Re: What an expensive day! Starter motor replacement.
Labour $180?......:uhhh:
Labour $180?......:uhhh:
What an expensive day! Starter motor replacement.
- Thread starter lkm
- Start date
lkm
Well-Known Member
Re: What an expensive day! Starter motor replacement.
Like I mentioned in my opening post, I understand that workshops need to mark up on parts to make money. Every business is entitled to do that. My gripe is on the AMOUNT of mark up - in this case, almost DOUBLE the price I could get from a stockist ($200 vs $390). Remember - the stockist is a business too, and they need to mark up to make money. I'm not totally sure, but I believe workshops who regular buy from a single supplier tend to get discounts too. So in this case, the mark up may be more than 100%!
Now, I've never went anywhere near to suggest they are crooks or cheats. They are not. But I wouldn't consider their service quality top-notch either. Perhaps I've not started a relationship with them, but when I tried asking a few more questions, I get the sense that they were trying to brush me off.
Like I said, every business is entitled to their mark up to make money - take a look at PML! But I believe the internet and this forum is all about transparent sharing. Just like some drivers continue to return to PML for servicing of their cars even after warranty despite knowing that they are more expensive, so be it! At least that's an informed choice. My point of this starting this post is not to rant, but merely to share information on the amount of mark-up some workshops add to parts. And also hopefully to elicit some constructive feedback and response such as bro kenntona's sharing that R2D's charges are more than 30% cheaper!
delrosa81;1105101 said:I had the same issue and replaced it for exactly the same amount you paid. I know which workshop you went to and it is a site sponsor here. Frankly workshops markup on parts and earn labour as well, they need to survive too. They have given me good service always so Im cool
Like I mentioned in my opening post, I understand that workshops need to mark up on parts to make money. Every business is entitled to do that. My gripe is on the AMOUNT of mark up - in this case, almost DOUBLE the price I could get from a stockist ($200 vs $390). Remember - the stockist is a business too, and they need to mark up to make money. I'm not totally sure, but I believe workshops who regular buy from a single supplier tend to get discounts too. So in this case, the mark up may be more than 100%!
Now, I've never went anywhere near to suggest they are crooks or cheats. They are not. But I wouldn't consider their service quality top-notch either. Perhaps I've not started a relationship with them, but when I tried asking a few more questions, I get the sense that they were trying to brush me off.
Like I said, every business is entitled to their mark up to make money - take a look at PML! But I believe the internet and this forum is all about transparent sharing. Just like some drivers continue to return to PML for servicing of their cars even after warranty despite knowing that they are more expensive, so be it! At least that's an informed choice. My point of this starting this post is not to rant, but merely to share information on the amount of mark-up some workshops add to parts. And also hopefully to elicit some constructive feedback and response such as bro kenntona's sharing that R2D's charges are more than 30% cheaper!
Re: What an expensive day! Starter motor replacement.
2 weeks ago my colleague 5 yr old e90 320 alternator broke down. so he drove to bukit merah to a workshop that do bmw. the boss told him alternator is 800 for oem and 1k plus for one with bkw logo. the boss say just charge 60 for labour. so he is a noob and call me and i call eng soon. the alternator is only 400 by bosch. so i call him back and he tell the boss. the boss LL and quote cheapest 500, he need to esrn and charge 20 more for labour so total instead of 860, it become 580. seems like the trend is to mark up 100% for parts.
thats why workshop owner all are actually very rich n do quite well even thou their workshop not crowded. for those crowded one, their pocket usually deeper than all car owner i think.
2 weeks ago my colleague 5 yr old e90 320 alternator broke down. so he drove to bukit merah to a workshop that do bmw. the boss told him alternator is 800 for oem and 1k plus for one with bkw logo. the boss say just charge 60 for labour. so he is a noob and call me and i call eng soon. the alternator is only 400 by bosch. so i call him back and he tell the boss. the boss LL and quote cheapest 500, he need to esrn and charge 20 more for labour so total instead of 860, it become 580. seems like the trend is to mark up 100% for parts.
thats why workshop owner all are actually very rich n do quite well even thou their workshop not crowded. for those crowded one, their pocket usually deeper than all car owner i think.
Red_Bean_Bun
Well-Known Member
Re: What an expensive day! Starter motor replacement.
With stockists etc selling direct retail - those 100% markup days are over ....
