HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

[sa13sg]

Just wanted to share my experience with HIOP ECU flashing.

I bought a 8 months old 730i recently and has been extremely happy with it so far. But itchy behind wanted a bit more power, so after talking to my friend who is a fellow forumer (YKY) here, decided to try out the HIOP ECU Flashing, since this is considered a Minimally Invasive procedure.

Went to a shop in SInming Drive, my ECU was taken out and the Programme was read and emailed to Germany. TOld to come back a week later.

Then I had cold feet and wasn't sure whether I wanted to go ahead. Bear in mind I already paid $800+.

After a few days, I thought what the heck, why don't I do Dyno test my car before and after the Flashing. If there is no difference in HP, I can reflash back to original programme. And maybe arm twist the shop to refund some money.

So went to Dynotech and Dyno my car. It was 190 HP. TOld to multiply by 1.3, actually should be 1.2 for 2 wheels drive.

Flash my car on the same day and the results was actually very good. Felt the power difference. But then thought maybe placebo effect.

Went to Dynotech again today to test and the HP now is 213. All in all an increase of 23 HP.

What do you guys think, is it worth the $800+ I spend.

I will try to scan the chart and post it next week.

 

[proscar]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

that's pretty impressive for a normally aspirated car. It is quite easy to do get the increase in bhp in turbo car, as most of the program basically crank up the boost.

It is definitely well worth the $800 for 10% increase in power.

 

[Nuke]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

Just wanted to share my experience with HIOP ECU flashing.

I bought a 8 months old 730i recently and has been extremely happy with it so far. But itchy behind wanted a bit more power, so after talking to my friend who is a fellow forumer (YKY) here, decided to try out the HIOP ECU Flashing, since this is considered a Minimally Invasive procedure.

Went to a shop in SInming Drive, my ECU was taken out and the Programme was read and emailed to Germany. TOld to come back a week later.

Then I had cold feet and wasn't sure whether I wanted to go ahead. Bear in mind I already paid $800+.

After a few days, I thought what the heck, why don't I do Dyno test my car before and after the Flashing. If there is no difference in HP, I can reflash back to original programme. And maybe arm twist the shop to refund some money.

So went to Dynotech and Dyno my car. It was 190 HP. TOld to multiply by 1.3, actually should be 1.2 for 2 wheels drive.

Flash my car on the same day and the results was actually very good. Felt the power difference. But then thought maybe placebo effect.

Went to Dynotech again today to test and the HP now is 213. All in all an increase of 23 HP.

What do you guys think, is it worth the $800+ I spend.

I will try to scan the chart and post it next week.

Hi there! Wow I think 23hp is good.

Sorry I have some questions.

1) What kind of dyno was it? Wheel fixed? or Rollers?

2) How many runs did you do before you settled on 213hp? Before the reflash how many did you do to derive 190hp?

3) Was this place recommended by the shop where u did the Hi-Op or are you a regular there?

4) How did u derive the multiply by 1.3 and what is the concept to that? Is it the same if u drive a all wheel drive vehicle? or front wheel?

5) Your butt-feel for the car now how? Good?

6) Did ur fuel consumption go up by much?

7) Where did you go to do this Hi-Op reflashing thingy? Can u post the contact up?

8) By arm twisting the shop, I take it they didn't guarantee you money back if it doesn't work is it? But how do u intend to achieve this?

Can't wait to see your chart man..You must be so happy.

Hey thanks a bunch man..jus tryin to learn here..

 

[sa13sg]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

The chart is attached. Hope it works

 

[sa13sg]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

Hi nuke, let me try to answer your question

1) What kind of dyno was it? Wheel fixed? or Rollers?

They have to take out my wheels

2) How many runs did you do before you settled on 213hp? Before the reflash how many did you do to derive 190hp?

I think only one run on both occasions

3) Was this place recommended by the shop where u did the Hi-Op or are you a regular there?

It was recommended by the Hiop shop. In fact he wanted to follow me there. But I went there on my own on both occasions. Do you think they could have adulterated teh results. The hiop guy look pretty honest

4) How did u derive the multiply by 1.3 and what is the concept to that? Is it the same if u drive a all wheel drive vehicle? or front wheel?

The guy who did the dyno said so. A forumer said I should multiply by 1.2 for 2 wheels drive. I am not sure which is correct

5) Your butt-feel for the car now how? Good?

