Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?
- Thread starter Motofish
- Start date
Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?
To be real honest, PML is competant enough to do most of the jobs and solve the problems. Most of the time, the problem lies with the inability of the mechanic to successfull correlate the ground problems to the CSA. Remember the CSA just follows up with the work. I have to say that during my time when I had Anwar as my CSA, he was no different from a mechanic working on the car and a CSA. He knew EXACTLY what was wrong and solved it right away. Longest time my car ever been in PML was 2 days.
I guess with the newer slew of CSA's coming in, and zero automotive background, most of them find themself in a fix when talking to customers who know more than even the CSA by a far margin. The problem will eventually be solved but my advise is to clearly and most simply outline and explain to them the problem. Draw like a 3 yr old kid would do on an A3 paper. Its the only way to explain to some of them. And if anyone from BMW Asia or PML is reading this, I want a discount on an E92 M3.
To be real honest, PML is competant enough to do most of the jobs and solve the problems. Most of the time, the problem lies with the inability of the mechanic to successfull correlate the ground problems to the CSA. Remember the CSA just follows up with the work. I have to say that during my time when I had Anwar as my CSA, he was no different from a mechanic working on the car and a CSA. He knew EXACTLY what was wrong and solved it right away. Longest time my car ever been in PML was 2 days.
I guess with the newer slew of CSA's coming in, and zero automotive background, most of them find themself in a fix when talking to customers who know more than even the CSA by a far margin. The problem will eventually be solved but my advise is to clearly and most simply outline and explain to them the problem. Draw like a 3 yr old kid would do on an A3 paper. Its the only way to explain to some of them. And if anyone from BMW Asia or PML is reading this, I want a discount on an E92 M3.
Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?
Anwar is good and I had pleasant experience with Paul Wee as well. Kg Arang's boss Dennis tried hard to help most of the time. But that's too few good men to serve the BMW community.
Draw like a 3 years on A3 paper? - why should customers who paid top dollars for the cars pamper their CSA, treat them like innocent little children, tolerate their incompetencies and almost do their job for them, and take all these BS? Yes, we love the ultimate driving machines but there has to be limit to how much abuse I am willing to take.
I have fulfill a dream of owning a BMW and I sadly annouced that I have survived PML adventure for 3 years. Maybe the forum can print this 'T' Shirt "Survivor of PML mis-Adventure", sure to sell well. It's time to move on.........
Anwar is good and I had pleasant experience with Paul Wee as well. Kg Arang's boss Dennis tried hard to help most of the time. But that's too few good men to serve the BMW community.
Draw like a 3 years on A3 paper? - why should customers who paid top dollars for the cars pamper their CSA, treat them like innocent little children, tolerate their incompetencies and almost do their job for them, and take all these BS? Yes, we love the ultimate driving machines but there has to be limit to how much abuse I am willing to take.
I have fulfill a dream of owning a BMW and I sadly annouced that I have survived PML adventure for 3 years. Maybe the forum can print this 'T' Shirt "Survivor of PML mis-Adventure", sure to sell well. It's time to move on.........
Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?
Well knowing more than the PML crew is an advantage, well at least to me. Their standard operating procedure would be to say its normal and thats the way the car is designed, blah blah blah. You and I know thats bullsh|t. When you print out a TSB from the website and show it to them, they scratch their head. I tried that on my new CSA because Anwar has been promoted and no longer in Kg. Arang. If you do not, it is simply making the whole process longer. I am patient as long as they know what they are addressing. They should know all this technical service feedback from BMW AG but they dont mainly because the market here is not big enough for all the problems to be replicated unlike the continental US. So really, its really a situation of give and take and I am pretty cool with that. I know some of you expect more but i dont like waiting for stuff to be done on my car when they dont even know what is wrong. Assisting them in the right direction because of knowledge is a huge advantage because things can done the right way without any stupid tinkering of other parts/software that is totally uncalled for. And I have not seen anyone as famous as PML for that especially for many customers.