Some workshops think that car owners are like really dumb .....
With stockists etc selling direct retail - those 100% markup days are over ....
Some workshops think that car owners are like really dumb .....
Terras14;1105126 said:
Re: What an expensive day! Starter motor replacement.
All WS need to make a living so what they charge will definitely be more than stockists, else how to cover costs and call it a business with profits.
There's no need to rant or complain. If we find it expensive, just go to another WS. Having said, in my early days of owning BMWs, I must say I have also encountered some 'reputable' WS anyhow carrot the clients, and for the smallest things. Worst still, they mess up your car(so called reputable WS). Maybe some of them think BMW owners look like a carrot, so just chop anyway. If they dont chop another WS will.
Open secret - for eg, most WS charge around $170-180 to do EO service (oil + oil filter) for an E90 320.
I use to find that acceptable, but I have since stopped going to WS to do such EO change not because I find it pricey but because they dont use the EO that I like - Castrol German formula. I am now actually DIY-ing EO change, not because I wanted to Kiam-Kannah, but for the fun of it. Of course, in doing so, I also saved half the cost as well.
All WS need to make a living so what they charge will definitely be more than stockists, else how to cover costs and call it a business with profits.
There's no need to rant or complain. If we find it expensive, just go to another WS. Having said, in my early days of owning BMWs, I must say I have also encountered some 'reputable' WS anyhow carrot the clients, and for the smallest things. Worst still, they mess up your car(so called reputable WS). Maybe some of them think BMW owners look like a carrot, so just chop anyway. If they dont chop another WS will.
Open secret - for eg, most WS charge around $170-180 to do EO service (oil + oil filter) for an E90 320.
I use to find that acceptable, but I have since stopped going to WS to do such EO change not because I find it pricey but because they dont use the EO that I like - Castrol German formula. I am now actually DIY-ing EO change, not because I wanted to Kiam-Kannah, but for the fun of it. Of course, in doing so, I also saved half the cost as well.
JuzMe
Well-Known Member
Re: What an expensive day! Starter motor replacement.
Site sponsors don't neccessarily mean good services and prices. I've been to a number of WS and learn my lesson, stick to the ones who have been providing me services that I'm happy with. Some of the WS near my place or office provide sh*tty services and prices. That include some of the site sponsored ones. Stand by what I said, some of these WS are pure cr@p!
Lesson learn, stick to the ones you're happy with. Convinience and some site sponsors do not mean "trusted" service. Yes, majority of site sponsors are great but some are totally sh*t. Those f@@kers know who they are. My 2cents.
Site sponsors don't neccessarily mean good services and prices. I've been to a number of WS and learn my lesson, stick to the ones who have been providing me services that I'm happy with. Some of the WS near my place or office provide sh*tty services and prices. That include some of the site sponsored ones. Stand by what I said, some of these WS are pure cr@p!
Lesson learn, stick to the ones you're happy with. Convinience and some site sponsors do not mean "trusted" service. Yes, majority of site sponsors are great but some are totally sh*t. Those f@@kers know who they are. My 2cents.
Slow_poke_driver
Well-Known Member
Re: What an expensive day! Starter motor replacement.
Maybe I look like carrot, but my experience with two of the site sponsor workshops here is that their labour is actually more expensive than pml or ma, was quite surprised.
Maybe I look like carrot, but my experience with two of the site sponsor workshops here is that their labour is actually more expensive than pml or ma, was quite surprised.
Re: What an expensive day! Starter motor replacement.
I agree, site sponsor WS prices may in fact be higher or equal to PML's pricing for the same work.
But as my car is a PI car, I dun go PML/MA, so my only recourse is to recommended and (trusted) workshops, be they site sponsors or not. With this in mind, if anyone comes to forum and expects a nice clear bro to bro advice or recommendation on which ws is good for your BMW, be prepared to be disappointed. I like laksa with extra hum does not mean you like laska with hum in the first place or getting extra hum. To follow blindly any "bro's" recommendation or advice here like the gospel truth is like saying your bro intro a girl to you in a pub and then makes sure you get a lay at the end of the night.
DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH u lazy asses. Lao Jiaos like us (Kenntona, Ryan, Mock, Blackbmw etc etc etc and the list goes on) did not come to the forum, ask a stupid general question like "hi bros, can recommend a good car wash?" and then walk away feeling sibeh tua kee you got cheap good and big breasts deal.
