Japan Quake Aftermath

[dash]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

This is one of the most heartbreaking pictures I've ever seen.

A picture paints a thousand words.
I'm a parent, and I would never wished for anyone to go thru the anguish this mother must be feeling now.
Japan, pls be strong. My prayers and thoughts go out to you.

 

[pbear1973]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

A picture paints a thousand words.
I'm a parent, and I would never wished for anyone to go thru the anguish this mother must be feeling now.
Japan, pls be strong. My prayers and thoughts go out to you.

On a different note: I'm wary of online efforts to collect donations because of the high chance of fraud, but this is from the Japanese Red Cross Society so I think it's legit. If you want to donate, details are here:

JAPANESE RED CROSS SOCIETY?Japan?Earthquake?Donation

 

[zorro]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

The chance of complete meltdown of the nuclear cells is high and the impact is unimaginable...I used to think the Anti-nuclear group are nuts but the recent events clearly illustrate the danger of nuclear power in an unstable geographical and densely populated countries..

I think we should speed up the development of green energy and tap energy form sun, wind and wave/sea. Can u imagine that Spore is also considering building a nuclear plant and where can the people evacuate if there is a major incident? ...

 

[pbear1973]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

The chance of complete meltdown of the nuclear cells is high and the impact is unimaginable...I used to think the Anti-nuclear group are nuts but the recent events clearly illustrate the danger of nuclear power in an unstable geographical and densely populated countries..

I think we should speed up the development of green energy and tap energy form sun, wind and wave/sea. Can u imagine that Spore is also considering building a nuclear plant and where can the people evacuate if there is a major incident? ...

It's not _anywhere_ as bad as what the (often anti-nuclear, or at least melodramatic) press is trumpeting. In the worst case the core will melt down completely into the bottom of the Third Containment Unit, which is designed exactly for that purpose - the hold the melted core and spread it out so that it can cool down and solidify.

Now that the cores are flooded it's extremely unlikely that this will even happen.

Here is an article hosted by the Department of Nuclear Science and Engineering at MIT with a more realistic assessment than what you read in the press.

MIT NSE Nuclear Information Hub | Information about the incident at the Fukushima Nuclear Plants in Japan

 

[pbear1973]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

It's not _anywhere_ as bad as what the (often anti-nuclear, or at least melodramatic) press is trumpeting. In the worst case the core will melt down completely into the bottom of the Third Containment Unit, which is designed exactly for that purpose - the hold the melted core and spread it out so that it can cool down and solidify.

Now that the cores are flooded it's extremely unlikely that this will even happen.

Here is an article hosted by the Department of Nuclear Science and Engineering at MIT with a more realistic assessment than what you read in the press.

MIT NSE Nuclear Information Hub | Information about the incident at the Fukushima Nuclear Plants in Japan

Update: According to TEPCO Reactors 1 and 3 are now stable.

The media is practically rubbing their hands together gleefully and hoping for a dramatic Chernobyl-style disaster so that they can sell more copies, so take what they say with a ton of salt.

Shame on them.

 

[wt_know]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

it's good and bad la .... just that reader has to be calm and rational
it's difficult to have an unbiased view

reporter/news - want to sensationalise the story and reporting
gov/authority/company - want to play down the effect/impact and say things are undercontrol and risk of cover up and too late if shits happen

just watched the press conference that japanese ministry and tepco person incharged are grilled heavily by reporters

 

[pbear1973]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

it's good and bad la .... just that reader has to be calm and rational
it's difficult to have an unbiased view

reporter/news - want to sensationalise the story and reporting
gov/authority/company - want to play down the effect/impact and say things are undercontrol and risk of cover up and too late if shits happen

just watched the press conference that japanese ministry and tepco person incharged are grilled heavily by reporters

True, but that said the Japanese Government's response to this crisis has been very swift and effective. Everyone within a 10 km radius was evacuated quickly before the engineers started venting steam from the core.

The steam, while radioactive, is relatively harmless because the caesium and iodine isotopes are highly unstable and decay quickly to relatively harmless elements (of course caesium, being a heavy metal, is itself hardly harmless).

 

[zorro]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

Yesterday evening, the authority reported drop of pressure in the pressure vessel signalling potential damages to the presurre vessel. Hope the MIT guys are right cause I still want to eat shasimi from Japan..

I dont think at the moment the situation is stable as the explosion due to released Hydrogen reacting with atmosphere O2 during venting can cause damages to the containment vessel. If you watch the NHK news and the hourly press conference by the Tohoku Power Co's spokesman, you can sense that he is getting more worried as time progress..

 

[pbear1973]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

Yesterday evening, the authority reported drop of pressure in the pressure vessel signalling potential damages to the presurre vessel. Hope the MIT guys are right cause I still want to eat shasimi from Japan..

I dont think at the moment the situation is stable as the explosion due to released Hydrogen reacting with atmosphere O2 during venting can cause damages to the containment vessel. If you watch the NHK news and the hourly press conference by the Tohoku Power Co's spokesman, you can sense that he is getting more worried as time progress..

I doubt it will even crack Containment Unit 3, let alone the 15 cm of steel in Containment Unit 2 (which is inside CU3). So no there will be no big kaboom with radioactive fuel flying everywhere, ala Chernobyl.

