ICE ICE baby - The Basics
- Thread starter Azrielsc
- Start date
oneHeadlight
Well-Known Member
Monster cables cost a bomb for most non ICE hardcore. Some argue its less of an issue for ICE than for home audio. Careful not to get fleeced by dishonest installers who charge many $$$ for cables.
Unless with a discerning golden ear, not many can tell the diff between a $20cable vs a $1000 one.
jus my 2 cents worth...
For those who are sticking to stock HU, try not to use more than one Hi-lo converter if you are using more than one amp, and if your amps have output. Our HU has very low signal, <1.5V only as far as i know.
Unless with a discerning golden ear, not many can tell the diff between a $20cable vs a $1000 one.
jus my 2 cents worth...
For those who are sticking to stock HU, try not to use more than one Hi-lo converter if you are using more than one amp, and if your amps have output. Our HU has very low signal, <1.5V only as far as i know.
Ghostrider
Well-Known Member
Actually the diff between a good cable and a poor cable diff is quite hugh. But you are right...if a 100 bucks cable can do the job...not all can tell the diff between a 100 and a 1000 bucks cable.
For car audio application...most of the time all those good cables go to waste as the termination part is wasted. Installer use good cables all the way from amps to door panel...there it is terminated to use a lousy cable so that it can squeeze thru the door. I saw this kinda install before...IMHO...waste of money. But owner does not want a big hole in the door panel...what to do.
BTW...if bros here going for high end install....do not stinge on the RCA and connectors. It makes a difference especially in the long run.
For car audio application...most of the time all those good cables go to waste as the termination part is wasted. Installer use good cables all the way from amps to door panel...there it is terminated to use a lousy cable so that it can squeeze thru the door. I saw this kinda install before...IMHO...waste of money. But owner does not want a big hole in the door panel...what to do.
BTW...if bros here going for high end install....do not stinge on the RCA and connectors. It makes a difference especially in the long run.
oneHeadlight
Well-Known Member
i don't have golden year...so i cant tell the diff much... 
darkavgr
Well-Known Member
Re: ICE ICE baby - The Basics
Given that all Beemers are now sold with integrated head unit, perhaps we can use this as start point for a few categories of upgrade:
- basic upgrade : change the F&R speakers
we can talk about component in F & perhaps coax in back
cost between $300-$1000
- amp
Throw in a 4 ch amp to power the F& R speakers
cost : $300 to $2000 (?)
- subwoofer
I dont know about this one.
With stock HU without a DSP, can one install a sub?
Perhaps the ICE experts can advise
cheers
Given that all Beemers are now sold with integrated head unit, perhaps we can use this as start point for a few categories of upgrade:
- basic upgrade : change the F&R speakers
we can talk about component in F & perhaps coax in back
cost between $300-$1000
- amp
Throw in a 4 ch amp to power the F& R speakers
cost : $300 to $2000 (?)
- subwoofer
I dont know about this one.
With stock HU without a DSP, can one install a sub?
Perhaps the ICE experts can advise
cheers
Re: ICE ICE baby - The Basics
Yes I am going to get my ride soon and would also like to know about the performance of the stock HU and speakers. Did not really listen to it during the test drive because I was a little giddy with excitement! But i do like nice and clean sound with sufficient bass (don't we all? but no need for ear shattering booms) and would like to know if the standard unit can make it. Saw the latest promotions for free upgrade to an alpine system for the 120i but was told the alpine isn't really worth it if we pay for it ourselves. Apparently it's worth about 1.5K.
What are the must-have upgrades? Really appreciate any advice on this. Thanks!
darkavgr;109598 said:
Yes I am going to get my ride soon and would also like to know about the performance of the stock HU and speakers. Did not really listen to it during the test drive because I was a little giddy with excitement! But i do like nice and clean sound with sufficient bass (don't we all? but no need for ear shattering booms) and would like to know if the standard unit can make it. Saw the latest promotions for free upgrade to an alpine system for the 120i but was told the alpine isn't really worth it if we pay for it ourselves. Apparently it's worth about 1.5K.
What are the must-have upgrades? Really appreciate any advice on this. Thanks!
Skyhawk A4SU
Member
Re: ICE ICE baby - The Basics
Quite a no of bros are in to ICE here.
Quite a no of bros are in to ICE here.
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SpeedLover
Well-Known Member
Re: ICE ICE baby - The Basics
With all the devices built in, I am just worry that after the taking apart and put back.. will everything be lose lose... ;-( Anyboyd know of any workshop that does a good job for BMW?
With all the devices built in, I am just worry that after the taking apart and put back.. will everything be lose lose... ;-( Anyboyd know of any workshop that does a good job for BMW?
Re: ICE ICE baby - The Basics
Forum dedicated to I.C.E setups:
sgsoundsystem.com - Powered by vBulletin
Forum dedicated to I.C.E setups:
sgsoundsystem.com - Powered by vBulletin
EleBest
Well-Known Member
Re: ICE ICE baby - The Basics
IMHO, The better way to mod ICE for BMW car(including continetal car but excluding Japanese Car) is go original:
Top Level:
Audi and BMW please choose Bang & Olufsen; Porsche please go Bose or Burmester, Mercedes goes for Burmester or Harman Kardon.
