E90 323i vs. 325i

[petrus]

Re: E90 323i vs. 325i

Hi all,

I've done all you can with a pre facelifted 523 since i bought it. I believe the 323 to 325 is similar to 523 to 525 comparison (at least pre face lift). For the pml, they are no longer bringing in the 523 so i hear.. Differences are "marginal" relative to price difference.

One thing you might want to consider. I have bought higher spec models cars before.. IE. Volvo 2.0t vs T5 and an MB E200 vs E280... This time, i opted for the lower spec car, 523 vs 525 as your resale value is almost the same considering you paid a "premium" IE. 20 to 40k.
So do be aware.. Your OMV is only slightly higher and dealers only give maybe 3 - 5 k more.... at least in my experience.
However with that said if you love driving and can afford it i would still go for the higher spec if i can see the value...

As i had the lower spec, when i bought the car, i sent it for local tuning - these are all what you can do... After that it either just isn't worth it.. As BMW, has changed to the "newer" engine and there are limits... But you can do more modding of course.. But its going to be costly...

I haven't done a dyno but base the improvements on what i was told or read

ECU Re map HIOP +10 to 20 bhp up to 10% Nm on average around 15. Have read it is possible to get to 36 extra BHP on the remap i choose to view that as rare.
Hurricane Filter 1 -2 Bhp
Exhaust Change to Sebring - +5 - 8 Bhp ( up to 5%) added bonus, your car sound meaner and its still LTA approved
Sprint booster - No bhp change. But tricks the throttle to rev more "optimal"
*includes labour etc.

Total damage in the range. 3500 SGD / Car supposed to be running at just over 200 bhp..
Can feel a difference but not quite the 525... but at that time i saved around 20 to 25k.

if you are serious and patient on optimizing the improvement, the tuner will recommend that you do the hardware changes first then the remap.. Supposedly, the computer is smart and reads your drive pattern which then effects the remap.

Hope this helps.
Best,
Ptr

 

[C3P0]

Re: E90 323i vs. 325i

Hi petrus,
Thanks for sharing your experience. So can I say that what you have done, i.e. remap, air filter, exhaust, etc, can get an increase of +22hp for your 523?

I just checked, and realised that the difference between new 523 and 525 is around $8k....not sure of the difference in the used car market.....

 

[racingaprilia]

Re: E90 323i vs. 325i

Hi all,

I've done all you can with a pre facelifted 523 since i bought it. I believe the 323 to 325 is similar to 523 to 525 comparison (at least pre face lift). For the pml, they are no longer bringing in the 523 so i hear.. Differences are "marginal" relative to price difference.

One thing you might want to consider. I have bought higher spec models cars before.. IE. Volvo 2.0t vs T5 and an MB E200 vs E280... This time, i opted for the lower spec car, 523 vs 525 as your resale value is almost the same considering you paid a "premium" IE. 20 to 40k.
So do be aware.. Your OMV is only slightly higher and dealers only give maybe 3 - 5 k more.... at least in my experience.
However with that said if you love driving and can afford it i would still go for the higher spec if i can see the value...

As i had the lower spec, when i bought the car, i sent it for local tuning - these are all what you can do... After that it either just isn't worth it.. As BMW, has changed to the "newer" engine and there are limits... But you can do more modding of course.. But its going to be costly...

I haven't done a dyno but base the improvements on what i was told or read

ECU Re map HIOP +10 to 20 bhp up to 10% Nm on average around 15. Have read it is possible to get to 36 extra BHP on the remap i choose to view that as rare.
Hurricane Filter 1 -2 Bhp
Exhaust Change to Sebring - +5 - 8 Bhp ( up to 5%) added bonus, your car sound meaner and its still LTA approved
Sprint booster - No bhp change. But tricks the throttle to rev more "optimal"
*includes labour etc.

Total damage in the range. 3500 SGD / Car supposed to be running at just over 200 bhp..
Can feel a difference but not quite the 525... but at that time i saved around 20 to 25k.

if you are serious and patient on optimizing the improvement, the tuner will recommend that you do the hardware changes first then the remap.. Supposedly, the computer is smart and reads your drive pattern which then effects the remap.

Hope this helps.
Best,
Ptr

hi bro,

no offence but i personally dun feel that with your mods the bhp can increase by 30. i also did the mods like air filter and exhaust, hiop, sprint booster, coil booster etc. and i went for a dyno, the figures werent impressive at all. just wanna check have u done a base dyno b4 you went for HIOP? cause its the best way to see the diff b4 n after. i have what u mentioned above but the results were appalling to me. i would say the gains were very minimal.

my best mods are my KW v2 although no bhp gain but the diff is very obvious as compared to stock.

my 2 cts.
regards

 

[tom_ting]

Re: E90 323i vs. 325i

putting a 3.0L stroker to make it a 330i 258bhp! once and for all..
i could have done it if not b'cos of reliability issue! its very hard to make sure this mod is problem-free in the long run...

