Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

[Motofish]

I am driving a E90 320i, done more than 90K km in 2 years 9 months. Had fluctuating RPM in the past but problem resolved after multiple software upgrades and instrument cluster replaced. Was driving last night with air-con OFF for about 10 mins. Stop in a carpark in Neutral for a short while and the car started knocking and eventually engine stalled. Restarted the car and tried to simulate the symptom again. The engine RPM fluctuated between 600-900 but engine did not stall. Its not the instruments as the engine movement (knocking) can be felt. When I turn the air-con on, the RPM needle is quite stable.

I have not change the spark plug before, planning to do so around 100K. Do you think this might be the problem? I will bring the car back to PML since I have another 3 months of warranty left. Just need to learn more about possible causes before going in. Otherwise will have to believe all the stories they spin in front of me. Your advise will be much appreciated.

 

[phil]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

My car idles like a farm tractor without air con too. I reckon the ECU has learnt to have the air con on and adjusts stuff to suit it. Once air con off, needs to relearn

However, you have quite a massive fluctuation there in RPM.

Yes, change plugs at least.

 

[jinooi]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

might also be ignition coil problem.

 

[Motofish]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

How stupid can that be, I mean BMW. Even the proton and kia knows how to idle properly with and without aircon, a BMW engine has to learn that????

Thanks Phil - will change the plugs very soon.

Any other views, anyone? I read that others had the problem and some got it resolve with another S/W upgrade. Maybe that what I have to under go again.

 

[phil]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

Actually, BMW's are very smart, it learns your driving style and adapts all settings to that.

Your O2 sensor could be stuffed as well. Seems you have driven alot but rarely service is it?

What fuel you use?

 

[Motofish]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

Not true about the seldom service part. In fact BMW recommend servicing every 25K but I do additional oil and filter changes in between PML servicing. I did not change plugs as they recommendation for the long life plugs is 100K.

Insteresting though about the fuel. I have always been on V Power until recently when the price of gas shot thru the roof. Now I alternate between V power and Shell 98. Will switch back and monitor. Thanks.

 

[phil]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

ah V Power, that could be the culprit. IMO it is bad fuel, too many additives that fould plugs etc

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

Did it stall when you depressed the brake, while depressing the brake to a dead stop ... or you were sitting around not moving when it died?

 

[Motofish]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

just sitting there, neutral gear and hand brakes ON.

 

[Motofish]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

Made 2 appointments at PML Alexander this week. Why? b'cos I thot if I can meet them at lunch time 2day to discuss and investigate the problem, this could reduce the time the car need to spent in the workshop later. The appointment was made last week and I arrived at PML 5mins past noon, and gotten queue number 352. The last number served was 351. There wasn't anyone else waiting and several of the 'busy' advisors were walking in and out as usual.

Guess how much time I have to sit there and wait for 352 to light up? 45 mins and I was the only customer waiting. OK maybe 45 mins (even if I missed my lunch) was not too long. What made me furious was the advisor who served me was conducting training for a new guy all the while I was sitting there watching him do it. If he was busy serving another customer, I can't complaints. What's the point making the appointment and made to wait while he conduct internal training? Why can't his training wait till the customer is served? Better still, he asked the OJT to join our discussion and teaching how to screw customer relationships.

Now comes the interesting part. I am sure you heard this before "there are many possible causes and we have to keep the car in the workshop for thorough investigation, we can't finish in one day". One fluctuatin RPM and they are going to take days to investigate, even when I brought the car in earlier for this discussion. After showing my fustration and I gave up, surrender on PML, I basically told him to screw the next appointment and I am going to drive until the car die on the raod and scrap it later. I cannot remember any other car manufacturer/agent neeeding several days to resolve an idling problem. Actually I am not angry with BMW as I love drving the car, its the attitute of the some of these PML guys that's killed this relationship. This incident will not change my mind about owning another BMW - a decision made long ago that I will seriously consider buying another BMW only if there is another agent other than PML.

To a certain extent, I am glad that I am coming to the end of the warranty period. No longer bounded to return to face these people in PML for repairs. Don't get me wrong, I have had great experiences with some of the guys (mostly from Kg Arang) but all you need is 1-2 rotten eggs to spoil the plot. Its BVO and J4C fro me going forward. PML can kiss my exhaust goodbye.

 

[phil]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

good result if you ask me!!

 

[Motofish]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

good result from PML kissing my exhaust or the professionalism from the BVO and J4C?

 

[leowjulen]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

I love PML. Brought a car there to assess flood damage (see other thread) and got a $30K bill. I asked to see a list of parts needed.

Me: Why do you have to replace the intake manifold? Isn't it just plastic tubes?
PML: Yes, but there's water inside.
Me: So?
PML: We can't get it all out and if we don't replace it, water will seep into the new engine.

I never heard such B.S. in my life!

Me: Why do you have to replace the whole engine?
PML: The pistons are seized
Me: Why are they seized?
PML: They can't move
Me: Why can't they move?
PML: The pistons are seized.

Yeesh. Let's try this another way!