Motofish;326420 said:
Well knowing more than the PML crew is an advantage, well at least to me. Their standard operating procedure would be to say its normal and thats the way the car is designed, blah blah blah. You and I know thats bullsh|t. When you print out a TSB from the website and show it to them, they scratch their head. I tried that on my new CSA because Anwar has been promoted and no longer in Kg. Arang. If you do not, it is simply making the whole process longer. I am patient as long as they know what they are addressing. They should know all this technical service feedback from BMW AG but they dont mainly because the market here is not big enough for all the problems to be replicated unlike the continental US. So really, its really a situation of give and take and I am pretty cool with that. I know some of you expect more but i dont like waiting for stuff to be done on my car when they dont even know what is wrong. Assisting them in the right direction because of knowledge is a huge advantage because things can done the right way without any stupid tinkering of other parts/software that is totally uncalled for. And I have not seen anyone as famous as PML for that especially for many customers.
Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?
Good point. The same reason why I made 2 appointments, went on my lunch time 3 days before the actual appointment to discuss and explore with the CSA, maybe go for a test drive to shorten the time the car have to sit in the workshop. And the moron made be sit there for 45 mins while he conducts internal training.
Just so much more work required to maintain a BMW in SIN. Not so sure many people out there will be so resourceful and technical enough to do all the research you do before sending the car to PML. Question is why should we, the customers, be doing this?
Talking about stupid tinkering and software upgrades, my poor vehicle under went 4 software upgrades over 9 months to resolve another episode of fluctuating RPM in the 1st year. After all that screwing around with my car and compounding the car for many days in the workshop, they decided to change the instrument cluster (hardware) and the problem was resolved. :screwedu:
elmariachi;326447 said:
Good point. The same reason why I made 2 appointments, went on my lunch time 3 days before the actual appointment to discuss and explore with the CSA, maybe go for a test drive to shorten the time the car have to sit in the workshop. And the moron made be sit there for 45 mins while he conducts internal training.
Just so much more work required to maintain a BMW in SIN. Not so sure many people out there will be so resourceful and technical enough to do all the research you do before sending the car to PML. Question is why should we, the customers, be doing this?
Talking about stupid tinkering and software upgrades, my poor vehicle under went 4 software upgrades over 9 months to resolve another episode of fluctuating RPM in the 1st year. After all that screwing around with my car and compounding the car for many days in the workshop, they decided to change the instrument cluster (hardware) and the problem was resolved. :screwedu:
Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?
Yes we as customers should not be doing this at all. That I agree one hundred percent. But lurking in US forums has made me much more aware of alot of stuff that causes concern to me especially with the newer BMW updates which is why I have taken a keen interest on understanding the problems and why. If we don't do it, honestly its gonna be the case of batman raping robin. They wont know jackass with the car and they will keep delaying. Pity it is such in Singapore and even more of a concern with BMW cars being mainstream in the SIngapore market now with tonnes of potential. The service side has to exponentially expand their technical expertise to keep up with the amount of problems they will and have to anticipate. For now, lets say that is a farcry.
See what I mean. Newer updates dont necessarily mean better performance or more stability. The process of troubleshooting and isolating a uncommon fault is very unorganised with PML. Very being a grave understatement. But to enjoy the car sometimes, learning a lot about the car from various sources give you the power when dealing with PML especially these ppl are lost as hell. I hate waiting for things to be done on my car and hate it even more when they touch something unrelated. So thats why sometimes its good having more ammo to deal with PML than having nothing at all and only to be intimidated by PML's BS assesment theories which I have particularly enjoyed and laughed after hearing loads of stories from this forum and through peers. Really this is whats the scenario today. But it is changing somewhat I feel with the recent service I have sent my car in. Things seems better. Well, only time will tell.
Motofish;326453 said:
Yes we as customers should not be doing this at all. That I agree one hundred percent. But lurking in US forums has made me much more aware of alot of stuff that causes concern to me especially with the newer BMW updates which is why I have taken a keen interest on understanding the problems and why. If we don't do it, honestly its gonna be the case of batman raping robin. They wont know jackass with the car and they will keep delaying. Pity it is such in Singapore and even more of a concern with BMW cars being mainstream in the SIngapore market now with tonnes of potential. The service side has to exponentially expand their technical expertise to keep up with the amount of problems they will and have to anticipate. For now, lets say that is a farcry.