 

[petrus]

Re: E90 323i vs. 325i

Hi petrus,
Thanks for sharing your experience. So can I say that what you have done, i.e. remap, air filter, exhaust, etc, can get an increase of +22hp for your 523?

I just checked, and realised that the difference between new 523 and 525 is around $8k....not sure of the difference in the used car market.....

Hi.
This is for 523 xl (face lifted) version. This small price difference is why PML plans to stop bringing in the 523.
In the past the price difference was greater but the package for the 525 included active steering and GPS. In addition to the 40 BHP difference. Package together list price difference was ranged between 20 - 35 k.. It changed as the "newer" versions of the 523 came out.

Used market i am not sure. But dealers factor that in. But if you scrap, the difference isn't that much.

hope this helps.

best,
ptr

 

[petrus]

Re: E90 323i vs. 325i

hi bro,

no offence but i personally dun feel that with your mods the bhp can increase by 30. i also did the mods like air filter and exhaust, hiop, sprint booster, coil booster etc. and i went for a dyno, the figures werent impressive at all. just wanna check have u done a base dyno b4 you went for HIOP? cause its the best way to see the diff b4 n after. i have what u mentioned above but the results were appalling to me. i would say the gains were very minimal.

my best mods are my KW v2 although no bhp gain but the diff is very obvious as compared to stock.

my 2 cts.
regards

Hi Racing Aprilia.

None taken. Honestly, i never did the dyno figuring ignorance is bliss... in the sense, it could be just psychological... The car does feel different to me. As mentioned above, I am going on sheer figures given by the press i read on the material given to me or told by the tuner. After adding all in 202 -177 is only 25 bhp or about 15%. Not much to feel a difference for many.

What made me do what i could to change the car, is one day i was entering the expressway and was trying to get in front of a taxi.. And realiseed my stock 523 couldn't do it... really... sad..

I have however done a sprint with another friend 523 stock and mine did pull out a head by about half a car length. Not sure how to count that but there is a small difference. I can also now get in front of taxi...

As to the order. I did the hurricane air filter, HIOP tune, Exhaust, sprinter booster. Tuning was done at 6k mileage, the rest about 6k after.

Best,
ptr

 

[C3P0]

Re: E90 323i vs. 325i

Hi.
This is for 523 xl (face lifted) version. This small price difference is why PML plans to stop bringing in the 523.
In the past the price difference was greater but the package for the 525 included active steering and GPS. In addition to the 40 BHP difference. Package together list price difference was ranged between 20 - 35 k.. It changed as the "newer" versions of the 523 came out.

Used market i am not sure. But dealers factor that in. But if you scrap, the difference isn't that much.

hope this helps.

best,
ptr

Hi, thanks for the clarifications!

 

[GeekinE90]

Re: E90 323i vs. 325i

Hi,


also is the e90 series 323 and 325, are they having the same peak torque number ?

Not its not. As part of the detuning process, not just the peak torque is lower, but the torque curve is also "older generation" ala it peaks higher for the 323i (3500 rpms similar to the 6 pot older gen M54). E90 325i peaks lower at 2750 rpms. BMW has steadilly been improving the peak torque figures to come in at lower RPMs over the years. If you look at their engine output spec vs. Lexus and MB (same capacity) you'll notice that Lexus and MB are still producing peak torque figures from their N/A engines which are similar to much older generation BMW engines. Drive them too, and you'll notice more low end grunt from BMW engines from its competitors at the same engine displacement.

 

[clemgoh]

Re: E90 323i vs. 325i

Stage 3 Performance Upgrade for e90 323/325?
Thanks for the research. My months of desktop research too seems to indicate the following...

USA 325 and 330 is a 3 litre engine N52B30 but 325 is detuned - 1 stage intake manifold + lack high flow Exhaust + lower ECU tuning

So USA 325 upgrade to a 3 stage intake manifold + corresponding optinmised exhaust and ECU to match makes the 325 closer to the 330

However 325 e90 in Singapore is 2.5 litres unlike the USA models.

So since Singapore's 323 and 325 are 2.5 litres, this means that the 323 is a detuned version and likely a 1-stage intake manifold and so on....

Taking the same approach, the 3-stage intake + tuning (except the LHD/RHD exhaust issue) should take the 323 performance clower to that of a 325 ....

I did check before the Realoem site and believe that the 323 is 1-stage (since this will always be an odd model with a detune 2.5, but not sold in the USA except canada, Britan and some parts of Asia) and the USA 325 is also 1-stage (detuned but 3-litre engine) and thus, you will find no difference in the intake type mentioned.