The problem with Chernobyl is that the reactor was so poorly designed that it trapped hydrogen (caused by water contacting the hot rods) INSIDE the reactor, and then the hydrogen exploded blowing off the cover of the reactor. The same thing chain of events occurred at Fukushima but because the reactor was properly designed, the hydrogen vented into the building and exploded OUTSIDE the reactor.

Cracked pressure vessel? That doesn't mean anything. There are multiple containment units to deal with exactly such a situation. Can all the containment units fail? Sure, but that's exactly why the engineers are working so hard - to prevent exactly this from happening.

Nuclear power isn't 101% safe - anyone who says so is insane. But neither is it anywhere as dangerous as what the media claims.

As for our worried spokesman - of course he's worried. You would be too if you know your colleagues are at terrible risk trying to contain the situation. But is the entire region at risk? The answer is a big resounding NO.

Incidentally unlike what the media is implying, the temperature in the core WILL NOT rise indefinitely. This is because all the control rods have been fully inserted and the nuclear reaction has stopped. The problem the engineers are dealing with is "residual heat", caused by fission by-products decaying over the course of several days. Because there is no more nuclear fission, the amount of by-products is fixed and rapidly falling. Eventually there will be no more by-products and therefore no more heat. The engineers have to keep the reactor flooded until this happens, and that's exactly what they have achieved.

So once again, no "Japan go boom!". Sorry to disappoint Greenpeace and the media.

 

[wt_know]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

pbear work in nuclear biz? very chim but i like it ... keep it coming

 

[pbear1973]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

pbear work in nuclear biz? very chim but i like it ... keep it coming

Haha I wish. No lah but it's one of my side interests. When I was much younger (early teens) I always thought about building my own nuclear reactor. Good thing I didn't try. This guy did.. haha:

The Radioactive Boy Scout

The unfunny thing though is that his health is really bad these days because of his earlier experiments.. so it's a good thing I never got started. Xp

 

[zorro]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

Tell me where you stay and I will keep myself 20km away from you. Btw what is the CU3 in your your post? Cu is copper ..chemistry not my strong points..

Haha I wish. No lah but it's one of my side interests. When I was much younger (early teens) I always thought about building my own nuclear reactor. Good thing I didn't try. This guy did.. haha:

The Radioactive Boy Scout

The unfunny thing though is that his health is really bad these days because of his earlier experiments.. so it's a good thing I never got started. Xp

 

[pbear1973]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

Tell me where you stay and I will keep myself 20km away from you.

Hahahaha.. West Coast. You?

 

[zorro]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

Thank God....Upper east Coast...pls inform me 6 months in advance if you decided to move one day... What is CU3?

Hahahaha.. West Coast. You?

 

[pbear1973]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

Thank God....Upper east Coast...pls inform me 6 months in advance if you decided to move one day... What is CU3?

No problem...

CU3 = Containment Unit 3, the final line of defense before the radioactive fuel actually leaks out. It's a large thick concrete structure with a wide floor pan to catch the molten fuel and spread it out so that it can cool down.

CU1 is a zirconium (synthetic diamond) shield that melts at 3,000 degrees, while CU2 is a massive steel container. When the Japanese authorities said that there was a partial meltdown, they meant that some of the fuel rods have started to deform and melt, but it doesn't mean that the fuel is getting out to the environment anytime soon. To do that it must go through the zirconium shield, then the thick steel shield, then the thick concrete shield.

There are meltdowns, and then there are REAL meltdowns. Just like there are heart-attacks that kill a person, and heart-attacks that don't. None are good, but neither are they exactly the same thing.

That said; a nuclear reactor made of aluminum foil and duct tape is probably a really bad idea.

 

[zorro]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

Things dont look so bright,,

Radiation levels spike at Japanese nuclear plant - CNN.com

Asia stock market is now collapsing.....

 

[pbear1973]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

Things dont look so bright,,

Radiation levels spike at Japanese nuclear plant - CNN.com

Asia stock market is not collapsing.....

I think anytime gases that have been in the reactor ignite and explode, you should expect a spike in radiation. And anytime there's been an explosion - you can expect fire. So the plants being on fire is hardly surprising.

I love how CNN quotes the Sandia physicist:

"The buildup of hydrogen in the reactor vessels is the first sign that things are going haywire"

Umm.. yeah.. that's why it's an emergency. If things weren't going haywire, there'd be no emergency, yes? More example of media melodrama.

 

[dash]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

Wow pbear.
That was cheem.
U sound like a professor. Hee, I better not talk so much lest I appear less clever. Haha
Million dollar question....so means Singapore is safe?

 

[pbear1973]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

Wow pbear.
That was cheem.
U sound so clever. I better not talk so much lest I appear less clever.
Million dollar question....so means Singapore is safe?

Duh.. clever? Haha.. no, just very opinionated. Yeah we're safe; Chernobyl was a level 7 disaster (the most serious level with actual release of radioactive fuel into the air) that spread contamination a few thousand kilometers. The first hint of trouble was when Swedish nuclear reactor workers found traces of radioactive dust on themselves 1,500 km away.

We're 5500 km away and it's unlikely that Fukushima will go beyond being a level 4 disaster. Actually even sushi will continue to be safe.

 

[MW]

Re: Japan Quake Aftermath

Excellent write up by pbear as well as the world nuclear news link one. But would you go to Japan now with all these media scare? I dunno whether I should feel relieved now or continue to be led by the media...