Alcon Superkit for E9x M3

[Spar7]

Re: Alcon Superkit for E9x M3

Hey, please make sure u check their ICs thoroughly!!!

Had AP water cooled 8pot front 4 pot rear on my E46 M3 last time.

with the racing pads and rotors it worked like a charm. but after 3 months of normal city driving, i brought it to sepang.after 5 laps it was metal rubbing metal....imagine the nightmare driving back from sepang to SG.

dealer then, replaced the pads and rotors to less aggressive versions and brakes were crap. didnt stop as good and made a lot of noise.

along the way i have gone through brembos, endless, AP on various cars...

was apprehensive about alcons but decided to try it anyway on my E92 M3. dont know why it took me so long to try..i can honestly say its one of best brakes i ever had. no issues with warping what so ever. have not experienced any brake fade even on sepang. with Alcon u have so much confidence with the braking. on NS highway doing speeds of 200 and above tap on the brake and u can feel the whole car coming to a stop.

have since sold my m3, but before selling brakes were removed and the car couldnt stop again.

definately no regrets with alcon and im waiting for the kit to be developed for the next car

 

[Shaun]

Re: Alcon Superkit for E9x M3

Hi Spar7, thanks for the input. You aren't affiliated with any of the brake brands on this thread or any of its dealers/distributors in any way at all, correct? I know I'm not affiliated with any.

Fade resistance in a track application is down to how well the brake system is designed for the task. It's mainly how well ducted the system is, and whether the pad compound is speced for the application. Any powerful and heavy car with low aero drag, no ducts, and too soft a compound specified, will fade very quickly. On the other hand, a lesser brake system with great ducting, and appropriate compound, will not fade.

I would rather have a properly setup Stoptech system, vs an overheating Alcon, AP, Brembo system. It is too easy to destroy even the best brands of brakes.

The reason your M3 race pads wore out after 3 months of city driving is because brake pad deposition on the rotor surface wears out gradually if the brakes are not brought up to the temperature the pads are speced for. Race pads at race/track temp are hot enough to leave enough material coating the rotor which reduces wear to both surfaces. Race pads under design temperature, function abrasively and wear themselves as well as the rotor out, much quicker. Checking for sufficient thickness right before the trackday would have avoided the metal on metal issue. In this case it is the application and user error, not an AP issue. We have to be careful not to lump hardware issues with bed-in or application-matching issues.

===

Have just been informed by an acquaintance who tracks his car pretty often and hard (very good laptimes) that he has had tons of problems with his Alcons that took a long time and a fair bit of $ to sort out. The term used was similar to the other unfortunate BMW forum member here experienced, and this is "guinea pig". He is a known tracker and yet he was sent away with air in his brake system multiple times, as well as the wrong pad specified, leading to pad smearing and therefore bad judder. His issues were this year. My issues were a few years ago. It seems the workshop has not changed.

He has no reason to lie to me, I've met him only twice at trackdays. Only reason he brought it up is because he is selling his brakes to try another brand that also has a great reputation but that is not at all listed on this thread. When I asked him why he was selling he told this to me without knowing a thing about my past experience with the same people.

I take what he says seriously because he is a straight forward and articulate, detailed in all his discussions, and a good track driver. Harsh application and the independent minds running the hardware means extra weightage. He does not drive a BMW, but a more powerful make of car - the same model of car that had one of its kind crash very badly at the end of a big braking event zone, at a private trackday this year run by a Singapore garage that holds a certain brand of respectable brakes, but which unfortunately appears unable to consistently support it, especially in the harshest of applications that the brakes are supposedly designed for.

Fortunately in this part of the world, out of 100 buyers, only about 5 or less actually use them repeatedly in the harsh application, so very few ever find out. But you have to feel sorry for those that do find out and suffer.

 

[Shaun]

Re: Alcon Superkit for E9x M3

Without even putting the names down, the people responsible for the failure will read, and in their hearts they already know which drivers I'm referring to that have suffered, because they know what has gone on. That's the beauty of the truth. But again, just to be safe (in legal terms), I also have proof of all this as backup, before writing it here.

