Electric water pump
- Thread starter chawanant
- Start date
ersalle71
Well-Known Member
Re: Electric water pump
Geeee i want one too, looks like this electric water pump is made in Australia. Found its website here Davies Craig - EWP
Geeee i want one too, looks like this electric water pump is made in Australia. Found its website here Davies Craig - EWP
Re: Electric water pump
Gains to be had, but please be very careful when choosing a pump or brand. Any type of engine that is operated for long durations whether for transport, or racing any longer of a duration than minutes, runs mechanical pumps and even if they don't they have other systems to carefully watch temps, trigger alarms, and shut things down. The risk-powergain trade is not worth it unless you are demanding a lot of your engine for short periods of time.
Gains to be had, but please be very careful when choosing a pump or brand. Any type of engine that is operated for long durations whether for transport, or racing any longer of a duration than minutes, runs mechanical pumps and even if they don't they have other systems to carefully watch temps, trigger alarms, and shut things down. The risk-powergain trade is not worth it unless you are demanding a lot of your engine for short periods of time.
Re: Electric water pump
I would agree with Shaun, to risk cooking the engine for a 5 ~ 7 bhp gain sounds like a bad trade off for me. For me to consider any mod, the durability and reliability of the engine and control systems must not be critically affected. Do have 2nd thought dude.
I would agree with Shaun, to risk cooking the engine for a 5 ~ 7 bhp gain sounds like a bad trade off for me. For me to consider any mod, the durability and reliability of the engine and control systems must not be critically affected. Do have 2nd thought dude.
centurion
Well-Known Member
Re: Electric water pump
All the upcoming BMWs would have electric water pump. Not only do they save the belt driven pump's drag on the engine, they can also save energy by switching on ONLY when needed. And since it loads the battery, this makes it so suited for BMW's regenerative braking. Did some sums with my dad last weekend and WOW he was so impressed by the simple idea he's having a project now to convert his current car to have regenerative braking. All we need is a accelerometer and a properly installed voltage sensor to sense a override situation and a relay for cutting off the charging circuit during acceleration. Trying for `all analog' electronics (dad's old skool)
All the upcoming BMWs would have electric water pump. Not only do they save the belt driven pump's drag on the engine, they can also save energy by switching on ONLY when needed. And since it loads the battery, this makes it so suited for BMW's regenerative braking. Did some sums with my dad last weekend and WOW he was so impressed by the simple idea he's having a project now to convert his current car to have regenerative braking. All we need is a accelerometer and a properly installed voltage sensor to sense a override situation and a relay for cutting off the charging circuit during acceleration. Trying for `all analog' electronics (dad's old skool)
Re: Electric water pump
Like you know I've said before, electronics and electrics can be made extremely reliable, but until a reputable organization or one that deals with large economies of scale makes it so, and at reasonable cost, will I recommend it, especially when the gain is next to nothing - in the original non-regenerative context.
=======
Currently, if it isn't...
1) by an extremely reputable company
2) costly
or
3) well documented and proven in a specific application, confirmed by a wide range of sources
1 and 2 go together. 2 is optional only through economies of scale. Failing 1 and 2, 3 can stand alone though how safe it is depends on how many points of reference you have on it and your assessment method.
Like you know I've said before, electronics and electrics can be made extremely reliable, but until a reputable organization or one that deals with large economies of scale makes it so, and at reasonable cost, will I recommend it, especially when the gain is next to nothing - in the original non-regenerative context.
=======
Currently, if it isn't...
1) by an extremely reputable company
2) costly
or
3) well documented and proven in a specific application, confirmed by a wide range of sources
1 and 2 go together. 2 is optional only through economies of scale. Failing 1 and 2, 3 can stand alone though how safe it is depends on how many points of reference you have on it and your assessment method.
centurion
Well-Known Member
Re: Electric water pump
Hey Shaun, your race cars have alternators too. Ever considered BMW-style regenerative braking, when your car decelerates the alternator is loaded, when the car accelerates it's disconnected from the charging circuit?
Coolest thing from BMW the last decade. Simple tech but nobody thought of it.
Hey Shaun, your race cars have alternators too. Ever considered BMW-style regenerative braking, when your car decelerates the alternator is loaded, when the car accelerates it's disconnected from the charging circuit?
Coolest thing from BMW the last decade. Simple tech but nobody thought of it.
Re: Electric water pump
I think the concept has been thought of many times and since a long time ago, just that energy efficiency has not been a focus, or cost effective, till now with all the crazy gas prices and them looking to get a whole lot worse.
As for racing, it is a good idea to stay at least remotely relevant to consumers. The cost of developing a highly reliable and efficient system for racing will be justified by trickle down to road cars. In the racing context alone, and with current regulation, it makes little sense because there is no focus on fuel efficiency. It is changing though.. led by LMP and soon F1.
caySman;214728 said:
I think the concept has been thought of many times and since a long time ago, just that energy efficiency has not been a focus, or cost effective, till now with all the crazy gas prices and them looking to get a whole lot worse.
