Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection
- Thread starter michaeltan
- Start date
michaeltan
Banned.
Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection
The complication is that, the normal engineering ways of achieving higher pedestrian safety is creating buffer zones, and the normal techniques of creation of these buffer zones goes against BMW's core marketing tenets - the Inline6 engine and short front overhangs.
And the question posed in this thread, is - will BMW sacrifice these core tenets to achieve better pedestrian safety?
I don't think that's the point. The point is that a car with higher pedestrian safety rating, the pedestrian has a higher chance of survival. That's it. Simple, right?SL2 said:
The complication is that, the normal engineering ways of achieving higher pedestrian safety is creating buffer zones, and the normal techniques of creation of these buffer zones goes against BMW's core marketing tenets - the Inline6 engine and short front overhangs.
And the question posed in this thread, is - will BMW sacrifice these core tenets to achieve better pedestrian safety?
Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection
Label me what you deem but ultimately your thoughts inyour posts clearly reflects your Bias and hypocricy rendering your words against me useless. i think you get the point. and yes, you DID generelise all BMWs as monsters. dont bother arguing. just read your thread over and over and over and over again or rather scrutinize it and scrutinize it well. Why even bother talking abt safety when u urself always post on carma abt who u can 'jio' and win. isnt that how it is michael? Take for example the guy in the 318i who wanted to eat you. u know for gods sake hes a 1.8 and urs ius a 3.0litre. and u still wanted to prove to him something. Now even that could have cost your life if another motorist made a mistake..and you are here, in the great BMW.sg preaching about pedestrian safety on BMWs. Quite an irony and hypocrite isnt it?!
michaeltan said:
Label me what you deem but ultimately your thoughts inyour posts clearly reflects your Bias and hypocricy rendering your words against me useless. i think you get the point. and yes, you DID generelise all BMWs as monsters. dont bother arguing. just read your thread over and over and over and over again or rather scrutinize it and scrutinize it well. Why even bother talking abt safety when u urself always post on carma abt who u can 'jio' and win. isnt that how it is michael? Take for example the guy in the 318i who wanted to eat you. u know for gods sake hes a 1.8 and urs ius a 3.0litre. and u still wanted to prove to him something. Now even that could have cost your life if another motorist made a mistake..and you are here, in the great BMW.sg preaching about pedestrian safety on BMWs. Quite an irony and hypocrite isnt it?!
Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection
Michael, since you are so concern about pedestrain safety upon impact, can you analyze carefully what you have been talking about. The best safety is for pedestrain to keep out of the car's way and vice versa. If a pedestrain exercise enough caution, the impact will not take place. If driver do look out for hazy and dreamy and can't be bothered pedestrain, impact will not take place. Don't blame such lame issue on any manufacturer for that. Get real, and answer the following truthfully,
1. Do you buy a car for knocking down pedestrain???
2. For a performance baised vehicle, what is important? Performance or pedestrain?
3. If a simple seat belt reminder can chalk up points in the NCAP rating? how real is that a representation?
4. How do you like inviting us to your place so that we start listing down lame and subjective shortfalls we see or conjure up?.
5. With this mass of dummy crash test knowledge that you have, put it to good use so that you know which car to avoid and which you don't need to avoid the next time you cross the road. Do you seriously know???
Come on, we come into this forum to coz some how or other, we all love and admire the way BMW is designed and built and the enjoyment we get driving it. Otherwise, we would all log into forum like crash test dummy forum if we are too bothered that the short overhand or i6 is BS.
Make a hunt for the safety car in that aspect, perhaps our brothers here may just organise a group buy.. won't we???
Michael, since you are so concern about pedestrain safety upon impact, can you analyze carefully what you have been talking about. The best safety is for pedestrain to keep out of the car's way and vice versa. If a pedestrain exercise enough caution, the impact will not take place. If driver do look out for hazy and dreamy and can't be bothered pedestrain, impact will not take place. Don't blame such lame issue on any manufacturer for that. Get real, and answer the following truthfully,
1. Do you buy a car for knocking down pedestrain???
2. For a performance baised vehicle, what is important? Performance or pedestrain?
3. If a simple seat belt reminder can chalk up points in the NCAP rating? how real is that a representation?
4. How do you like inviting us to your place so that we start listing down lame and subjective shortfalls we see or conjure up?.
