DHL plane hit by missile incident
- Thread starter Mockngbrd
- Start date
Re: DHL plane hit by missile incident
Speaking of Hydralics, anyone remembered JAL 747-100 back in the 80s??
Aircraft was flying without any steering AT ALL! Climbing and desending and climbing etc....for about 20+ mins trying to ditch the plane into the sea hoping for minimal loss of lives. The Japanese pilots were only controlling it with the sole means of engine power. UNfortunately, they missed the mark and hit the mountain top at high speeds...
Today, that is still the highest record death held in aviation disaster. More than 500 passenger were onboard that ill fated 747. Japan Airline still mark that day every year with a minute of silence.
That must have been some 20 mins of terror for the passengers.
May i add again: ACCOUNTABILITY!!!!!
Speaking of Hydralics, anyone remembered JAL 747-100 back in the 80s??
Aircraft was flying without any steering AT ALL! Climbing and desending and climbing etc....for about 20+ mins trying to ditch the plane into the sea hoping for minimal loss of lives. The Japanese pilots were only controlling it with the sole means of engine power. UNfortunately, they missed the mark and hit the mountain top at high speeds...
Today, that is still the highest record death held in aviation disaster. More than 500 passenger were onboard that ill fated 747. Japan Airline still mark that day every year with a minute of silence.
That must have been some 20 mins of terror for the passengers.
May i add again: ACCOUNTABILITY!!!!!
axl
Well-Known Member
Re: DHL plane hit by missile incident
Des... I think the JAL crash was the single horrific in terms of fatalies for a single aircraft, but watching the same series on Discovery - the most deadly aviation incident ever shd be: Tenerife disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
On another note, a giant 747 glider is truly amazing... British Airways Flight 9 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
No wonder commercial pilots are so well-paid. Cos so many lives are all in their hands...
Des... I think the JAL crash was the single horrific in terms of fatalies for a single aircraft, but watching the same series on Discovery - the most deadly aviation incident ever shd be: Tenerife disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
On another note, a giant 747 glider is truly amazing... British Airways Flight 9 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
No wonder commercial pilots are so well-paid. Cos so many lives are all in their hands...
Re: DHL plane hit by missile incident
Oh ya, i meant record number in a SINGLE crash. The other one involved two 747. That one is because of a "management" pilot rushing to take off.
Used to be well paid la. They are trying to change that now because argument is that lives lies mostly with the technological advancement. Not pilot. SOme may agree. But i wonder, would any of you- TODAY, willing to take a shot at sitting on an aeroplane or your loved ones with no pilot onboard?
Oh ya, i meant record number in a SINGLE crash. The other one involved two 747. That one is because of a "management" pilot rushing to take off.
Used to be well paid la. They are trying to change that now because argument is that lives lies mostly with the technological advancement. Not pilot. SOme may agree. But i wonder, would any of you- TODAY, willing to take a shot at sitting on an aeroplane or your loved ones with no pilot onboard?
axl;200070 said:
Re: DHL plane hit by missile incident
Most of the top Airlines today fly and share common types: B777, B747, A340/A330/A320 etc. With the exception of some developing countries still flying 30 years old 747-200 and the likes. But that is out of the league of Airlines we usually refer to.
Anyway, i am talking about this theory of doctors....metaphorically speaking of course....
http://www.bmw-sg.com/forums/lounge/16867-why-arsony-smyuen-makes-more-than-ah-wee-3.html
Most of the top Airlines today fly and share common types: B777, B747, A340/A330/A320 etc. With the exception of some developing countries still flying 30 years old 747-200 and the likes. But that is out of the league of Airlines we usually refer to.
Anyway, i am talking about this theory of doctors....metaphorically speaking of course....
http://www.bmw-sg.com/forums/lounge/16867-why-arsony-smyuen-makes-more-than-ah-wee-3.html
ACS CAB3;200143 said:
AC Schnitzer
Well-Known Member
Re: DHL plane hit by missile incident
Indeed very tragic. You can lose your ailerons but losing your verticle stabalizer is even worst. In the case of JAL 123, they lost all flight controls.
By alternating thrust, you are able to achieve a little directional capability. To increase altitude or pitch up, you increase thrust in order to increase airspeed. In doing so the wing than generate lift which than enable the aircraft to climb.
If you've ever tried it before, its pretty scary and tedious to control the aircraft because one has to factor in engine spool rate, temperatures, wind conditions, fuel burn etc.