You go into one ws, u experience it, u like no like, you make your own judgment. U no like, u change ws, u like, u stay on and build a relationship with the ws.
You expect a "bro" here to tell you, a newbie, tat for eg "oh BVO is damn solid look for ah wee" and expect to go BVO and Ah Wee treats u like that "bro"? Halo wake up. Who the f**k are u?
This thread should not degenerate into site sponsor bashing or complaints, which seems to be heading that direction. Not happy, ditch tat site sponsor or feedback directly to them.
Dun be Jover Chewed and then turn to social media to grind your axe for u
This is a general comment, not directing at any one in this thread hor.
I agree, site sponsor WS prices may in fact be higher or equal to PML's pricing for the same work.
But as my car is a PI car, I dun go PML/MA, so my only recourse is to recommended and (trusted) workshops, be they site sponsors or not. With this in mind, if anyone comes to forum and expects a nice clear bro to bro advice or recommendation on which ws is good for your BMW, be prepared to be disappointed. I like laksa with extra hum does not mean you like laska with hum in the first place or getting extra hum. To follow blindly any "bro's" recommendation or advice here like the gospel truth is like saying your bro intro a girl to you in a pub and then makes sure you get a lay at the end of the night.
DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH u lazy asses. Lao Jiaos like us (Kenntona, Ryan, Mock, Blackbmw etc etc etc and the list goes on) did not come to the forum, ask a stupid general question like "hi bros, can recommend a good car wash?" and then walk away feeling sibeh tua kee you got cheap good and big breasts deal.
You go into one ws, u experience it, u like no like, you make your own judgment. U no like, u change ws, u like, u stay on and build a relationship with the ws.
You expect a "bro" here to tell you, a newbie, tat for eg "oh BVO is damn solid look for ah wee" and expect to go BVO and Ah Wee treats u like that "bro"? Halo wake up. Who the f**k are u?
This thread should not degenerate into site sponsor bashing or complaints, which seems to be heading that direction. Not happy, ditch tat site sponsor or feedback directly to them.
Dun be Jover Chewed and then turn to social media to grind your axe for u
This is a general comment, not directing at any one in this thread hor.
Last edited by a moderator:
Aaron_BMW
Well-Known Member
Re: What an expensive day! Starter motor replacement.
Can we create a price list guide line for different kinds of maintenance and repairs?
For example:
Engine oil (brand) = $1Xx to $2XX
Engine oil change labour = $8x to $1XX
Engine oil filter = $3x
Engine top over haul (parts.....) = $3Xxx to $5XXX
Gear box solenoids = $3XXX to $4XXX
Brake pads - $Xxx
The above are just examples and are not the actual price of any workshops.
I would not mind to start a topic on this.
Can we create a price list guide line for different kinds of maintenance and repairs?
For example:
Engine oil (brand) = $1Xx to $2XX
Engine oil change labour = $8x to $1XX
Engine oil filter = $3x
Engine top over haul (parts.....) = $3Xxx to $5XXX
Gear box solenoids = $3XXX to $4XXX
Brake pads - $Xxx
The above are just examples and are not the actual price of any workshops.
I would not mind to start a topic on this.
Aaron_BMW
Well-Known Member
Re: What an expensive day! Starter motor replacement.
I hope these are just one off incidents.
There must be also good site sponsors with fair market pricing and these site sponsors have been contributing to our BMWS forum for many years and given priceless advices and provided good workmanship too.
Or they could have given U a higher labour and cheaper parts? Vice versa.
Thanks for sharing anyway [emoji4]
Slow_poke_driver;1105158 said:
I hope these are just one off incidents.
There must be also good site sponsors with fair market pricing and these site sponsors have been contributing to our BMWS forum for many years and given priceless advices and provided good workmanship too.
Or they could have given U a higher labour and cheaper parts? Vice versa.
Thanks for sharing anyway [emoji4]
lkm
Well-Known Member
Re: What an expensive day! Starter motor replacement.
Aiyoh! Why you all like that? I totally agree - this thread should not turn into a site sponsor or workshop bashing! So, please, everyone, chill!