The best outcome of all this is that these installers/dealers/distributors/garages wake up and start making things safer. Is it any coincidence that the only catastrophic brake failure on track in recent times, of a non-OEM, high end brake system, comes from these same incompetent people?

Can anyone name an on track catastrophic brake failure this year, or last year, involving say AP, Brembo, and their local installers? Was there one? Was it because the installer did not firmly enough advise the drivers to duct and compound appropriately for the application? Or was it because of sloppy install?

 

[Shaun]

Re: Alcon Superkit for E9x M3

Hi Spar7, thanks for the input. Is it correct to say that you are definitely not affiliated with any of the brake brands on this thread or any of its dealers/distributors in any way at all? I know I'm not affiliated with any.

Fade resistance in a track application is down to how well the brake system is designed for the task. It's mainly how well ducted the system is, and whether the pad compound is speced for the application. Any powerful and heavy car with low aero drag, no ducts, and too soft a compound specified, will fade very quickly. On the other hand, a lesser brake system with great ducting, and appropriate compound, will not fade.

I would rather have a properly setup Stoptech system, vs an overheating AP, Brembo system. It is too easy to destroy even the best brands of brakes.

The reason your M3 race pads wore out after 3 months of city driving is because brake pad deposition on the rotor surface wears out gradually if the brakes are not brought up to the temperature the pads are speced for. Race pads at race/track temp are hot enough to leave enough material coating the rotor which reduces wear to both surfaces. Race pads under design temperature, function abrasively and wear themselves as well as the rotor out, much quicker. Checking for sufficient thickness right before the trackday would have avoided the metal on metal issue. In this case it is the application and user error, not an AP issue. We have to be careful not to lump hardware issues with bed-in or application-matching issues.

===

Have just been informed by an acquaintance who tracks his car pretty often and hard (very good laptimes) that he has had tons of problems with his brakes that took a long time and a fair bit of $ to sort out. The term used was similar to the other unfortunate BMW forum member here experienced, and this is "guinea pig". He is a known tracker and yet he was sent away with air in his brake system multiple times, as well as the wrong pad for the application, leading to pad smearing and therefore bad judder. His issues were this year. My issues were a few years ago. It seems this same garage has not changed at all.

The main problem is them letting air into the master cylinder by over vacuuming the reservoir. It is just the most basic error that any real grassroot team would know NOT to do. It is the same error that I attempted to discuss with them about 3 years ago but they refused to. Letting air into the master cylinder is a real pain especially on vehicles with ABS. It is a very long path to clear unless you reverse bleed it. Better still is never to let air in to start with.

This acquaintance has no reason to lie to me, I've met him only twice at trackdays. Only reason he brought it up is because he is selling his brakes to try another brand that also has a great reputation but that is not at all listed on this thread. When I asked him why he was selling he told this to me without knowing a thing about my past experience with the same people.

I take what he says seriously because he is a straight forward and articulate, detailed in all his discussions, and a good track driver. Harsh application and the independent/non-sponsored/unaffiliated minds running the hardware means cleaner more accurate signal IMO. He does not drive a BMW, but a more powerful make of car - one of the same model that crashed very badly at the end of a big braking zone at a private trackday this year. What are the odds that the the the crashed car had been under the care of said incompetent garage? It appears that certain good product is just not getting good support, especially for use in the harshest of applications that these brakes are designed for.

Fortunately in this part of the world, out of 100 buyers, only about 5 or less actually use them repeatedly in the harsh application, so very few ever find out. But you have to feel sorry for those that do find out and suffer.

 

[golfgti]

Re: Alcon Superkit for E9x M3

i used 2 run a brembo on my old prev honda CTR w mugen type c pads n steel hose n motul rbf600 n they wear super good, zero brake fade after multi laps... versus stock was day n night..

so my exp is a good brake setup helps alot.

 

[Shaun]

Re: Alcon Superkit for E9x M3

i used 2 run a brembo on my old prev honda CTR w mugen type c pads n steel hose n motul rbf600 n they wear super good, zero brake fade after multi laps... versus stock was day n night..

so my exp is a good brake setup helps alot.