Felt good. especially low end

6) Did ur fuel consumption go up by much?

Can't be sure

7) Where did you go to do this Hi-Op reflashing thingy? Can u post the contact up?

It is Juzz For Cars in Sinming drive. It is listed in the shops listing

8) By arm twisting the shop, I take it they didn't guarantee you money back if it doesn't work is it? But how do u intend to achieve this?

No. THey guarantee it won't screw up the engine

9. Can't wait to see your chart man..You must be so happy.

Must say I am Happy

Cheers.

 

[mistraele]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

that is the weirdest dyno graph ive seen yet. you shouldnt be getting such a dip between 4000 and 5200 rpm.

also, 190hp already sounds like your crank HP. its not uncommon for local dynos to under achieve stock figures... a lot has to do with the cooling system they have. so dont concern yourself with the multiplication of 1.2. anyway, the important thing about dynos, as you found out yourself , is not whether they report stock figures, but that they do track increases (or not) to your stock output.

in any case, as dynos measure torque at the wheels, the crank figures are already an extrapolation, so its best to look at the changes to wheel hp to get the true measure of your mods.

 

[sa13sg]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

Sounds a bit cheem for me. THe guy at Dyno said the dip is because it is 2 Vanos engine. Could be smoking me. Hope someone else can post their Dyno chart and see how it looks like.

Sorry to be a bit of a blur, but can you explain " they do track increases (or not) to your stock output."

How do you look at changes to wheel HP

Thanks

 

[Shaun]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

Dyno operator is smoking you. The graph is all messed up and it is not because of VANOS.

 

[sa13sg]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

Thanks SHaun. The guy at Dyno also name Shaun. Lucky I did not curse the person.

Sob Sob, so much for testing before and after. $160 for nothing. Now I will never know whether the Hiop was worthwhile.

 

[proscar]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

It is a strange looking dyno. $80 also quite expensive for 1 run, also he seems to apply 4WD, 2 x 2000 (title). Not sure what kind of input he sets. The other thing is graph only starts at 2000 rpm.

ST power is where quite a few of us in volvosg head for our run at various stage of tuning, they charge $60 per session for 2 wheel drive, normally 4 to 6 runs. For volvo R owners, with 4 WD, they charge $120 per session. Our main complaint was their cooling fan just ain't good enough, with OBDII plugged in (scanner that reads various ECU parameters real time including boost, intake air temp, timing retard etc), we were running IAT close to 85-90 degree celcius, and you can see the ECU retarding straight away, cutting boost, your BHP also follow the heat down the drain.


So at the end of the day, a more accurate indicator may be on road 1/4 mile timing before and after.

 

[piggyboyz]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

IMO,

During the first dyno, the 190hp is pretty correct. What was measured is i believed, the brake horse power since the wheel is taken off. 1.3 times is usually for rear wheel driven car but real life BMW figure is around 22% drive train loss and that should really work out to around 231hp, like what the paper spec claimed.

The dip in the middle of the graph is highly suspected to the dyno operator putting the car on Auto mode and cause the car to change gear at around 4.5k rpm

For all BMW 6 cyclinder car, the intake will change from short to long flow at the manifold, controlled by a flap in the intake manifold and a small dip is inevitable but other than the car changes gear, the dip in the graph is too hugh to be justified. Vanos is active in all range and it's not the culprit for the dip.

As for the increase in power, i realy think it's a bit optimistic. Power increase i believe there will be since i am running on a Hi-Op programme, and i felt the improvement as well, but 23hp increase ? I would think that it leaves too much to be desired for...

 

[Orh LuLu]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

The graph is all messed up and it is not because of VANOS.

Care to explain why its messed up?

 

[rex7_vtec]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

Hi sa13g,

I'm running a 3.0 engine as well and I have dynoed my car, however the dip I had was not as huge as the one you have. Nonetheless I have learned that more importantly in a dyno, it is more important to look at the characteristics of the power and torqe curve rather than the figures derived from it.

 

[Shaun]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

with OBDII plugged in (scanner that reads various ECU parameters real time including boost, intake air temp, timing retard etc), we were running IAT close to 85-90 degree celcius, and you can see the ECU retarding straight away, cutting boost, your BHP also follow the heat down the drain.

