DMS for 523i

[kopi_o]

Re: DMS for 523i

hi
how to tell wat version of cip is installed for the car?
if nescessary might as well get the latest installed before dms

The only way to tell is to bring your car into PML.
Does DMS download each car's individual software, modify then upload back to the ECU or is there a generic program for all 523i? If it is the latter then updating the car's software to CIP 19.x now will not make a difference!

 

[mistraele]

Re: DMS for 523i

normally for a remap, they will just rewrite the ECU with their own software and then fine tune accordingly.

 

[Racebred]

Re: DMS for 523i

in DMS's case, rob pulls out all the codes written in the ECU. he then changes some codes on the map, and reuploads it. unless people in PML pull out your ecu codes, then one by one do a check on the hexadecimal values line by line, there's no reason how anyone can ever find out if your ecu has been rewritten. even the speed limiter is not removed. the value is merely changed from 250kmh to 2500kmh.

 

[equinox]

Re: DMS for 523i

Jus to let u folks know, Rob is currently in town.....


Hey RB, how's Pasir Laba???? ;-)

 

[Shaun]

Re: DMS for 523i

It is easy enough to carry out a program comparison. Just the program size difference alone can show that changes have been made. There is no need for line for line checks. Even if it were so it is easy enough to write a program that compares programs line for line extremely quickly.

Not saying that these systems already are in place, but that it would be very easy for the OE guys to have it done on a whim. OE control systems software engineers and their programs are far ahead of most everyone else.

 

[rex7_vtec]

Re: DMS for 523i

It is easy enough to carry out a program comparison. Just the program size difference alone can show that changes have been made. There is no need for line for line checks. Even if it were so it is easy enough to write a program that compares programs line for line extremely quickly.

Not saying that these systems already are in place, but that it would be very easy for the OE guys to have it done on a whim. OE control systems software engineers and their programs are far ahead of most everyone else.

Which brings about this question I always have in my head whenever I do modifications to my car.

"OEM Engineers have spent years doing R&D on a car before it gets produced and sold. Aftermarket tuners spend barely a few weeks on track testing their products on the car. So what makes them think that they are far more superior than the OEM Engineers..."

 

[hackzi]

Re: DMS for 523i

Yup, a hashing algorithm can be used to detect the slightest of changes. Coupled with cryptography, lagi strong.

 

[T6]

Re: DMS for 523i

I think in a mass-produced cars, the engineers have to factor in costs and also what the mass market wants based on past profiling (e.g. image, type of usage, age of buyer, comfort etc). The ultimate product will have to be one that makes financial sense to them, and which they think will sell.

After-mkt tuners are hardcore and invariable only focused on performance. Price is not an issue coz modders wld be willing to pay.

Not a bad thing for end-users. Some Tai Tais may juz use a 5 series to go marketing and shopping whereas will track it. So that is where after-mkt mods including tning will make sense to this group.

 

[mistraele]

Re: DMS for 523i

It is easy enough to carry out a program comparison. Just the program size difference alone can show that changes have been made. There is no need for line for line checks. Even if it were so it is easy enough to write a program that compares programs line for line extremely quickly.

Not saying that these systems already are in place, but that it would be very easy for the OE guys to have it done on a whim. OE control systems software engineers and their programs are far ahead of most everyone else.

i cant speak for DMS, but there are tuners out there who remap which can be undetectable.my understanding is what they do is to get the ECU to show up th einformation that the dealer is looking for, even if the underlying information has been changed.

also, no one is ever going to do a line by line check. most current ECUs run about 15-20,000 sets of parameters. the program size also doesnt necessarily change because its only the values that are changed and these occupy the same memory space.

 

[zag]

Re: DMS for 523i

I think in a mass-produced cars, the engineers have to factor in costs and also what the mass market wants based on past profiling (e.g. image, type of usage, age of buyer, comfort etc). The ultimate product will have to be one that makes financial sense to them, and which they think will sell.

After-mkt tuners are hardcore and invariable only focused on performance. Price is not an issue coz modders wld be willing to pay.

