A true track car, NA or FI ?

stevenwu

Well-Known Member
Hi,
Heard a lot of over-heating issue when lapping Sepang cct :( on FI car.

Beside 335's, quite surprise to hear that GTR is also in the list. Is FI car not really tuned for the track ? FI car denotes car with high pressure turbo, not those with light pressure turbo assist engine.

In other word, want to track > 4 hot laps, buy NA car.....

Opinion ?
 
Re: A true track car, NA or FI ?

Thats why I 'track' with my 320i. 335i is for show only ( hence detuned )
 
Re: A true track car, NA or FI ?

no golden rule for this...
alot of very good track cars are FI too like the usual Evo n WRX
When I had my STi Spec C, the car didnt overheat at all, oil temp was stable ard 110 after few hot laps ( 1.2 bar of boost ). Water temp was just right in the middle of the gauge all e time. All swee2x

Alot has to with the set up of the car in terms of cooling efficiency.

To give you one example of NA car that can overheat quite fast too is E46 M3.
4 laps pretty much and oil temp will shoot 120
IMO, the placing of the oil cooler for this car was fine but it's a tad too small..plus pretty tight engine bay that traps alot of heat. In the new M3, it has improved quite dramatically in terms of cooling performance.

For 335, oil cooler needs to find a new place....
Usually I like it to be exposed as much as possible ..eg behind the kidney grill instead of on the side of the bumper. I was told before that it's not possible to move the cooler to the front due to some oil pressure problem which can drop. Heat gets trapped too in the engine bay.

On a side note, I m hoping the new Z with N54 3l FI-engine will have less issue with heat. I m betting on the wide engine bay that doesnt soak up much heat ( similar to the current outgoing Z )
 
Re: A true track car, NA or FI ?

I agree, my current Z heats up after 4-5 hot laps up to 120 deg. I recall the engine temp needle going all the way up past 3/4 after 6 laps.

After that i get a little less ballsy and start to take cooling laps to bring it back down to 90-100 deg. Did options to replace engine oil cooler with uprated one, but apparantly it's quite well position except that there's a plastic piece which blocks the cooler because the A/C piping is behind it.
 
Re: A true track car, NA or FI ?

its always the brakes for me....they go b4 the oil temp goes...
 
Re: A true track car, NA or FI ?

with the E92 M3, there's also overheating problem. after about 5-6 hot laps, temp will be 120C. Need to cool down.

The brakes are also rubbish, with stock pads, after 2 hot laps will start to fade. Much better with high temp pads, but there's still a problem with heat capacity. So for any serious track use, I think BBKs are a must.
 
Re: A true track car, NA or FI ?

stevenwu;428733 said:
Hi,
Heard a lot of over-heating issue when lapping Sepang cct :( on FI car.

Beside 335's, quite surprise to hear that GTR is also in the list. Is FI car not really tuned for the track ? FI car denotes car with high pressure turbo, not those with light pressure turbo assist engine.

In other word, want to track > 4 hot laps, buy NA car.....

Opinion ?

No it's just a matter of how well designed or developed the package is. You see a lot of FI failures mainly because it is much simpler and cheaper to increase the engine output if at the expense of longevity. When you have many enthusiasts trying to ull as much as they think they safely can from an engine without taking care of pressure and heat control, you have more failures. They just generally run more power than NA cars. High power NA cars face many of the same challenges with fluid and brake temps, etc.

FWIW also, high pressure turbos are often low massflow turbos and so less more prone to heat failure in some ways. The lower pressure higher massflow turbos come with their own set of problems... then you have the high pressure high massflow nuts who are constantly battling the gamut from charge heat to waste heat to block distortion, sealing issues at ring-cylinder and block-head interface.

As for the GTR it has way too much mass to hold anywhere near its peak performance for more than a couple laps.
 
Re: A true track car, NA or FI ?

Shaun;428819 said:
No it's just a matter of how well designed or developed the package is. You see a lot of FI failures mainly because it is much simpler and cheaper to increase the engine output if at the expense of longevity. When you have many enthusiasts trying to ull as much as they think they safely can from an engine without taking care of pressure and heat control, you have more failures. They just generally run more power than NA cars. High power NA cars face many of the same challenges with fluid and brake temps, etc.

FWIW also, high pressure turbos are often low massflow turbos and so less more prone to heat failure in some ways. The lower pressure higher massflow turbos come with their own set of problems... then you have the high pressure high massflow nuts who are constantly battling the gamut from charge heat to waste heat to block distortion, sealing issues at ring-cylinder and block-head interface.

As for the GTR it has way too much mass to hold anywhere near its peak performance for more than a couple laps.


Hi,
e46 M3 and e92 M3 NA cars also have over-heating issues after a couple of hot laps in Sepang...then which car has NO issue at all ? I am refering to stock condition. lotus ? Honda DC5 ?

Look likes only Lambo, Ferrari, Porsche make the real track car ??? that can last more laps ?

How's about GT3 ?

I am always thinking that 'SPORT Car' means car that could lap the fastest and has to stay in operating condition under stress, NOT over-heating after a couple of laps ? heeee.e..e

comments pls.
 
Re: A true track car, NA or FI ?

stevenwu;428821 said:
I am always thinking that 'SPORT Car' means car that could lap the fastest and has to stay in operating condition under stress, NOT over-heating after a couple of laps ? heeee.e..e

comments pls.

I agree with you. The problem is that perhaps just 2 or less % of a any model of car will be driven more than 5 hotlaps in a row at taxing track like SIC. Tracking in general is in many ways just multiples harder on the car relative to sunday morning drives, highway cruises or blasts - and those in turn are way harsher than commuting or posing around the city. Manufacturers are forced to design the car to barely meet the needs of the 98% which run the car less intensely, in order to maximize profit. They have to leave it up to the 2% to work out aftermarket solutions and even then sometimes it is difficult or impossible because of the mass or base design of the car. I can't think of any showroom stock production road car will run 5 consecutive hotlaps in a row without fading considerably in some area. Have heard of problems, some major, from P,F,L. I think the closest you can get to a fadefree car for reasonable money is a Lotus, but you still have to do some things to it.. so it's still not stock.
 
Re: A true track car, NA or FI ?

stevenwu;428821 said:
Hi,
e46 M3 and e92 M3 NA cars also have over-heating issues after a couple of hot laps in Sepang...then which car has NO issue at all ? I am refering to stock condition. lotus ? Honda DC5 ?

Look likes only Lambo, Ferrari, Porsche make the real track car ??? that can last more laps ?

How's about GT3 ?

I am always thinking that 'SPORT Car' means car that could lap the fastest and has to stay in operating condition under stress, NOT over-heating after a couple of laps ? heeee.e..e

comments pls.

Bro,

shaun's right, most of these mfrs won't put in so much to make the car last many laps on track....the price of the cars will frighten buyers away lor.....

That's why they sell track-ready and specific ones like the 320Si for WTCC independent teams and also M3 LM's are ready for sales as well....read somewhere....

Why? Itchy for track ah???

Buy an old EG and do it up for track man! Kekeke!
 
Re: A true track car, NA or FI ?

ai...havent been to SIC since it opened its doors in 1999...what a shame!
 
Re: A true track car, NA or FI ?

I guess we just need to know our ride's set-up well to know how many laps it can take. Brakes and Oil Temp are always an issue on track.

Cheers !
 

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