5. With this mass of dummy crash test knowledge that you have, put it to good use so that you know which car to avoid and which you don't need to avoid the next time you cross the road. Do you seriously know???
Come on, we come into this forum to coz some how or other, we all love and admire the way BMW is designed and built and the enjoyment we get driving it. Otherwise, we would all log into forum like crash test dummy forum if we are too bothered that the short overhand or i6 is BS.
Make a hunt for the safety car in that aspect, perhaps our brothers here may just organise a group buy.. won't we???
michaeltan
Banned.
Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection
And you read it again, I floored the accelerator to get away from that mad guy. I couldn't slow down without risking him banging my backside. He was tailgating real close. Yes, I know that I have a lot more torque than HP than him, but my baby was in the car and I'm taking no chances.
Why when you see the BMW word, do you go berserk?
LOL. elmariachi, in the other thread, http://forum.carma.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1228999 the word BMW 318 was used as an identifier, not stating that BMW drivers are mad like that guy.elmariachi said:
And you read it again, I floored the accelerator to get away from that mad guy. I couldn't slow down without risking him banging my backside. He was tailgating real close. Yes, I know that I have a lot more torque than HP than him, but my baby was in the car and I'm taking no chances.
Why when you see the BMW word, do you go berserk?
Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection
i say every car other than a lexus will kill the pedestrial. you know why? cause pedestrial safety in Ncap did will. so much for dumbfounded theory.
SL2 said:
i say every car other than a lexus will kill the pedestrial. you know why? cause pedestrial safety in Ncap did will. so much for dumbfounded theory.
Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection
i think i should be asking you more of when ppl start threads why do u bring lexus in and start preaching? its the "Lexus" word that makes you berserk, not me. i think everyone here knows that and u dont have to prove otherwise.
michaeltan said:
i think i should be asking you more of when ppl start threads why do u bring lexus in and start preaching? its the "Lexus" word that makes you berserk, not me. i think everyone here knows that and u dont have to prove otherwise.
michaeltan
Banned.
Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection
The question is answered in principle, thus:
A car with a higher pedestrian safety rating should give the pedestrian a higher chance of survival.
Look at the www.euroncap.com and see the pedestrian safety ratings for the specific cars you mention.
i think this is the best and only way to answer your question.
SL2 said:
The question is answered in principle, thus:
A car with a higher pedestrian safety rating should give the pedestrian a higher chance of survival.
Look at the www.euroncap.com and see the pedestrian safety ratings for the specific cars you mention.
i think this is the best and only way to answer your question.
Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection
thats still not answering a simple and practical question. unless you are filled with facts and theories you abide so close with you cant give an answer. Or are you just Mr.Question? and all of us are supposed to be Mr.Answer.
michaeltan said:
thats still not answering a simple and practical question. unless you are filled with facts and theories you abide so close with you cant give an answer. Or are you just Mr.Question? and all of us are supposed to be Mr.Answer.
Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection
actually its fun cause i never seen someone so factual and law abiding in singapore. GE is coming soon isnt it?
rodders said:
actually its fun cause i never seen someone so factual and law abiding in singapore. GE is coming soon isnt it?
Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection
I think a far more important point is to train drivers effectively so they can perform evasive maneuvers when they see a pedestrian running across the road (thats why BMW has driver training, which I am sure a lot of people on these forums attend regularly), and to improve the cars to be able to respond effectively to driver input in these emergency situations (something which I think BMW cars in general does pretty well).
A well trained driver and an effective car that can evade and thus avoid an accident is better than an average driver who doesn't know what to do, panics, and hits dead on, no?
I personally think this is far more important than just improving the pedestrian safety rating.
Fair enough, that car manufactuers should be encouraged to improve pedestrian safety ratings, although not to the extent of compromising their core values (I-6 engines for BMW etc...) or sales (else they might as well close down since they will be alienating core customers anyway).michaeltan said:
I think a far more important point is to train drivers effectively so they can perform evasive maneuvers when they see a pedestrian running across the road (thats why BMW has driver training, which I am sure a lot of people on these forums attend regularly), and to improve the cars to be able to respond effectively to driver input in these emergency situations (something which I think BMW cars in general does pretty well).
