Singapore Aerospace Car - Beware if your car is SAA141

[Mockngbrd]

Re: Singapore Aerospace Car - Beware if your car is SAA141

Buyers should be empowered to make better informed decisions.

Agree with youuu......

 

[ferd]

Re: Singapore Aerospace Car - Beware if your car is SAA141

IMHO, this AA deal was nothing fantastic... the professional chauffers are just simply irresponsible... and the person who engaged these chauffers ought to be shot.

 

[MARK]

Re: Singapore Aerospace Car - Beware if your car is SAA141

Occassionally we see new cars being 'delivered' using trade plates on the NS highway. I truly pity those innocent buyers.

In the 'ole' days, car engines needed an oil change at the 1000km mark. These days, most cars do not require servicing until much much later.

Does this means that engines are pre-run in ex factory and hence modern drivers need not run in their car?

 

[SMYUEN]

Re: Singapore Aerospace Car - Beware if your car is SAA141

I think this "pre-run-in" is always the subject of endless conversations..

I suppose there is some element of truth. But the best gauge is the driver/owner himself. Most of us will remember the "tightness" of our brand new car, which always get better with accumulated mileage. So I still believe on-road run in is essential.

 

[SEI]

Re: Singapore Aerospace Car - Beware if your car is SAA141

i read somewhere in the internet that the new engines its better if u just drive it like nuts

 

[bmwnut]

Re: Singapore Aerospace Car - Beware if your car is SAA141

i agree with u SMYUEN...
sometimes, the discount is not really worth it...
cos what u see, may not entirely be what u get
it also comes with responsibilities... which one might be unwilling to take fully..
and also the agent might not take fully either...

 

[SMYUEN]

Re: Singapore Aerospace Car - Beware if your car is SAA141

IMHO, this AA deal was nothing fantastic... the professional chauffers are just simply irresponsible... and the person who engaged these chauffers ought to be shot.

You are absolutely spot-on..

That was my point exactly in my earlier posts... in order for such a deal to be even worth consideration, the price has to be way lower.

So what if the AA buyer is the 1st registered owner? His car has already done 1000km!!! And probably improperly run-in!

With regards to the chauffers, I dun think PML gives much care or concern. And to be fair, they have limited control over these drivers once they get behind the wheel...

Only way is if they can programme such "AA" cars such that the car cannot be pushed beyond say 4000rpm - like some limp home mode thingy.

Until some solution is found, I find this AA-deal rather superflous. And I do pity those who made un-informed choices... My heart will be damn pain if i know my brand new car was thrashed about even before I could warm the driver seat!! sigh....

Sometimes, "cheap" may not be "wise"; worse when its not that "cheap" afterall.

Again, all IMHO.

 

[SMYUEN]

Re: Singapore Aerospace Car - Beware if your car is SAA141

i read somewhere in the internet that the new engines its better if u just drive it like nuts

wah...serious???

care to share the information?

I think its slow, gradual loading of your engine speeds thats important.
And then drive it nuts when its run-in!!

hahahaha

 

[SEI]

Re: Singapore Aerospace Car - Beware if your car is SAA141

found it... here read

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

 

[Shaun]

Re: Singapore Aerospace Car - Beware if your car is SAA141

Not sure it is a good idea to listen to anyone who has beer and bikini women as sponsors on their website proclaiming truth.

Have had at least 6 discussions at different times with some very good minds in the industry. Conclusion all the time is that Motoman's logic and claims cannot stand. Many of Motoman's other articles are way off too.

Below is one excerpt I previously sent to a friend, another that was sent to a mailing list at a seperate time, and another on another forum. All over the span of 3 years.