Not a bad thing for end-users. Some Tai Tais may juz use a 5 series to go marketing and shopping whereas will track it. So that is where after-mkt mods including tning will make sense to this group.

imho the simple fact is that aftermarket tuners capitalise on the basis that they are not liable to authority and legal guidelines on environment protection such as fuel emission control; fuel comsumption; noise guidelines. etc.
take a simple example the same 3 liter engine on the 530i produces less bhp than those in EUs and Asia. why is that so?

 

[Shaun]

Re: DMS for 523i

i cant speak for DMS, but there are tuners out there who remap which can be undetectable.my understanding is what they do is to get the ECU to show up th einformation that the dealer is looking for, even if the underlying information has been changed.

And I'm stating that the OE guys can pre-setup or dig into their their ECUs or software to defeat that. It isn't like a bear ambling into a lion's den. It is more like a little rabbit not knowing what he's getting into. There's really no contest.

also, no one is ever going to do a line by line check.

No person will do it. The person will just write a program and have a computer compare the two programs at electronic speeds The OEs are being gracious/accommodating or plain not bothering if they haven't already done this. It is their territory and they have the upper hand. All others are guests. If and when the OE guys decide the guests are no longer welcome, they will make them leave.

 

[Shaun]

Re: DMS for 523i

Which brings about this question I always have in my head whenever I do modifications to my car.

"OEM Engineers have spent years doing R&D on a car before it gets produced and sold. Aftermarket tuners spend barely a few weeks on track testing their products on the car. So what makes them think that they are far more superior than the OEM Engineers..."

Yessir..

When there is a narrowing of operational requirements (ie. emissions, and comfort considerations removed, like in racing) then there are specialist companies that can do a better job since that is what they've had decades of experience at too.

There are small areas of the car that small aftermarket guys can improve too, for a price. If a person's requirements are different from what the OEMs understand the average user's requirements to be, then it is possible to tailor the car slightly as well, but again for a price.

If driving requirements fit close to what the OEMs understand it to be based on all their market research, then it makes no sense to change the balance they have provided you with.

 

[kopi_o]

Re: DMS for 523i

Shaun is correct that it is extremely easy to write a program to check for changes. A simple checksum program will do.

OEMs program a car to cater for a wide range of enviromental situations including grade of fuel, temperature, etc and also emmisions and fuel consumption requirements. Tuners can be more specific, like tuning for fuel that is 97+ octane. They are also less concerned with consumption and to some extent emmisions. In this way they can optimise the ignition curves and fuel maps for the best performance under a more narrow set of requirements. At least that is the theory...

 

[Racebred]

Re: DMS for 523i

anyways PMl will NEVER bother to plug in their laptop to check for your programs car by car. they'll only modic it and then quickly pass to carwash for fast fast fast turnover, coz we all know they are damn busy.

anyhow, the dms is in my qp for half a year already, and the car is consistently performing better than when stock. values for the hydraulic clutch were changed too, and even my dealer mechanic commented that the car moves off much more smoothly now. overall i'm very happy with dms till date.

one quick way to check if your entire program has been overwritten by the dealer, is to check the rev limiter.

 

[zag]

Re: DMS for 523i

so anyone said "hi" to rob recently? hehehe!

 

[kopi_o]

Re: DMS for 523i

Heard that he is busy working on the valvetronic engines with one of our bros. I am still waiting to hear the good news from him!

 

[Shaun]

Re: DMS for 523i

anyways PMl will NEVER bother to plug in their laptop to check for your programs car by car. they'll only modic it and then quickly pass to carwash for fast fast fast turnover, coz we all know they are damn busy.

You know what they say about never saying never.

 

[wilman2772]

Re: DMS for 523i

so anyone said "hi" to rob recently? hehehe!

Me, Kent, Edward & a few others met Rob last Sunday at Ritz......nice big chap!!

kekekekeke

'The Great White'

 

[TripleM]

Re: DMS for 523i

never jio...............

 

[wilman2772]

Re: DMS for 523i

never jio...............

Paiseh bro.....Kent jio me to go see the 'guru' .....

U know me lah.....I always luv to meet 'gurus' tat make more bhp for bimmers....

'Clan Master'