Like I've maintained - I've never said that I was unfairly charged or overcharged what! What I'm merely highlighting is the margins that some workshops attempt to make. Every business has to make money - else how to survive or even pay their workers? But isn't this site about sharing information? I merely mentioned Eng Soon sells this part, and the workshop sells for 95% more niah.
If you like the abalone seafood laksa and wiling to pay $23.80++ for a bowl, and I highlight that the ingredients cost only $3, doesn't mean everyone will start making their own laksa mah! Then someone else mention that Katong Laksa cost $5, and if you add your own abalone worth $5, it'll taste like Hotel Re! version, does it mean that all abalone seafood laksa lovers will jump ship? No what. But will it make some people willing to try the lower cost Katong abalone laksa? Maybe? But the interesting thing is this - without the initial abalone-seafood-laksa-ingredient-only-cost-$3 forum post, there may not be a contribution of the katong-laksa-plus-abalone post. Are we ranting or complaining about the $23.80++ abalone seafood laksa? Absolutely not! But at least now, abalone seafood laksa lovers have an alternative.
This is a general comment, not directing at any one in this thread hor. Really! =)
Aiyoh! Why you all like that? I totally agree - this thread should not turn into a site sponsor or workshop bashing! So, please, everyone, chill!
Like I've maintained - I've never said that I was unfairly charged or overcharged what! What I'm merely highlighting is the margins that some workshops attempt to make. Every business has to make money - else how to survive or even pay their workers? But isn't this site about sharing information? I merely mentioned Eng Soon sells this part, and the workshop sells for 95% more niah.
If you like the abalone seafood laksa and wiling to pay $23.80++ for a bowl, and I highlight that the ingredients cost only $3, doesn't mean everyone will start making their own laksa mah! Then someone else mention that Katong Laksa cost $5, and if you add your own abalone worth $5, it'll taste like Hotel Re! version, does it mean that all abalone seafood laksa lovers will jump ship? No what. But will it make some people willing to try the lower cost Katong abalone laksa? Maybe? But the interesting thing is this - without the initial abalone-seafood-laksa-ingredient-only-cost-$3 forum post, there may not be a contribution of the katong-laksa-plus-abalone post. Are we ranting or complaining about the $23.80++ abalone seafood laksa? Absolutely not! But at least now, abalone seafood laksa lovers have an alternative.
This is a general comment, not directing at any one in this thread hor. Really! =)
Re: What an expensive day! Starter motor replacement.
I think we need to understand that:
(1) workshops need to make a living from margin, else all steak houses should close down since we can all buy and cook steaks at home;
(2) workshops do not have to ensure consistency in pricing - that means customer A and B could face different pricing, due to different familiarity, repair conditions.....
(3) workshops might not list everything as separate, and hence we have to compare apples to apples.
Real life case in point:
Shop A itemised the repair bill as:
(1) Replacement of Starter = $500
Total S$500
Shop B itemised the same bill as:
(1) Replacement PART of Starter = S$400
(2) Labour to replace Starter = S$100
(3) Check disa valves, oil separator, crankshaft sensor ... = S$50
Total $550
Some forumer went KPKB against shop B for doing the more detailed job. Shop A cut corners but no one knows.
MW said:
I think we need to understand that:
(1) workshops need to make a living from margin, else all steak houses should close down since we can all buy and cook steaks at home;
(2) workshops do not have to ensure consistency in pricing - that means customer A and B could face different pricing, due to different familiarity, repair conditions.....
(3) workshops might not list everything as separate, and hence we have to compare apples to apples.
Real life case in point:
Shop A itemised the repair bill as:
(1) Replacement of Starter = $500
Total S$500
Shop B itemised the same bill as:
(1) Replacement PART of Starter = S$400
(2) Labour to replace Starter = S$100
(3) Check disa valves, oil separator, crankshaft sensor ... = S$50
Total $550
Some forumer went KPKB against shop B for doing the more detailed job. Shop A cut corners but no one knows.
ng.leng.37
Member
Re: What an expensive day! Starter motor replacement.
Wah lau...very well saidMW;1105161 said:
Red_Bean_Bun
Well-Known Member
Re: What an expensive day! Starter motor replacement.
You could try to DIY a starter motor change - not very complex ..... save yourself the $180 for this simple job.
Depending on which engine you have ....... some steps can skip. Let's assume an N54 .......