Yup...

Have done 15 all out laps with zero fade running OEM, single piston sliding caliper brakes - thanks to right ducting, compound, lines, fluid. Before that the same system just minus the ducting and running the wrong compound would fade bad, by the end of the first lap.

Have also faded every brand listed on this thread within 5 laps because of no ducting, wrong compound. This includes carbon-ceramic systems with destruction of pads in a single track session. I've also had cars run carbon-carbon rotors supposed to last the whole season ~20 races, that were destroyed within a single race - pads too. All of this extreme fade, wear, destruction, was due to the system in an only slightly wrong state (duct blanking %, debris, compound, brake bias) and therefore not perfectly suited for the application.

 

[Tanzy]

Re: Alcon Superkit for E9x M3

Shaun

I've a set of used Acre brake pads for E92 M3 front and rear to give away.
ACRE Fomula700C brake pads
Couple of track days done. Still got life left in them. No fade so far with RBF fluids. You want?
Don't need them since they can't fit my SLK.

 

[TripleM]

Re: Alcon Superkit for E9x M3

Shaun

I've a set of used Acre brake pads for E92 M3 front and rear to give away.
ACRE Fomula700C brake pads
Couple of track days done. Still got life left in them. No fade so far with RBF fluids. You want?
Don't need them since they can't fit my SLK.

it is for lightweight car and winding road
your m3 is heavy and u drive straight everyday, not suitable pads...Shaun says one.

 

[Shaun]

Re: Alcon Superkit for E9x M3

it is for lightweight car and winding road
your m3 is heavy and u drive straight everyday, not suitable pads...Shaun says one.

Tanzy.. ^^^^^^ Jack say one.

But seriously, thanks, just that I have no use for those. Transfer the m3 calipers to the SLK and use the pads

 

[hetraa]

Re: Alcon Superkit for E9x M3

What do u think of ebc yellow on track? I juz changed to them n stoptech ss lines. imho, more bite ~40% , than stock, just takes a while (3-5 traffic lights) to heat them..

Tanzy.. ^^^^^^ Jack say one.

But seriously, thanks, just that I have no use for those. Transfer the m3 calipers to the SLK and use the pads

 

[TripleM]

Re: Alcon Superkit for E9x M3

no idea bout EBC pads...so long its ratings in terms of temp n friction are good for heavy duty work, then it should be good. It's good brand after all.

Having said that, i am still a Ferodo and Performance Friction fans when it comes to brake pads.

 

[hetraa]

Re: Alcon Superkit for E9x M3

so far damn satisfied with the stopping power. it really bites hard. its a track pad thats streetable.

besides this, previously i tried ferodo, hawk street pads.

no idea bout EBC pads...so long its ratings in terms of temp n friction are good for heavy duty work, then it should be good. It's good brand after all.

Having said that, i am still a Ferodo and Performance Friction fans when it comes to brake pads.

 

[Tanzy]

Re: Alcon Superkit for E9x M3

it is for lightweight car and winding road
your m3 is heavy and u drive straight everyday, not suitable pads...Shaun says one.

I seldom use brakes. I like to explore the limit of my car on public roads with blatant disrespect for safety. I prefer to stop laterally or with a tree. Looks like movies. You want the pads? Good stuff but noisy on daily drive.


Shaun

The calipers can't fit my pussywagen cause the wheels are too tiny to clear the manly M3 brakes. Looks like I will just have to eat them. I still have a set of J's Racing S2000 front brakes to clear.

 

[TripleM]

Re: Alcon Superkit for E9x M3

I seldom use brakes. I like to explore the limit of my car on public roads with blatant disrespect for safety. I prefer to stop laterally or with a tree. Looks like movies. You want the pads? Good stuff but noisy on daily drive.


Shaun

The calipers can't fit my pussywagen cause the wheels are too tiny to clear the manly M3 brakes. Looks like I will just have to eat them. I still have a set of J's Racing S2000 front brakes to clear.

no ah, i hv no need for the pads, thanks though

i m on ah peh lacing bbk