Braking Calipers
- Thread starter bentai85
- Start date
gwumpkus
Well-Known Member
Re: Braking Calipers
thought most calipers are matched to certain size rotors... unless ur "performance calipers" use the same size rotors..then u prob need to change rotors ... (that said, if ur performance calipers uses the SAME sized rotors..how muhc performance gain are u getting, over ur stock?..)
thought most calipers are matched to certain size rotors... unless ur "performance calipers" use the same size rotors..then u prob need to change rotors ... (that said, if ur performance calipers uses the SAME sized rotors..how muhc performance gain are u getting, over ur stock?..)
Re: Braking Calipers
bigger rotors may mean better cooling to resist fade and hence better repeated hard braking...but if your calipers remain the same, meaning you buy those caliper relocating kits that allow you to use back stock calipers with bigger discs, then braking bite and performance will stay the same except with better cooling.
however, if you get so-called performance calipers, i think it should mean better braking bite as the caliper's clamping force will be greater? this is just my layman understanding from bentai's description. but i think it will not be a good option because while you have better braking, and you WILL start to brake later and harder with the increase in confidence/performance, you will find yourself taxing the cooling abilities of your stock rotors.
moral of the story...i suggest upgrading the entire package or not at all...anyway chances are you will find it insufficient some time in the near future and then decide to change stuff again...waste money again
bigger rotors may mean better cooling to resist fade and hence better repeated hard braking...but if your calipers remain the same, meaning you buy those caliper relocating kits that allow you to use back stock calipers with bigger discs, then braking bite and performance will stay the same except with better cooling.
however, if you get so-called performance calipers, i think it should mean better braking bite as the caliper's clamping force will be greater? this is just my layman understanding from bentai's description. but i think it will not be a good option because while you have better braking, and you WILL start to brake later and harder with the increase in confidence/performance, you will find yourself taxing the cooling abilities of your stock rotors.
moral of the story...i suggest upgrading the entire package or not at all...anyway chances are you will find it insufficient some time in the near future and then decide to change stuff again...waste money again
centurion
Well-Known Member
Re: Braking Calipers
first, you must realise that ANY brake caliper can lock the rotor in place. Your stock caliper can do that too!
Braking torque is very little a function of clamping force, but rather, the size of the disc makes it easier to modulate.
The greatest thing about BBKs is NOT that they reduce braking distance for initial braking. In fact, your braking distance may even go up a few more feet, because you upset the braking bias and let the rear do less work once you put a BBK in front.
It's consistency. BBKs give you good braking distance over a longer period of prolonged use. This is because the bigger brake mass and size means greater thermal dissipation or tolerance.
In short, changing calipers without rotors, even if possible, is useless.
first, you must realise that ANY brake caliper can lock the rotor in place. Your stock caliper can do that too!
Braking torque is very little a function of clamping force, but rather, the size of the disc makes it easier to modulate.
The greatest thing about BBKs is NOT that they reduce braking distance for initial braking. In fact, your braking distance may even go up a few more feet, because you upset the braking bias and let the rear do less work once you put a BBK in front.
It's consistency. BBKs give you good braking distance over a longer period of prolonged use. This is because the bigger brake mass and size means greater thermal dissipation or tolerance.
In short, changing calipers without rotors, even if possible, is useless.
yendor
Well-Known Member
Re: Braking Calipers
A larger caliper (assuming you keep the stock discs) will usually mean that the brake piston is larger in diameter and this will increase the mechanical advantage between the brake master pump and brake pistons. The effect that you get is slightly longer pedal travel (as slightly more fluid goes into the calipers) but your brakes bite harder as the effective clamping force goes up. Hondas of yester years used this trick. Use prelude callipers on civic discs with performance pads to maximise stopping for carpark sprints.
If you change to a larger discs while keeping the stock calipers, you have also increased the available brake torque as the mechanical advantage of the rolling tires has over the gripping discs is lower. Also as the discs are larger, the increased metal in the discs allows for more heat capacity and hence better continual braking perfromance on the track. An example of this was the VW passat that used Audi A8 discs (from 278mm to 315mm) and TT quattro caliper carriers to accomodate the larger discs. The stock calipers remain the same along with the pad size.
BBKs employ both, larger discs and multiple pistons to up both piston surface area and disc size for good clamping force and high heat handling capacity.
When upgrading brakes, it is important to keep in mind the bias. Super big brakes in the front may not deliver shorter braking distances as the rear may not contribute enough force and lead to a unstable rear end during high speed deceleration which in turn causes the driver to back off the brake pedal. Keep the stock ratio of F:R piston size, discs size and pad size during upgrading and your bias will more or less not differ too much.
To improve on stock, use better pads, S/S brake lines, DOT 5.1 brake fluid as the first level upgrade. 2nd level upgrade is to mod the front and rears with larger discs from the larger engined model. 3rd, (which is my favourite), invest in a full BBK set.
So lets start the "Buy Yendor a set of BBK fund"
cheers..
A larger caliper (assuming you keep the stock discs) will usually mean that the brake piston is larger in diameter and this will increase the mechanical advantage between the brake master pump and brake pistons. The effect that you get is slightly longer pedal travel (as slightly more fluid goes into the calipers) but your brakes bite harder as the effective clamping force goes up. Hondas of yester years used this trick. Use prelude callipers on civic discs with performance pads to maximise stopping for carpark sprints.
