e46 transmission oil

[martmode8850]

Re: e46 transmission oil

good technical stuff... but by changing ATF, though cheaper than tranny, how many more kms can you expect to put the tranny through??? another 100k kms???

 

[AdrianNg]

Re: e46 transmission oil

Okie...

Sounds like a good idea to change the transmission oil.... where would be e good place to replace it beside Performance ?

Cheers
Adrian
=========

 

[T6]

Re: e46 transmission oil

Pls refer to the SG Workshops folder at top rite of screen. Any of those workshops can do the job for u. If you have seen another thread on ATF, please note Piggyboy's advice abt using non OEM ATF fluid if your car is still under PML warranty.

 

[T6]

Re: e46 transmission oil

T6, was there any difference after you changed the trans oil?

Sorry, juz saw your post. I must admit I didn't feel any diff. Juz peace of mind knowing I have done maintenance on that area.

 

[Racebred]

Re: e46 transmission oil

just make absolutely sure the independent workshop that changes your oil is thoroughly competent. bmw seals up these components coz its very hard to service correctly. and if its not done properly, the tc or rear diff may completely fail.

2nd thing is, if ever, you need to claim your warrenty on these large items, and pml finds out that you have serviced it outside, your warrenty for these items is completely voided, which is very fair and understandable. the first check pml will undertake is to test the fluid inside, whether it is the same as what the factory put in.

so guys, my point is, if you want to do something extra outside, make sure you understand what you are putting yourself through. do so with eyes wide open.

 

[shaaz]

Re: e46 transmission oil

i agree with shawn on this. Large items like this u gotta be careful.... stock's good enough,

 

[oneHeadlight]

Re: e46 transmission oil

what if no longer under warranty ? Was about to change but reading that it involves quite extensive dismantling of a tightly sealed components... having second thoughts. PML still insists there's no need to change. Workshops suggest to change. Why would PML, which also runs a business, tell u not to change when they can earn from it ? Workshops reply is that they earn more when the gearbox breaks down. Not alot of money involved but if there's no need to change, the money can be better spent..

Can technically knowledgable people share more ? Thanks.

 

[superfly]

Re: e46 transmission oil

Sorry, this is the first time I am posting to this forum but I just heard from a friend of his experience changing transmission oil on his e46 a while ago. The feeling was shiok for a while... like driving a new car he said. Then he began to experience power losses in the middle of traffic (very dangerous!). That was when he found out his transmission was thrashed.. oil had leaked.

Just a cautionary tale.

 

[martmode8850]

Re: e46 transmission oil

PML still insists there's no need to change

yes. checked with the senior technical advisor during the Tech Talk organised a while ago for us forum members.

oil is lifelong. means that if the life span of the gear box is average 120k-150k km, then it is good till then. anything beyond will be borrowed time. why do you think the warranty is for 100k km or three years???

the tranny fluid needs to be changed in a clean room environment. however, it is quite impossible to do that unless the workshop or PML has this facility. ie, means it will be very expensive to do a proper job.

there was a previous post on PML changing tranny fluid and then the tranny breakdown. thus they dont do it anymore as the customers will claim them.

my take on this is... if you want smooth gear shifting throughout the 150000+km, then change it. but the tranny will fail in time anyway & most of us dont take the car beyond. therefore my question on how many more kms can the tranny life be extended cant be really answered here.

 

[rodders]

Re: e46 transmission oil

what if no longer under warranty ? Was about to change but reading that it involves quite extensive dismantling of a tightly sealed components... having second thoughts. PML still insists there's no need to change. Workshops suggest to change. Why would PML, which also runs a business, tell u not to change when they can earn from it ? Workshops reply is that they earn more when the gearbox breaks down. Not alot of money involved but if there's no need to change, the money can be better spent..

Can technically knowledgable people share more ? Thanks.

I'm equally confused as you on this subject bro. Would like to change my oil too but after reading the cons about changing it, I'm having second thoughts. Wish that someone competent on this subject can clear this issue uo once and for all.

 

[martmode8850]

Re: e46 transmission oil

Side 1 :- Transmission manufacturers

GM or ZF for our rides. They say no oil change needed throughout the life of the tranny. Only top up. PML says the same thing. True if the average life span is indeed 120k to 150k kms. However, we will get rough shifting. Galling will occur between the gears all the time. the metal does not replace itself. the gears will fail in time.
Flip side is the tranny boys will want us to change the trannies if we do take the car more than 150k kms. that will cost about 2k-3k for the part itself.