By far the only case I know of is United 232 which suffered the same fate. They were able alternate thrust on Left and Right engine to guide the aircraft into the airport. However landing is difficult because the aircraft has to flare prior touch down in order to arrest the decend rate. With lost of controls the pilots aren't able to arrest the decend rate and hence crashed. Despite the crash, there were still quite a bunchful of survivors which in my opinion is very commentable considering an aircraft that has no directional control ability.
Here is the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) for JAL 123.
CA = Captain
FO = First officer
FE = Flight engineer
ST = Stewardess
URV = Unreadable voices
GPWS = Ground Proximity Warning System
ST: Some passenger is pushing a switch. May I?
CA: Be careful...be careful and quickly.
ST: Thank you.
(large bang) (warning sound)
FE: Oh (warning stopped)
CA: What have you identified?
CA: Check gear...Gear.
?: Ah...
CA: Gear...
?: URV
?: URV
(Prerecorded announcement) Put on oxygen mask, fasten seat belt, we are making an emergency descent
ST: May we ask you...passengers with infants,...nearby passengers ....please be ready...for
CA: Squawk 77
?: URV
?: URV
?: ehh...
?: URV
?: Hydro pressure dropped.
?: Amber light on. URV
(warning sounds)
CA: Right turn.
CA: Right turn.
FO: I did it.
CA: Yes.
CA: Do not bank so deeply
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Do not bank so deeply
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Recover it.
FO: It does not recover.
CA: Pull up.
CA: All hydraulics failed.
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Descend.
FO: Yes, sir.
FE: It is...
CA: Descend. (warning sounds)
CA: Why this sound?
?: URV
CA: Right turn.
FO: Right turn.
CA: Your side is cleared.
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Turn left.
?: Hydro pressure is all lost. All lost?
?: All lost. All lost. Yes.
FO: Ah...Please contact with company (radio) ah...them through 235 company (radio)
FE: Yes.
?: URV
CA: Why are they so noisy?
CA: Left turn.
CA: ... dropped
FO: Yes, sir. I try...
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Do not say, yes.
FO: Yes, sir
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: What is this?
FE: (through interphone) How about cabin pressure? Have cabin masks dropped? So? Well, cabin pressure... please.
?: URV
FE: Because cabin masks dropped...
?: URV
FE: Cabin pressure dropped.
FE: What? more aft...ah...What was damaged? Where? ah...ah...ah... ah... Coat room? for rear-most, is it not? Understood. Ah...Coat room...general...It dropped in baggage space. It would be better to land.
FE: All persons inhale masks...
?: Do we descend slightly?
18:33:12 > ?: R...
FE: R5 window? Roger. Yes, roger. Yes, roger.
FE: Captain
CA: Yes
FE: R5 window...it would be better to make an emergency descent.
CA: Yes
FE: Do we put on masks?
CA: Yes, it would be better
FE: I think it would be better to inhale emergency mask
CA: Yes
(warning sounds)
FO: Please by company (radio)
FE: Roger (warning stopped)
FE: Ah... Where?
FE: Ah.Now...
(warning sounds)
FE: Ah. Where now
FE: Ya
FE: Which section of Japan Air?
?: It is Osaka
FE: Yes
FE: Japan Air Osaka? Japan Air Tokyo 1 Japan Air Tokyo.
(warning stopped)
?: URV
FE: Ehh..
?: URV
CA: Do not care it.
ST: ... now ... please...
?: ah...Ah...ah..ah
CA: Nose down.
CA: Lower nose
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Do it with both hands. With both hands.
FO: Ya, sir.
FE: Do we down gear? gear down...
FO: Gear down'
CA: Speed does not drop.
FO: Speed does not drop.
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Yes, sir.
FE: Do I set it in alternate position?
CA: Wait a moment...
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Yes, sir
CA: Lower now.
FO: Yes, sir
?: URV
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Ya, sir.
CA: What is this?
?: URV
CA: Lower nose
FE: Gear was lowered
FO: Ya, sir.
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Lower nose, do not care it
?: ...URV
?: URV
?: URV
?: URV
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Power
CA: Power
CA: Lower nose.
CA: It is heavy. Lower nose slightly more
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: It is heavy.
CA: It is heavy
CA: Did you do it to full?
FO: Yes, to full Controlled to full.
CA: Oh...it is heavy.
FO: How about flap, sir? Do I extend it?
CA: It is a bit too early.
FO: Is it too early?
CA: It is too early, too early
?: Was gear extended?