So - Since 323 is a single stage - then a 3-stage will cetainly help with the right adjustments to ECU etc... surely and this is available for purchase at the turner motorsport site. Turner Motorsport - Item# TN52-ST3 - Stage 3 Performance Upgrade for 2006 325i (E90/E91) - Software & Intake/Exhaust Manifolds - E90 E91

Say if J4C can bring this in and refabricate the Exhaust to RHD? Then this would really boost the power than the limited ECU tweak without optimised airflow.

Comments anyone?
Cheers!

 

[piggyboyz]

Re: E90 323i vs. 325i

The primary difference between the 323i and the 325i is in the state of tune. The 323 got redline at 6500 whereas the 325i can redline at 7000rpm. 323i power peak at 5500rpm whereas 325i peak at 6300rpm thereabout.

There are no visible difference regardless of engine, manifold or exhaust. They are the same, just different mapping. However, there are no tuners out there (AFAIK) that can change and get pass the redline of BMW cars, especially automatic. Even if the tune can change the redline, the gearbox protection intervene and upshift at the designated redline set on the model.

In my SMG E46, they were not able to up the redline without the gearbox intervene. At Neutral, the rev bounce off at 7k rpm indicating the new software by tuner managed to bring up the rev but the gearbox will still change at 6500 on the move for the E46, let alone the E90. This is the real limiter to bring the 323i to 325i power.

 

[free2d]

Re: E90 323i vs. 325i

what are the performance chips available for 325? How much is the gain?

Thanks.

 

[newuser79]

Re: E90 323i vs. 325i

Hi.. newbie to beemer..

been thinking recently whether to get a used 323 or 320..

any seniors can help to comment?Is there really significant diff between the 2 models?

Ty..

 

[YakuzaWen]

Re: E90 323i vs. 325i

Hi hi, we just got a used 323 and loving every min of it. We were also comparing between the 323 and the 320 and after test driving both, the choice became very obvious for us. We started out looking for a point a to point b vehicle. The 323 just makes getting to point B so much sweeter

Dun get me wrong, the 320 is a very nice drive as well, u can't go wrong with the 50:50 weight distribution and rear wheel drive combi.... just that we feel the extra power from the 323 is just so much more delightful. On hindsight, we should have looked for a 325 since it's the same capacity engine but with much more Ooomph.

To make it easier, here are the reasons why u should get a 320 and not a 323...

1) The 2.5 litre road tax will kill you..
2) The fuel consumption of a 2.5 litre engine will kill you..
3) You can't appreciate why you should pay more to get from 0 - 100 in 1 second less..
4) You feel that a bimmer is a bimmer whether it's engine is 4 cylinder or 6...

If you disagree with all the above reasons, then the answer to your question becomes very clear

Hi.. newbie to beemer..

been thinking recently whether to get a used 323 or 320..

any seniors can help to comment?Is there really significant diff between the 2 models?

Ty..

 

[newuser79]

Re: E90 323i vs. 325i

Ha..lucky all yr 4 pts are not in my consideration..

guess my ans is clear? ha...
Just thinking, been all along driving Jap cars and also wanted to changed bk to a 4 door car so wanted to try a conti 4 door car fr a change.. N since never own a conti car b4.. so wanted to get a used one to get a feel and to get used to all the maintanence and misc cost of owning one..

Hmm.. for the same price range, I will be able to get a newer 320 but I truly can appreciate(in fact greatly appreciate) pt 3, why I should pay more to get from 0 - 100 even if is 1 second less..ha..more or less my mind is set.. now is to look out for gd deals.. and in the mean while will try to go and sit in both car and feel the diff...

Thanx YakuzaWen..

Hi hi, we just got a used 323 and loving every min of it. We were also comparing between the 323 and the 320 and after test driving both, the choice became very obvious for us. We started out looking for a point a to point b vehicle. The 323 just makes getting to point B so much sweeter

Dun get me wrong, the 320 is a very nice drive as well, u can't go wrong with the 50:50 weight distribution and rear wheel drive combi.... just that we feel the extra power from the 323 is just so much more delightful. On hindsight, we should have looked for a 325 since it's the same capacity engine but with much more Ooomph.

To make it easier, here are the reasons why u should get a 320 and not a 323...

1) The 2.5 litre road tax will kill you..
2) The fuel consumption of a 2.5 litre engine will kill you..
3) You can't appreciate why you should pay more to get from 0 - 100 in 1 second less..
4) You feel that a bimmer is a bimmer whether it's engine is 4 cylinder or 6...

If you disagree with all the above reasons, then the answer to your question becomes very clear