If you change to a larger discs while keeping the stock calipers, you have also increased the available brake torque as the mechanical advantage of the rolling tires has over the gripping discs is lower. Also as the discs are larger, the increased metal in the discs allows for more heat capacity and hence better continual braking perfromance on the track. An example of this was the VW passat that used Audi A8 discs (from 278mm to 315mm) and TT quattro caliper carriers to accomodate the larger discs. The stock calipers remain the same along with the pad size.
BBKs employ both, larger discs and multiple pistons to up both piston surface area and disc size for good clamping force and high heat handling capacity.
When upgrading brakes, it is important to keep in mind the bias. Super big brakes in the front may not deliver shorter braking distances as the rear may not contribute enough force and lead to a unstable rear end during high speed deceleration which in turn causes the driver to back off the brake pedal. Keep the stock ratio of F:R piston size, discs size and pad size during upgrading and your bias will more or less not differ too much.
To improve on stock, use better pads, S/S brake lines, DOT 5.1 brake fluid as the first level upgrade. 2nd level upgrade is to mod the front and rears with larger discs from the larger engined model. 3rd, (which is my favourite), invest in a full BBK set.
So lets start the "Buy Yendor a set of BBK fund"
cheers..
yendor
Well-Known Member
Re: Braking Calipers
The rotational mass should dampen acceleration a little bit but it really depends on the size of the discs. The floating disc does help reduce the total weight of the discs but the part that really hurts is the steel discs running at the outer edge of the brakes that has great inertia. That's why porsche is pushing the carbon composite discs (PCCB) so hard. They offer lightness, size and stopping power.. The buyer just pays and pays...
if you can afford it, go for a proper (meaning 1 for each corner) setup of Big Brakes, The slight increase in inertia will be worth it. Just remember, being able to stop to avert an accident will pay for the brakes many times over. If you want to remain the same acceleration feel, get a set of forged rims along with the brakes to counter the rolling inertia... ha ha...
Guys... RIMs discussion!!!!!!!
Ha ha..
The rotational mass should dampen acceleration a little bit but it really depends on the size of the discs. The floating disc does help reduce the total weight of the discs but the part that really hurts is the steel discs running at the outer edge of the brakes that has great inertia. That's why porsche is pushing the carbon composite discs (PCCB) so hard. They offer lightness, size and stopping power.. The buyer just pays and pays...
if you can afford it, go for a proper (meaning 1 for each corner) setup of Big Brakes, The slight increase in inertia will be worth it. Just remember, being able to stop to avert an accident will pay for the brakes many times over. If you want to remain the same acceleration feel, get a set of forged rims along with the brakes to counter the rolling inertia... ha ha...
Guys... RIMs discussion!!!!!!!
Ha ha..
centurion
Well-Known Member
Re: Braking Calipers
I also have 1/2 a mind to buy that.
I research everything liao, nothing matches the TE37 not even the HRE rims, which are so lousy documentation.
Now, I have to get over the thought that it is so damn ugly that buying it is a big compromise. I've never let looks bother me before, but this is just F. ugly ....
1 problem which is not well documented, on TE37 it seems that there is a bug in their machining in recent rims, some users have complained that the wheel nuts come looser almost immediately and have to be torqued repeatedly over the next 300-500km to `set' it. I have a torque wrench, but how many people have that wrench?
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Offset: 49mm Bolt Pattern: 5-130
Rec. Tire Size: 235/40-18
**Lightweight: 18.0lbs.**
Note: Vehicle Has TPMS
Est. Availability: In Stock Manufacturer Part #: WVDV49P1
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Offset: 42mm Bolt Pattern: 5-130
Rec. Tire Size: 265/40-18
**Lightweight: 18.9lbs.**
Note: Vehicle Has TPMS
Est. Availability: In Stock Manufacturer Part #: WVDY42P1
I also have 1/2 a mind to buy that.
I research everything liao, nothing matches the TE37 not even the HRE rims, which are so lousy documentation.
Now, I have to get over the thought that it is so damn ugly that buying it is a big compromise. I've never let looks bother me before, but this is just F. ugly ....
1 problem which is not well documented, on TE37 it seems that there is a bug in their machining in recent rims, some users have complained that the wheel nuts come looser almost immediately and have to be torqued repeatedly over the next 300-500km to `set' it. I have a torque wrench, but how many people have that wrench?
Front Fitment
18x8.5 18x8.5 Original Price:
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$589
$589 (each)
Price:
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Offset: 49mm Bolt Pattern: 5-130
Rec. Tire Size: 235/40-18
**Lightweight: 18.0lbs.**
Note: Vehicle Has TPMS
Est. Availability: In Stock Manufacturer Part #: WVDV49P1
Rear Fitment
18x10 18x10 Original Price:
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Offset: 42mm Bolt Pattern: 5-130
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**Lightweight: 18.9lbs.**
Note: Vehicle Has TPMS
Est. Availability: In Stock Manufacturer Part #: WVDY42P1
bentai85
Well-Known Member
Re: Braking Calipers
I am asking all these is because i am considering of getting the after market brembo brakes... http://www.bmw-sg.com/forums/bazaar-bmw-parts-accessories/20424-sale-brembo-e46.html
Any comments on me getting that brake fixed on?
For rims... I am intending to get 19" deep dish rims for my ride... Preferably black.... Should go with the car right.
I am asking all these is because i am considering of getting the after market brembo brakes... http://www.bmw-sg.com/forums/bazaar-bmw-parts-accessories/20424-sale-brembo-e46.html
Any comments on me getting that brake fixed on?
For rims... I am intending to get 19" deep dish rims for my ride... Preferably black.... Should go with the car right.