A well trained driver and an effective car that can evade and thus avoid an accident is better than an average driver who doesn't know what to do, panics, and hits dead on, no?
I personally think this is far more important than just improving the pedestrian safety rating.
michaeltan
Banned.
Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection
1) no.
2) If I were to buy a performance biased vehicle, performance is important to me, and if there were a choice between 2 equal performance vehicles, one with better pedestrian safety rating and the other inferior, it would be the one which has a better pedestrian safety rating.
3) In my opinion, pretty real, but this is not for me to gauge. There are smarter people at Euroncap than me, and I do not have a real insider grasp of the situation. Similarly, nobody can say that it is a useless point without further research into statistics.
4) You can post anytime, and I will be delighted to discuss.
5) Avoidance is good. But if avoidance measures are exhausted, and finally you impact a pedestrian, it's nice to have a good pedestrian safety rating. I think you should limit your discussion to the reasonable. Read what you wrote and measure the sensibleness of your point #5.
Initially I started this thread as a academic discussion thread. As i did more research, I actually FELT for pedestrian safety when I thought about my boy.
Forgive me, but I really have an irrational love for my boy.
1) no.
2) If I were to buy a performance biased vehicle, performance is important to me, and if there were a choice between 2 equal performance vehicles, one with better pedestrian safety rating and the other inferior, it would be the one which has a better pedestrian safety rating.
3) In my opinion, pretty real, but this is not for me to gauge. There are smarter people at Euroncap than me, and I do not have a real insider grasp of the situation. Similarly, nobody can say that it is a useless point without further research into statistics.
4) You can post anytime, and I will be delighted to discuss.
5) Avoidance is good. But if avoidance measures are exhausted, and finally you impact a pedestrian, it's nice to have a good pedestrian safety rating. I think you should limit your discussion to the reasonable. Read what you wrote and measure the sensibleness of your point #5.
Initially I started this thread as a academic discussion thread. As i did more research, I actually FELT for pedestrian safety when I thought about my boy.
Forgive me, but I really have an irrational love for my boy.
jawzsg said:
Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection
and i think BMW has come out with the advanced and intensive driver training to show how much safety is of a concern to them as well. and having been thru that course, it has taught alot of us the safety and technical know-hows.
frankchn said:
and i think BMW has come out with the advanced and intensive driver training to show how much safety is of a concern to them as well. and having been thru that course, it has taught alot of us the safety and technical know-hows.
Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection
MT is NOT a lawyer. Hes in the computer industry.
rodders said:
MT is NOT a lawyer. Hes in the computer industry.
Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection
Not sure if you are refering to me. I personally believe that a pedestrian is not *that* hard to avoid (unlike a container truck lying perpendicularly across your path). If you are aware of road situation, as driver training will most probably teach you, you should not get to the point where you have no choice other than a head-on collision with whatever object lies in your path.
Lets limit our discussions to safety only and not bring in consumer choice of cars. I believe most people on these forums have already made a conscious choice that BMW is a better vehicle (whether for reasons of performance or otherwise) for them. If they made some other choice (like buying MB/Lexus), they would not be here.
Not sure if you are refering to me. I personally believe that a pedestrian is not *that* hard to avoid (unlike a container truck lying perpendicularly across your path
). If you are aware of road situation, as driver training will most probably teach you, you should not get to the point where you have no choice other than a head-on collision with whatever object lies in your path.Lets limit our discussions to safety only and not bring in consumer choice of cars. I believe most people on these forums have already made a conscious choice that BMW is a better vehicle (whether for reasons of performance or otherwise) for them. If they made some other choice (like buying MB/Lexus), they would not be here.
Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection
Also, by your logic: other car manufactuers (e.g. MB or Lexus), does not offer nor recommend driver training for their customers, unlike BMW. Does this mean that they do not care about whether their cars are driven safely and are driven to their maximal potential?
Also, by your logic: other car manufactuers (e.g. MB or Lexus), does not offer nor recommend driver training for their customers, unlike BMW. Does this mean that they do not care about whether their cars are driven safely and are driven to their maximal potential?