FO: Gear was extended.
?: URV
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Do I contact?
?: URV
?: URV
CA: Where?
ST: ..Those passengers who accompany babies, please keep your heads on seat backs and hold your babies firmly. Did you fasten seat belts? All tables are retracted? Please check it.. sometimes we land ... without notice...we keep contact with ground ...
CA: Lower nose.
CA: We go?
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: It may be hopelas.
FE: Do I contact?
FO: Yes, sir.
?: URV
?: URV
?: ...aileron hydro off
FE: Hydro quantity all lost ...
(warning stopped)
?: ... quantity...
?: Yes
?: 119.7 to Haneda.
CA: It is a mountain
?: Yes, please.
CA: Raise nose.
CA: It is a mountain.
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Control to right.
CA: Right turn, raise nose.
CA: We may hit the mountain
FO: Ya, sir
CA: Right turn. (warning sounds)
CA: Max power.
FO: Max power.
CA: Hold out.
FE: Ah..Do you do it by two persons?
CA: We are two.
CA: Left turn.
FO: Yes, sir.
FE: Hold out.
CA: Left turn, now ..
CA: Left turn.
FO: Decrease power slightly...
?: URV
CA: Right, right, ... lower nose.
?: URV
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Fully controlled now. (warning stopped)
FO: ...it is totally ineffective ...
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Good.
CA: Here we go.
FO: Ya, sir.
?: URV
FE: Do I increase power7
CA: Power, power (warning sounds)
CA: Power (another warning sounds) Let's increase power, increase power
?: URV
?: URV (stall warning sounds)
CA: Ah...it is hopeless ...
?: Stall
CA: Max power
FO or FE: Max power Max power
CA: Stall (Stall warning stopped)
FO or FE: Speed increases, speed
CA: Let's hang tough.
CA: Hold out.
FE: Yes sir.
CA: Lower nose.
CA: Hold out, hold out.
FO: Fully controlled
?: Speed is decreasing, speed ..
FE: Speed is controlled by power. How about power control? Power control, captain?
CA: Yes
CA: Speed is 220 knots.
FE: Yes, sir
CA: Do not lower nose. It increases speed
FO: Yes, sir
CA: It's going down.
FO: Yes, sir.
FO: Raise nose, raise.
?: Do I extend flap?
CA: Unable.
FO: No, sir, with the alternate.
FE: It can be extended with the alternate.
CA: Lower nose.
?: URV
CA: With both hands...
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Lower nose.
CA: Yes. Power.
FE: I increase power.
?: URV
?: Yes, sir.
CA: Lower nose.
CA: Hold out. (warning stopped)
FE: Flap was extended with the alternate.
?: Roger.
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Yes, sir.
FO: URV
?: URV
CA: Raise nose.
CA: Power.
FE: Power up.
FO: It is 119.7. Ah...number two.
FE: Yes.
?: URV
?: Yes. (warning sounds)
CA: Yes, left, left turn.
FO: Yes, sir.
FE: Yes, 110.
CA: Left turn.
?: Yes. It is 119.7.(warning stopped)
CA: Request position.
FE: Yes, sir. I will ask them.
FE: Northwest of Haneda.
CA: Raise nose.
FE: How many miles?
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Yes, sir.
FO: Controlled fully.
FE: Yes, roger, roger.
FE: They said we are 25 miles west of Kumagaya.
CA: Flaps all?
FO: Yes, sir. Flap 10.
CA: Raise nose.
FO: Yes, roger, sir.
CA: Raise nose.
CA: Raise nose.
CA: Raise nose.
CA: Since long before.
CA: Stop flap.
?: Stop it.
CA: Do not extend flap so deeply.
?: Flap up, flap up, flap up, flap up...
?: Flap up.
?: Yes, sir.
CA: Power, power.
?: URV
CA: Flap.
FO: I am retracting it.
CA: URV
CA: Raise nose.
CA: Raise nose.
CA: Power.
GPWS: Sink rate, pull up, pull up, pull up, pull up
CA: URV
GPWS: Pull up pull up
(sound of collision with first peak)
GPWS: Pullup,pullup
(sound of impact on the second peak)
(tape ends)
BlackStealth;200061 said:
Indeed very tragic. You can lose your ailerons but losing your verticle stabalizer is even worst. In the case of JAL 123, they lost all flight controls.
By alternating thrust, you are able to achieve a little directional capability. To increase altitude or pitch up, you increase thrust in order to increase airspeed. In doing so the wing than generate lift which than enable the aircraft to climb.