=================

> > Regarding run, I say stick to whatever the
> > manufacturer recommends. If there is no
> > recommendation, then the important thing is to
> vary
> > RPM and never let it really sit still at a certain
> RPM
> > for too long (like cruising constant 90km/h on the
> > highway at say 2500 RPM). Keep RPM changing as
> much
> > as is practical. 1000-1500 RPM variation every 5
> > seconds or so should be enough. Loading - just
> run
> > average to low loads. Do not load heavily till
> car is
> > THOROUGHLY warmed up. Do not load heavily on
> purpose.
> > If you accidentally load heavily (after fully
> warmed
> > up) by accident for a few seconds it is not a big
> deal
> > but do not do it intentionally and/or for extended
> > periods of time. Manufacturer recommendation
> rules
> > all. If they have a max RPM limit, you still want
> to
> > vary RPM as much as practical within that limit.


======

Not runing in properly can lead to anything from
increase load on the cooling system from ring-wall
friction, excess blowby leading to poor quality oil
and oil consumption, etc. etc. Things don't usually
get very bad with poor run in, but they certainly can
snowball out of control once any factor is set off.

==========


There are too many variables in an engine for which to specify a generic break in procedure. Cylinder bore finish (hatch depth, frequency, peak flatness, crosshatch angle), ring material, ring width, cylinder wall material, ring coatings, ring tension, combustion pressure, etc. Only the manafacturer knows this and only they are fit to recommend a run in procedure.

Note that motoman is talking about bike engines - which develop considerably less cylinder pressure than most automotive engines . Even then he cannot possibly have more test/teardown data than the bike manafacturers. Again, all the variables in the first paragraph apply.

Run in is also not only for cylinder seal, but for other areas of the car.

=============

> You are certainly right about break-in
> being
> > a contentious
> > > topic. No offense, but I don't really think
> we
> > should be promoting
> > > the message of any-run-in because for each of
> the
> > hundreds of
> > > thousands of permutations of factors like ring
> > materials, tensions,
> > > coatings, designs - bore materials, finishes
> (highly
> > specific), oil
> > > properties - combustion pressures, there are in
> fact
> > good and bad ways
> > > to run them in.
> > >
> > > There have been a few proponents of the hard
> run-in
> > process (most
> > > prominently the credibility-lacking Motoman) ,
> but
> > I've never seen one
> > > that can speak for all permutations or even know
> > exactly which
> > > permutation a specific model engine runs and one
> > processes the factory
> > > has run. Only the factory has access to all the
> > information and has a
> > > wide enough span of testing which ends up in a
> > recommendation that is
> > > closest to ideal.
> > >
> > > So I think I will stick to factory
> recommendations
> > on my factory engines.
> > > In other builds where I have control of how I'm
> > building the engine
> > > and have my own or my community test results
> with
> > very specific engine
> > > combinations running the same permutation, we'll
> run
> > our own run-in
> > > process. If there is a friendly and more
> successful
> > company that has
> > > done more testing on that specific combination,
> I'll
> > test out their
> > > recommendation. In the case of OEM stuff, there
> is
> > none bigger than
> > > the manufacturer. If I had say a production car and a
> > friend of mine also
> > > had the same model and he already ran his in hard and was
> > experiencing no
> > > problems, I still would stick to the
> manufacturer
> > recommendations
> > > because manufacturer tolerances are still
> relatively
> > poor and they can
> > > easily stack up and get really bad. The
> manufacturer
> > recommendations
> > > are in all likelyhood tailored to the mean
> product -
> > and since we
> > > don't know what we get without tearing the new
> > engine apart and
> > > measuring and re-assembling everything
> ourselves, I
> > believe we're
> > > better off listening to the manufacturer.

============

You also do not want to run the engine hard with lots of particulate in the oil, as is common in any new engine.

 

[SMYUEN]

Re: Singapore Aerospace Car - Beware if your car is SAA141

Shaun,

Thanks for the input.

Cheers.

 

[Shaun]

Re: Singapore Aerospace Car - Beware if your car is SAA141

Anytime SM. Just happened to have email records of same topic that recently came up between friend and I.

 

[SMYUEN]

Re: Singapore Aerospace Car - Beware if your car is SAA141

Anytime SM. Just happened to have email records of same topic that recently came up between friend and I.

Its good that guys like you who have proper technical expertise and training speak up...
I am sure it will help buyers make informed decisions...


And I am glad I run-in my cars properly!