Side 2 :- ATF manufactureres

GM tranny
Texaco ETL 7045E (BMW Part# 83 22 0 026 922) - (E46/E39 1999-2000)
Texaco ETL 8072B (BMW Part# 83 22 0 024 359) - (E46/E39/E53 2000-2002)

ZF Tranny
Shell LA 2634 (BMW Part# 83 22 9 407 765) - (E31/E32/E34 1992-1995)
Esso ATF LT 71141 (BMW PArt# 83 22 9 407 807) - (E46Ci/E39/E53/E38 2000-2002)

These guys only get to sell 7-10 litres of their oil for a new tranny. Oil does & will break down over time and heat. Therefore, while BMW is able to qualify their oil for a 120k-150k km operating life, they would also want to sell more of their ATFs??? If a ATF change costs $150, and if it is changed every 50000km, then 3 changes would have cost us $450. about 15% of the cost of a new tranny at $3k. i am not saying the tranny will fail at 150k km, but beyond that magic number, it is borrowed time. maybe by changing the ATF, we may be able to get it to 200k km.

If we compare to F1 cars, these cars are subjected to race conditions that are very stressful to the tranny. Therefore, the tranny fluid is changed after every race. Normal driving (though some of us drive very differently) would be the very perimeters set by BMW for the ATF qualification tests. And if the car manufacterer qualifies it, it should be good for use throughout the life of the tranny.

I have a PDF technical service bulletin on transmission service from BMW but because it is 292kB, I am unable to upload this file. Maybe admin can help???

 

[oneHeadlight]

Re: e46 transmission oil

In other words... don't change ? Still waiting to hear from people who has driven cars beyond 150000km mark.

Another question : Driving in auto gear Vs using the steptronic (watever the correct term is).
Which has bigger strain, if any, on the tranny ?

 

[__iceman__]

Re: e46 transmission oil

Oh yes almost forgot. The strainer in the gearbox is not critical for replacement everytime as once the run in ATF is changed, there is very little metal left in the oil and thus not too dirty. Anyway the strainer is alot more porus compared to a metal filings size. It is the job of the magnets in the sump to catch the metal filings. The strainer is to prevent chunks from entering the hydraulic system.

Cheers

Yo bro, on the contrary, I was told by a BMW specialist workshop that the most effective thing we do is not only the ATF change, but its the ATF filter (the 'strainer' as above?) that is critical to be changed...

Anyway, my 'fish tank theory' tells me that an older filter will get choked up, but more effective in catching debris. So unless we're looking at the old filter breaking up and releasing the old debris into the system...

What gives? This tranny topic is always so controversial man.

 

[yendor]

Re: e46 transmission oil

The "filter" does not really catch all the metal particles. For that there are magnets in the ATF sump to attract the particles that are worn off the gears. Gears are iron/ferrous based and thus are attracted to them. The "filter" in this case acts like a strainer to prevent large sized particles from entering the Tranny valve body and jamming the valves open or closed.

If the filter was so good, then BMW would not have placed magnets in the sump. Your engine oil is one such example. The filter is fine enough the catch everything in the oil and there are no magnets. Thus that is why i say that the strainer does not need to be changed so often. After about 2-3 ATF changes, you will need to access the sump to clear the magnets of the filings accumulation. When you do that, the paper gasket around the sump will need to go and while you are at it, change the strainer too.

This is my logic.

Cheers

 

[__iceman__]

Re: e46 transmission oil

So if I have a 'virgin' tranny (hahaha sounds impossible man, when you think twisted!) at 81,000 km, should I do the following:

1. Flush and change ATF
2. Change strainer/fliter
3. Open up sump and remove crap from magnets
4. Replace all gaskets.

Any idea, or ball park figure how much this will cost?

 

[yendor]

Re: e46 transmission oil

Wooh... 81,000 km? Steady lah...

Yup, you have correctly identified all the stuff. I think the strainer and gasket set in in the region of about $100. Make a check with Eng Soon. I think they carry original BMW original ATF too if you are not comfortable with aftermarket ATF.

Cheers.

 

[Racebred]

Re: e46 transmission oil

Generally, if you're not a chiongster, drive a relatively low powered BMW that you need to get you from point a to point b comfortably, then dont go and geh kiang phark around with the system.

but if you are more mechanically inclined, know what you are doing, know what sort of performance and temperature management you require from your torque converter and rear differential, trash the car at the track so much you know it's natural lifespan is going to halve, then go to a workshop you can trust and do proper maintenance there.

One can even specify Mobil 75-90 for your rear diff (instead of ATF), for better protection if you know your rear diff is being hauled through shit everytime you drive.

It's extremely unlikely (in this forum demographic) that an individual will keep his car for 10 years. Or maybe even renew COE. Changing the lifetime oil *may* give you an additional 10 to 20% more life, but the process carries an inherent risk to eventual total failure. So one gotta weight the pros and cons oneself, in deciding if one will suffer the risk for such gains.

So for those who mod their cars beyond belief, my advise is to go change the oil regularly. For those who dunno wtf the happening to their cars beyond the steering wheel, there's absolutely no need to jump on the bandwagon and follow blind, just because everybody else is doing it.

 

[__iceman__]

Re: e46 transmission oil

Ok, looks like I should do it. I feel the pressure that the engine places on the tranny when I flog the car. On my previous S14 (upboost and modded), I had the tranny fail twice on me before, and that isn't exactly what I want repeated.