See what I mean. Newer updates dont necessarily mean better performance or more stability. The process of troubleshooting and isolating a uncommon fault is very unorganised with PML. Very being a grave understatement. But to enjoy the car sometimes, learning a lot about the car from various sources give you the power when dealing with PML especially these ppl are lost as hell. I hate waiting for things to be done on my car and hate it even more when they touch something unrelated. So thats why sometimes its good having more ammo to deal with PML than having nothing at all and only to be intimidated by PML's BS assesment theories which I have particularly enjoyed and laughed after hearing loads of stories from this forum and through peers. Really this is whats the scenario today. But it is changing somewhat I feel with the recent service I have sent my car in. Things seems better. Well, only time will tell.
centurion
Well-Known Member
Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?
troubleshooting is an art. I remember Michael Wisely of Daimler-Benz, the chief tech at C&C. He was magical. He looked at the problem, smell this smell that, look here look there, listen, ask some questions, and he would have the correct diagnosis.
He's magical.
Some computer guys, just by hearing the system, looking at it, feeling it, they intuit the problem.
But FEW people have the talent.
If you don't have the talent you gotta do replace here and there. So messy and time consuming.
troubleshooting is an art. I remember Michael Wisely of Daimler-Benz, the chief tech at C&C. He was magical. He looked at the problem, smell this smell that, look here look there, listen, ask some questions, and he would have the correct diagnosis.
He's magical.
Some computer guys, just by hearing the system, looking at it, feeling it, they intuit the problem.
But FEW people have the talent.
If you don't have the talent you gotta do replace here and there. So messy and time consuming.
Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?
In the original post, I mentioned that I was reaching the end of my warranty period so I will be taking the car to recommended workshop like J4C and BVO from now on. If they can take care of the car well, plus some fun mods along the way, maybe that will prolong my love affair with this Bimmer. Unless someone give me a free Bimmer, I am not dealing with PML morons again.
In the original post, I mentioned that I was reaching the end of my warranty period so I will be taking the car to recommended workshop like J4C and BVO from now on. If they can take care of the car well, plus some fun mods along the way, maybe that will prolong my love affair with this Bimmer. Unless someone give me a free Bimmer, I am not dealing with PML morons again.
fasterthanferrari
Well-Known Member
Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?
The same reason why amusement parks makes you wait 2 hrs for a roller coaster ride on a Monday morning...now I'm afraid of roller coaster rides.
Motofish;326287 said:
The same reason why amusement parks makes you wait 2 hrs for a roller coaster ride on a Monday morning...now I'm afraid of roller coaster rides.
desertfox65
Well-Known Member
Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?
It is best to refer to E90post.com they really do have a lot of info; post your problem there, since they do not have the 320 in US you are not likely to recieve many responses. The BMW TIS does give some answers but it is hard to navigate and sometimes description of the problem is too general. In my exeprince with PML if you are not very specific about the issue and te circumstances it occurs, the service advisor is not going to understand it. BMW sets payments and charges by what is called FRU , in vague cases a lot of time is spent in diagnosing the problems. I have had an experince where thay failed to solve a problem on the 320i for 4 months; eventually PML came back with cylinder head replacement on recommendation of bmw-asia. Do a search of this problem. It could be the eccentric cam shaft sensor on the valvetronic system, however the spark plugs must be replaced. I do not think in this weather and driving conditions you can really take them to 100K km. THe newer cars sold in Singapore have a 10K km service interval vs. 25K km before. I wonder if the CSA mentioned if they came back with any fault codes from your cars OBD?