It's cool that the Volvo guys are quantifying as many parameters as practical and in the process seeing things that usually go unseen

For reference a 2.0T at ~350hp out of a smallish turbo with proper FMIC runs sub 50C IATs even in track conditions. A 1.8T at ~450hp out of a small-med turbo with ~35% blocked FMIC runs barely sub 60C IATs on a warm night.

 

[proscar]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

It's cool that the Volvo guys are quantifying as many parameters as practical and in the process seeing things that usually go unseen

For reference a 2.0T at ~350hp out of a smallish turbo with proper FMIC runs sub 50C IATs even in track conditions. A 1.8T at ~450hp out of a small-med turbo with ~35% blocked FMIC runs barely sub 60C IATs on a warm night.

Yeap, precisely, that's where one of the problem with dyno. Even with stock intercooler, my IAT seldom gets above 55 C on normal road use. The stock T5 runs a 16T, so that's not exactly a tiny charger, still the intercooler manage to keep things cool.

 

[mistraele]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

Sorry to be a bit of a blur, but can you explain " they do track increases (or not) to your stock output."

How do you look at changes to wheel HP

Thanks

unless you are talking about the really expensive dynometers with proper cooling that the big car companies and tuners use, then most dynos like this will never give you very very accurate readings.

so when you use dynos like this, dont be so concerned with the fact you arent making anything close to stock power. the important thing is you get your baseline reading, and then after you mod, if your mod is effective, you should then see an increase.

the guys explanation about double vanos doesnt wash. and still doesnt explain the dip. i double proscars suggestion and try ST power. I pay 60 bucks and they do 3 runs. No need to remove wheels some more.

changes to wheel horsepower will be reflected the same way as change to crank horsepower. its just that wheel horsepower is more accurate, as that is what the dyno measures. all the crank figures that you get from dyno graphs will be based on a corrective factor for transmission loss, and no two cars are the same.

this is what a dyno should look like.. the readings are for wheel horsepower/ torque.

 

[Apogee89]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

On the issue of dyno fans, the best and largest one I've seen so far is the one at Gek Lim at Defu...they have a new 4WD Dynapack.

 

[sa13sg]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

ok. by now it is clear everyone agreed that the chart is messed up. How about just looking at the end point. 190 vs 213. SInce both test were done the same wrong way, the test should be roughly the same right. SO the difference may be due to HIOP then. (help me out guys, I am trying to justify the $1000 I have spent)

 

[proscar]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

ok. by now it is clear everyone agreed that the chart is messed up. How about just looking at the end point. 190 vs 213. SInce both test were done the same wrong way, the test should be roughly the same right. SO the difference may be due to HIOP then. (help me out guys, I am trying to justify the $1000 I have spent)

I think 23 BHP may be a little bit optimistic. There are various ways that ECU remap cheat to make your butt dyno feel improve.

One easy way is throttle remap. Modern cars are all electronic throttle, so they can map the ECU such that when you whack 25% accelerator equals to 75% throttle open, and when you are at 50% accelerator travel, throttle is actually 100% open. What that means is, it gives you the sensation of increase power because pressing less on the accelerator equals more power. However, when you press more than 50% on the accelerator, nothing happens.

However, I am sure there is some power increase, otherwise hiop can forget about selling their software. They probably vary the vanos timing etc.

 

[proscar]

Re: HIOP ECU Flashing increase by 23 HP

unless you are talking about the really expensive dynometers with proper cooling that the big car companies and tuners use, then most dynos like this will never give you very very accurate readings.

so when you use dynos like this, dont be so concerned with the fact you arent making anything close to stock power. the important thing is you get your baseline reading, and then after you mod, if your mod is effective, you should then see an increase.

the guys explanation about double vanos doesnt wash. and still doesnt explain the dip. i double proscars suggestion and try ST power. I pay 60 bucks and they do 3 runs. No need to remove wheels some more.

changes to wheel horsepower will be reflected the same way as change to crank horsepower. its just that wheel horsepower is more accurate, as that is what the dyno measures. all the crank figures that you get from dyno graphs will be based on a corrective factor for transmission loss, and no two cars are the same.

this is what a dyno should look like.. the readings are for wheel horsepower/ torque.

This dyno looks suspiciously like that of a certain volvo T5 that I know! Definitely force fed, look at the peak in torque at 3000 RPM. Probably suffering from overheating on the run too with the loss of power at a premature 4500 RPM