre wear.

 

[Racebred]

Re: Comments from Alignment Shop

from my personal feel on BMW handling at the track. Non-staggered setup gives you the most natural handling.