If you've ever tried it before, its pretty scary and tedious to control the aircraft because one has to factor in engine spool rate, temperatures, wind conditions, fuel burn etc.
By far the only case I know of is United 232 which suffered the same fate. They were able alternate thrust on Left and Right engine to guide the aircraft into the airport. However landing is difficult because the aircraft has to flare prior touch down in order to arrest the decend rate. With lost of controls the pilots aren't able to arrest the decend rate and hence crashed. Despite the crash, there were still quite a bunchful of survivors which in my opinion is very commentable considering an aircraft that has no directional control ability.
Here is the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) for JAL 123.
CA = Captain
FO = First officer
FE = Flight engineer
ST = Stewardess
URV = Unreadable voices
GPWS = Ground Proximity Warning System
ST: Some passenger is pushing a switch. May I?
CA: Be careful...be careful and quickly.
ST: Thank you.
(large bang) (warning sound)
FE: Oh (warning stopped)
CA: What have you identified?
CA: Check gear...Gear.
?: Ah...
CA: Gear...
?: URV
?: URV
(Prerecorded announcement) Put on oxygen mask, fasten seat belt, we are making an emergency descent
ST: May we ask you...passengers with infants,...nearby passengers ....please be ready...for
CA: Squawk 77
?: URV
?: URV
?: ehh...
?: URV
?: Hydro pressure dropped.
?: Amber light on. URV
(warning sounds)
CA: Right turn.
CA: Right turn.
FO: I did it.
CA: Yes.
CA: Do not bank so deeply
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Do not bank so deeply
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Recover it.
FO: It does not recover.
CA: Pull up.
CA: All hydraulics failed.
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Descend.
FO: Yes, sir.
FE: It is...
CA: Descend. (warning sounds)
CA: Why this sound?
?: URV
CA: Right turn.
FO: Right turn.
CA: Your side is cleared.
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Turn left.
?: Hydro pressure is all lost. All lost?
?: All lost. All lost. Yes.
FO: Ah...Please contact with company (radio) ah...them through 235 company (radio)
FE: Yes.
?: URV
CA: Why are they so noisy?
CA: Left turn.
CA: ... dropped
FO: Yes, sir. I try...
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Do not say, yes.
FO: Yes, sir
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: What is this?
FE: (through interphone) How about cabin pressure? Have cabin masks dropped? So? Well, cabin pressure... please.
?: URV
FE: Because cabin masks dropped...
?: URV
FE: Cabin pressure dropped.
FE: What? more aft...ah...What was damaged? Where? ah...ah...ah... ah... Coat room? for rear-most, is it not? Understood. Ah...Coat room...general...It dropped in baggage space. It would be better to land.
FE: All persons inhale masks...
?: Do we descend slightly?
18:33:12 > ?: R...
FE: R5 window? Roger. Yes, roger. Yes, roger.
FE: Captain
CA: Yes
FE: R5 window...it would be better to make an emergency descent.
CA: Yes
FE: Do we put on masks?
CA: Yes, it would be better
FE: I think it would be better to inhale emergency mask
CA: Yes
(warning sounds)
FO: Please by company (radio)
FE: Roger (warning stopped)
FE: Ah... Where?
FE: Ah.Now...
(warning sounds)
FE: Ah. Where now
FE: Ya
FE: Which section of Japan Air?
?: It is Osaka
FE: Yes
FE: Japan Air Osaka? Japan Air Tokyo 1 Japan Air Tokyo.
(warning stopped)
?: URV
FE: Ehh..
?: URV
CA: Do not care it.
ST: ... now ... please...
?: ah...Ah...ah..ah
CA: Nose down.
CA: Lower nose
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Do it with both hands. With both hands.
FO: Ya, sir.
FE: Do we down gear? gear down...
FO: Gear down'
CA: Speed does not drop.
FO: Speed does not drop.
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Yes, sir.
FE: Do I set it in alternate position?
CA: Wait a moment...
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Yes, sir
CA: Lower now.
FO: Yes, sir
?: URV
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Ya, sir.
CA: What is this?
?: URV
CA: Lower nose
FE: Gear was lowered
FO: Ya, sir.
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Lower nose, do not care it
?: ...URV
?: URV
?: URV
?: URV
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Power
CA: Power
CA: Lower nose.
CA: It is heavy. Lower nose slightly more
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: It is heavy.
CA: It is heavy
CA: Did you do it to full?