- disconnect your battery
- take out the air snorkels
- remove the airbox
- disconnect all vacuum hoses
- disconnect all sensors in that area (intake manifold, IAT etc)
- remove throttle body
- remove base with a bunch of connectors under the intake manifold
- remove all the bolts off the intake manifold
- remove the intake manifold (try not to short your B+ along the way)
See the starter there ?
View attachment 65188
- disconnect terminals of the starter
- unbolt starter remove wires to terminals
- take starter out
Repeat everything in the reverse order with the new starter. Try not to tear any vacuum lines, hoses or air ducts along the way.
Try it ....... its fun.
You could try to DIY a starter motor change - not very complex ..... save yourself the $180 for this simple job.
Depending on which engine you have ....... some steps can skip. Let's assume an N54 .......
- disconnect your battery
- take out the air snorkels
- remove the airbox
- disconnect all vacuum hoses
- disconnect all sensors in that area (intake manifold, IAT etc)
- remove throttle body
- remove base with a bunch of connectors under the intake manifold
- remove all the bolts off the intake manifold
- remove the intake manifold (try not to short your B+ along the way)
See the starter there ?
View attachment 65188
- disconnect terminals of the starter
- unbolt starter remove wires to terminals
- take starter out
Repeat everything in the reverse order with the new starter. Try not to tear any vacuum lines, hoses or air ducts along the way.
Try it ....... its fun.
seanskye
Well-Known Member
Re: What an expensive day! Starter motor replacement.
Agree. And I'm sure if Shop C provided TWMM and itemised the same bill as:
(1) Replacement of Starter by TWMM = S$838
(2) Labour by TWMM to replace Starter = S$2000 (comes with garland, tarpao not included)
(3) Mixers and water = $50
Total $2888
I would gladly pay....
kenntona;1105180 said:
Agree. And I'm sure if Shop C provided TWMM and itemised the same bill as:
(1) Replacement of Starter by TWMM = S$838
(2) Labour by TWMM to replace Starter = S$2000 (comes with garland, tarpao not included)
(3) Mixers and water = $50
Total $2888
I would gladly pay....
leebmer
Well-Known Member
Re: What an expensive day! Starter motor replacement.
My alternator change with one site sponsor WS was $1500.. Learnt a few things since then..
1/ Confirm part and labour cost before proceeding.. always itemise the part and labour..
2/ After comparing notes with my good buddy, I realised the WS was too expensive ("overcharge"?).. and moved on..
My alternator change with one site sponsor WS was $1500.. Learnt a few things since then..
1/ Confirm part and labour cost before proceeding.. always itemise the part and labour..
2/ After comparing notes with my good buddy, I realised the WS was too expensive ("overcharge"?).. and moved on..
Re: What an expensive day! Starter motor replacement.
actually if you dun know by now, going to a site sponsor means nothing. This is the hard truth.
The internet culture portrays supposedly "endorsed" business as a "good to go" place but different people have different expectations and thus many would be disappointed to go to a recommended "endorsed" business.
And another hard truth is...a newly "endorsed" business may entice you with huge promotional discounts and provide initial good attentive service like u da man but after it becomes a little jaded or business becomes too good, the level of discounts and service will drop and become like any other businesses and then you will go to another ws and noticed "ehh, same pricing leh and better service than my usual haunt"
better service cos u are new to them and they wan u to come back and it becomes a never-ending loop
Honestly there are VERY few businesses who will continue their excellent service and pricing like you experienced the 1st time you go.
Like I said before, building a relationship is important. You ws hop because price good, u can never find a ws tat will treat u like a "bro"
actually if you dun know by now, going to a site sponsor means nothing. This is the hard truth.
The internet culture portrays supposedly "endorsed" business as a "good to go" place but different people have different expectations and thus many would be disappointed to go to a recommended "endorsed" business.
And another hard truth is...a newly "endorsed" business may entice you with huge promotional discounts and provide initial good attentive service like u da man but after it becomes a little jaded or business becomes too good, the level of discounts and service will drop and become like any other businesses and then you will go to another ws and noticed "ehh, same pricing leh and better service than my usual haunt"
better service cos u are new to them and they wan u to come back and it becomes a never-ending loop
Honestly there are VERY few businesses who will continue their excellent service and pricing like you experienced the 1st time you go.
Like I said before, building a relationship is important. You ws hop because price good, u can never find a ws tat will treat u like a "bro"