It is best to refer to E90post.com they really do have a lot of info; post your problem there, since they do not have the 320 in US you are not likely to recieve many responses. The BMW TIS does give some answers but it is hard to navigate and sometimes description of the problem is too general. In my exeprince with PML if you are not very specific about the issue and te circumstances it occurs, the service advisor is not going to understand it. BMW sets payments and charges by what is called FRU , in vague cases a lot of time is spent in diagnosing the problems. I have had an experince where thay failed to solve a problem on the 320i for 4 months; eventually PML came back with cylinder head replacement on recommendation of bmw-asia. Do a search of this problem. It could be the eccentric cam shaft sensor on the valvetronic system, however the spark plugs must be replaced. I do not think in this weather and driving conditions you can really take them to 100K km. THe newer cars sold in Singapore have a 10K km service interval vs. 25K km before. I wonder if the CSA mentioned if they came back with any fault codes from your cars OBD?
Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?
Used to be a regular at E90post.com, even have their decal on my side window. Unfortunately no 4 pot 320i there, the american might even think that this is a rare collector's item. With some of the CSA in PML, I have given up trying to working with them. Tried to explain the problem and all I get was the impression that he wanted me to leave the car there and the machanics will run the computer programs and conduct tests. It will take several working days as its complex. No commitment on when I will see my car again. In the past I had to live with this poor attitute because of warranty. Coming to the end of the warranty period so I am going to let it go. Some may call this stupid but I just can't stand the sight of that moron anymore. So no more BMW for me but I will conitnue to enjoy the 320 as long as I can with external maintenance. You are right about the plugs, plan to change them very soon and hope that the fluctuating RPM will go away with PML.
Used to be a regular at E90post.com, even have their decal on my side window. Unfortunately no 4 pot 320i there, the american might even think that this is a rare collector's item. With some of the CSA in PML, I have given up trying to working with them. Tried to explain the problem and all I get was the impression that he wanted me to leave the car there and the machanics will run the computer programs and conduct tests. It will take several working days as its complex. No commitment on when I will see my car again. In the past I had to live with this poor attitute because of warranty. Coming to the end of the warranty period so I am going to let it go. Some may call this stupid but I just can't stand the sight of that moron anymore. So no more BMW for me but I will conitnue to enjoy the 320 as long as I can with external maintenance. You are right about the plugs, plan to change them very soon and hope that the fluctuating RPM will go away with PML.
desertfox65
Well-Known Member
Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?
Well you can always write to BMW directly about your issue and mention pml, you will recieve a response. It is true that if they really want to work out the root cause they may keep your car , but you might get a courtsey car for days they keep yours in the work shop. Just because your car is close to end of warranty does not absolve either BMW or PML from their commitments.
Well you can always write to BMW directly about your issue and mention pml, you will recieve a response. It is true that if they really want to work out the root cause they may keep your car , but you might get a courtsey car for days they keep yours in the work shop. Just because your car is close to end of warranty does not absolve either BMW or PML from their commitments.
desertfox65
Well-Known Member
Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?
go to their website and put your issues in feedback do not forget to add your VIN and be a bit patient...
go to their website and put your issues in feedback do not forget to add your VIN and be a bit patient...
Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?
I've been driving my 523LCI for about 5mths, clocked about 9000km. It was problem free all this while until a fine day last week when I experienced what happened to Motofish's car. At the lights, the rpm jumped between 600 to 900 and I could feel the jerks quite badly. I made it home, but the car stalled a few time on the way back.
Next day, I brought it in to PML and did the oil change as well. When I picked up the car, I was told that they could not find any fault and to resolve the car stall problem, they increased the idle speed. Wonder if this is just a quick fix and if there's really some other problem? What caused the engine to suddenly sputter at the original idle speed when it was alright all along?
I've been driving my 523LCI for about 5mths, clocked about 9000km. It was problem free all this while until a fine day last week when I experienced what happened to Motofish's car. At the lights, the rpm jumped between 600 to 900 and I could feel the jerks quite badly. I made it home, but the car stalled a few time on the way back.
Next day, I brought it in to PML and did the oil change as well. When I picked up the car, I was told that they could not find any fault and to resolve the car stall problem, they increased the idle speed. Wonder if this is just a quick fix and if there's really some other problem? What caused the engine to suddenly sputter at the original idle speed when it was alright all along?