As for racing, it is a good idea to stay at least remotely relevant to consumers. The cost of developing a highly reliable and efficient system for racing will be justified by trickle down to road cars. In the racing context alone, and with current regulation, it makes little sense because there is no focus on fuel efficiency. It is changing though.. led by LMP and soon F1.
Re: Electric water pump
It is something, but I don't know if I would call it considerable. I'd say somewhere under 10hp. There are cheaper more inefficient ways to make 10hp than to develop and package regen. systems. When public focus starts to shift towards efficiency, then regulations will evolve and push the teams to stay relevant, forcing them to go in that direction. F1 is making huge steps.
It is something, but I don't know if I would call it considerable. I'd say somewhere under 10hp. There are cheaper more inefficient ways to make 10hp than to develop and package regen. systems. When public focus starts to shift towards efficiency, then regulations will evolve and push the teams to stay relevant, forcing them to go in that direction. F1 is making huge steps.
centurion
Well-Known Member
Re: Electric water pump
My dad (engineer) gave me a simple idea, which he is working on.
Ingredients: good `loaded' voltmeter, G-sensor, relay, some circuitry
Algorithm:
If accelerometer is +, open relay, break charging circuit
If accelerometer is -, close relay, close charging circuit
Override: If loaded Voltage
shaun, you heard it here first.Shaun;215422 said:
My dad (engineer) gave me a simple idea, which he is working on.
Ingredients: good `loaded' voltmeter, G-sensor, relay, some circuitry
Algorithm:
If accelerometer is +, open relay, break charging circuit
If accelerometer is -, close relay, close charging circuit
Override: If loaded Voltage
Re: Electric water pump
It certainly seems like a good idea, but I'm not sure the OEMs would have passed up such a great 10 dollar system if it didn't have a weakness. I suspect that with current alternators, the override condition would exist much of the time (not enough time under neg. accel. to maintain charge given average vehicle draw), so you effectively end up at square one. I'm only guessing. Please let us know how it ends up. It would be great if it works.
It certainly seems like a good idea, but I'm not sure the OEMs would have passed up such a great 10 dollar system if it didn't have a weakness. I suspect that with current alternators, the override condition would exist much of the time (not enough time under neg. accel. to maintain charge given average vehicle draw), so you effectively end up at square one. I'm only guessing. Please let us know how it ends up. It would be great if it works.
centurion
Well-Known Member
Re: Electric water pump
What BMW did was that they increased the battery capacity, increasing 3kg in the process. For racing, when you brake so much compared to street car on the highway, I suspect that you might not even need the bigger capacity battery.
AND YOU KNOW WHAT THE FURTHER BONUS IS???? Wow, I nearly forgot to say. This is my dad's idea, not mine - The alternator can be made DAMN BIG (very high yield) so that the short charging time will yield enough charging, without needing to increase the size of the battery. For racecar applications, you can actually have ULTRACAPACITORS to store the charge and drive the car's ignition coils without needing to go to the battery. Traditionally, such big alternators were not used simply because they would add additional drag to the car, but since this thing only loads up the engine in deceleration mode, this `loading up' is actually GOOD for slowing down the car.
As with every engineer, it gets more and more complicated. Dad will finish his project first and I'll let you know the results (if he ever gets off his ass to do it!).
In order to know the true picture of what's happening, we need digital electronics to do a logging function through some serial port. If we go analog only, we will have to measure from fuel consumption on whether it's working or not.Shaun;215450 said:
What BMW did was that they increased the battery capacity, increasing 3kg in the process. For racing, when you brake so much compared to street car on the highway, I suspect that you might not even need the bigger capacity battery.
AND YOU KNOW WHAT THE FURTHER BONUS IS???? Wow, I nearly forgot to say. This is my dad's idea, not mine - The alternator can be made DAMN BIG (very high yield) so that the short charging time will yield enough charging, without needing to increase the size of the battery. For racecar applications, you can actually have ULTRACAPACITORS to store the charge and drive the car's ignition coils without needing to go to the battery. Traditionally, such big alternators were not used simply because they would add additional drag to the car, but since this thing only loads up the engine in deceleration mode, this `loading up' is actually GOOD for slowing down the car.
As with every engineer, it gets more and more complicated. Dad will finish his project first and I'll let you know the results (if he ever gets off his ass to do it!).
centurion
Well-Known Member
Re: Electric water pump
yeah, but faster shaft may be a more complicated solution. Anyway, the plan is to do it on a stock Denso alternator first. THEN refine. Concept out first, measure metrics, engineer refinement. This project actually makes my blood flow a little. Otherwise life is so boring.
yeah, but faster shaft may be a more complicated solution. Anyway, the plan is to do it on a stock Denso alternator first. THEN refine. Concept out first, measure metrics, engineer refinement. This project actually makes my blood flow a little. Otherwise life is so boring.