Me: Can you turn the crank?
PML: No.
Me: Are there bent conrods?
PML: Yes.
Me: How many of them are bent?
PML: Maybe two or three.
Me: Why 'maybe'? Did you check?
PML: Not really. We would have to dismantle the engine.
Me: So it could be just one bent conrod?
PML: Maybe. Maybe more. But we did a compression test and it shows zero compression.
Me: How did you do a compression test if you can't turn the crank?
PML: Er... I'll have to check.

The guy was nice enough, but these answers weren't exaclty on the level, if you ask me...

 

[centurion]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

OMFG!

These guys are not mechanics!

What a bluff!!!! These guys are not mechanics!!! I suspected as much!

They are video game players, know how to plug into the OBD2 and just press buttons.

OMG!!! OMG!!!

 

[fasterthanferrari]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

Muahahahahahahah.....

I seriously hope PML's technical director is not reading this stuff...somebody's getting fired for sure!

 

[centurion]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

Muahahahahahahah.....

I seriously hope PML's technical director is not reading this stuff...somebody's getting fired for sure!

it's the technical director who hired these morons. And in any case, I'm sure he doesn't believe in customer engagement out of poorly scripted sessions by PR agencies...

 

[phil]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

good result from PML kissing my exhaust or the professionalism from the BVO and J4C?

the exhaust kissing

I love PML. Brought a car there to assess flood damage (see other thread) and got a $30K bill. I asked to see a list of parts needed.

Me: Why do you have to replace the intake manifold? Isn't it just plastic tubes?
PML: Yes, but there's water inside.
Me: So?
PML: We can't get it all out and if we don't replace it, water will seep into the new engine.

I never heard such B.S. in my life!

Me: Why do you have to replace the whole engine?
PML: The pistons are seized
Me: Why are they seized?
PML: They can't move
Me: Why can't they move?
PML: The pistons are seized.

Yeesh. Let's try this another way!

Me: Can you turn the crank?
PML: No.
Me: Are there bent conrods?
PML: Yes.
Me: How many of them are bent?
PML: Maybe two or three.
Me: Why 'maybe'? Did you check?
PML: Not really. We would have to dismantle the engine.
Me: So it could be just one bent conrod?
PML: Maybe. Maybe more. But we did a compression test and it shows zero compression.
Me: How did you do a compression test if you can't turn the crank?
PML: Er... I'll have to check.

The guy was nice enough, but these answers weren't exaclty on the level, if you ask me...

bwahahahaha, awesome.

 

[JuzMe]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

I love PML. Brought a car there to assess flood damage (see other thread) and got a $30K bill. I asked to see a list of parts needed.

Me: Why do you have to replace the intake manifold? Isn't it just plastic tubes?
PML: Yes, but there's water inside.
Me: So?
PML: We can't get it all out and if we don't replace it, water will seep into the new engine.

I never heard such B.S. in my life!

Me: Why do you have to replace the whole engine?
PML: The pistons are seized
Me: Why are they seized?
PML: They can't move
Me: Why can't they move?
PML: The pistons are seized.

Yeesh. Let's try this another way!

Me: Can you turn the crank?
PML: No.
Me: Are there bent conrods?
PML: Yes.
Me: How many of them are bent?
PML: Maybe two or three.
Me: Why 'maybe'? Did you check?
PML: Not really. We would have to dismantle the engine.
Me: So it could be just one bent conrod?
PML: Maybe. Maybe more. But we did a compression test and it shows zero compression.
Me: How did you do a compression test if you can't turn the crank?
PML: Er... I'll have to check.

The guy was nice enough, but these answers weren't exaclty on the level, if you ask me...

Hahaha, despite your pain, these are really good ones

 

[bravojs]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

Recently my 523i had same idling problems (4th problem in 2.5 years) , sent to PML and turns out its due to camshaft sensor malfunction.. so it could be another posssibility. PML took 2 days to solve it...

 

[Motofish]

Re: Fluctuating RPM @ idle then engine stalled?

Why do they always need multiple days to solve every problem? Guess how long do PML need to replace a plastic clip on the railing of the front seat - 1.5 hrs. I asked them to give me the stupid clip as I can do it myself in 2 seconds - they refuse and I have to sit in the showroom for 1.5 hrs. Efficiency and effectiveness - that's the problem in PML. I have driven many brands of car before and had various encounters with different agents and workshops - PML process and attitute is the worst. I have driven Toyota Camry before and never left the car in the workshop for more than 1 day. More reliable and simpler design maybe but think of the volume of car the agent have to handle everyday and you get a picture on how pathetic PML is.

Unless you have several cars in your garage, you will experience the phobia of driving to PML for servicing or repair as you may not see your car again for several days. Depending on how hard you pound on the table (or which lawyer you engage), you may not get a loan car. In the long run, I cannot live with this uncertainty. As long as PML remains as the sole agent and I don't see them making any effort to improve on their efficiency, this will be my first and last BMW. If I continue this relationship, the probability of me dying of heart attacks is higher than driving at crazy speed on NS highway.