FO: Yes, to full Controlled to full.
CA: Oh...it is heavy.
FO: How about flap, sir? Do I extend it?
CA: It is a bit too early.
FO: Is it too early?
CA: It is too early, too early
?: Was gear extended?
FO: Gear was extended.
?: URV
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Do I contact?
?: URV
?: URV
CA: Where?
ST: ..Those passengers who accompany babies, please keep your heads on seat backs and hold your babies firmly. Did you fasten seat belts? All tables are retracted? Please check it.. sometimes we land ... without notice...we keep contact with ground ...
CA: Lower nose.
CA: We go?
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: It may be hopelas.
FE: Do I contact?
FO: Yes, sir.
?: URV
?: URV
?: ...aileron hydro off
FE: Hydro quantity all lost ...
(warning stopped)
?: ... quantity...
?: Yes
?: 119.7 to Haneda.
CA: It is a mountain
?: Yes, please.
CA: Raise nose.
CA: It is a mountain.
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Control to right.
CA: Right turn, raise nose.
CA: We may hit the mountain
FO: Ya, sir
CA: Right turn. (warning sounds)
CA: Max power.
FO: Max power.
CA: Hold out.
FE: Ah..Do you do it by two persons?
CA: We are two.
CA: Left turn.
FO: Yes, sir.
FE: Hold out.
CA: Left turn, now ..
CA: Left turn.
FO: Decrease power slightly...
?: URV
CA: Right, right, ... lower nose.
?: URV
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Fully controlled now. (warning stopped)
FO: ...it is totally ineffective ...
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Good.
CA: Here we go.
FO: Ya, sir.
?: URV
FE: Do I increase power7
CA: Power, power (warning sounds)
CA: Power (another warning sounds) Let's increase power, increase power
?: URV
?: URV (stall warning sounds)
CA: Ah...it is hopeless ...
?: Stall
CA: Max power
FO or FE: Max power Max power
CA: Stall (Stall warning stopped)
FO or FE: Speed increases, speed
CA: Let's hang tough.
CA: Hold out.
FE: Yes sir.
CA: Lower nose.
CA: Hold out, hold out.
FO: Fully controlled
?: Speed is decreasing, speed ..
FE: Speed is controlled by power. How about power control? Power control, captain?
CA: Yes
CA: Speed is 220 knots.
FE: Yes, sir
CA: Do not lower nose. It increases speed
FO: Yes, sir
CA: It's going down.
FO: Yes, sir.
FO: Raise nose, raise.
?: Do I extend flap?
CA: Unable.
FO: No, sir, with the alternate.
FE: It can be extended with the alternate.
CA: Lower nose.
?: URV
CA: With both hands...
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Lower nose.
CA: Yes. Power.
FE: I increase power.
?: URV
?: Yes, sir.
CA: Lower nose.
CA: Hold out. (warning stopped)
FE: Flap was extended with the alternate.
?: Roger.
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Yes, sir.
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Yes, sir.
FO: URV
?: URV
CA: Raise nose.
CA: Power.
FE: Power up.
FO: It is 119.7. Ah...number two.
FE: Yes.
?: URV
?: Yes. (warning sounds)
CA: Yes, left, left turn.
FO: Yes, sir.
FE: Yes, 110.
CA: Left turn.
?: Yes. It is 119.7.(warning stopped)
CA: Request position.
FE: Yes, sir. I will ask them.
FE: Northwest of Haneda.
CA: Raise nose.
FE: How many miles?
CA: Lower nose.
FO: Yes, sir.
FO: Controlled fully.
FE: Yes, roger, roger.
FE: They said we are 25 miles west of Kumagaya.
CA: Flaps all?
FO: Yes, sir. Flap 10.
CA: Raise nose.
FO: Yes, roger, sir.
CA: Raise nose.
CA: Raise nose.
CA: Raise nose.
CA: Since long before.
CA: Stop flap.
?: Stop it.
CA: Do not extend flap so deeply.
?: Flap up, flap up, flap up, flap up...
?: Flap up.
?: Yes, sir.
CA: Power, power.
?: URV
CA: Flap.
FO: I am retracting it.
CA: URV
CA: Raise nose.
CA: Raise nose.
CA: Power.
GPWS: Sink rate, pull up, pull up, pull up, pull up
CA: URV
GPWS: Pull up pull up
(sound of collision with first peak)
GPWS: Pullup,pullup
(sound of impact on the second peak)
(tape ends)