2nd Level:
BMW: Harman Kardon, Logic 7, Tophifi
3rd Level:
BMW: Harman Becker, Hifi
First of all, the sound source plays the most important role for the sound quality. For BMW, Top Level and 2nd Level use MOST optical fibre to transmit the sound from the Head Unit to Amplifer. As we know car's power are take from alternator, which is also a noise generator, but by using the optical fibre, these noises are fully filtered because optical and electric signal are completely different.
2nd, as one of the bro mentioned above, the connection in the door hinge is critical too, after market cable have to look for a limited space to squeeze the cable, but original cable has its original connector, which is pin-bushing 100% connector to connector, instead of using those China Made clap-in connectors.
3rd, Original speaker has it original fitment and size, which will avoid using this and that extra mounting boards and fixtures which will unbalance the sound.
4th, All the equallizer and balancing system are fully controlled by iDrive through CIC or NBT, no extra buttons dangling there, avoid any bothering when go back for servicing.
Surely, original solution is a bit expensive. but we believe this is the better way to mod the ICE for BMW.
IMHO, The better way to mod ICE for BMW car(including continetal car but excluding Japanese Car) is go original:
Top Level:
Audi and BMW please choose Bang & Olufsen; Porsche please go Bose or Burmester, Mercedes goes for Burmester or Harman Kardon.
2nd Level:
BMW: Harman Kardon, Logic 7, Tophifi
3rd Level:
BMW: Harman Becker, Hifi
First of all, the sound source plays the most important role for the sound quality. For BMW, Top Level and 2nd Level use MOST optical fibre to transmit the sound from the Head Unit to Amplifer. As we know car's power are take from alternator, which is also a noise generator, but by using the optical fibre, these noises are fully filtered because optical and electric signal are completely different.
2nd, as one of the bro mentioned above, the connection in the door hinge is critical too, after market cable have to look for a limited space to squeeze the cable, but original cable has its original connector, which is pin-bushing 100% connector to connector, instead of using those China Made clap-in connectors.
3rd, Original speaker has it original fitment and size, which will avoid using this and that extra mounting boards and fixtures which will unbalance the sound.
4th, All the equallizer and balancing system are fully controlled by iDrive through CIC or NBT, no extra buttons dangling there, avoid any bothering when go back for servicing.
Surely, original solution is a bit expensive. but we believe this is the better way to mod the ICE for BMW.
detach8
Well-Known Member
Re: ICE ICE baby - The Basics
Let me add on to Max's answer... a lot of non-original speakers require modification of the brackets. BMW makes it annoying because the stock brackets are 3 point whereas most aftermarket speakers have 4 point mounting. A badly done bracket (which I got when I bought a resale Mazda and then spent nights tearing it all out and going back to stock) will allow sound and other noises to "leak" and can be very undesirable, causing reverberations at certain frequencies. A properly made MDF bracket is required, and usually requiring a smaller driver (you can't fit a bigger driver into a smaller hole). Also original speakers systems have placements that aftermarket cannot achieve without making your car look like a JDM mess (note: affects resale value).
The BMW Z4 "hifi" option for example being such a small car has 10 (or 12?) speakers and they are all strategically placed (or rather, "hidden"). There are speakers in the footwell, behind the driver on the B pillar, behind the driver in the middle, in the middle of the dashboard in front of the iDrive screen, and of course in the door and tweeters in the A pillar. Some ICE enthusiasts may argue that these aren't ideal locations and some would even say a center speaker is nonsense but here's what I think -- this whole thing is an art to an extent of making the speakers look like they don't exist in the car. Otherwise why buy a BMW and make it look like a Honda? How else can you put 12 speakers in a car aftermarket without cutting holes all over?
But one thing I would discourage for the more serious "audiophile" is simply adding a tweeter. Doing so without a properly rated original amp would throw the impedance off. Such impedance cannot be measured by the multimeter as the multimeter is a DC current and the simple capacitor HPF to the tweeter would hide the impedance of the tweeter. Under operating load, the impedance will vary from 8ohms (what the iDrive was rated to push) and 4ohms (too low for the iDrive). While I don't think it will harm your iDrive, it will not sound at its best. It will definitely improve sound stage and some clarity, but it will still sound weak. The iDrive unit has a built-in EQ that boosts the treble to compensate for the lack of a tweeter on the standard sound system, so the addition of a tweeter would be too bright. I had to dial my treble down to -10 in my F10 when I installed the tweeter. Once you install the amp that receives digital signals then the signal from the iDrive is neutral.
If you only have budget for a tweeter, then add it to the back first. Why? Because the front speakers are wired parallel to the underseat subs. Adding a tweeter to the front ONLY will low the front impedance to under 2 ohms (dangerously low), while adding it to the back will bring the pair at the back down to an acceptable 4 omhs.
Let me add on to Max's answer... a lot of non-original speakers require modification of the brackets. BMW makes it annoying because the stock brackets are 3 point whereas most aftermarket speakers have 4 point mounting. A badly done bracket (which I got when I bought a resale Mazda and then spent nights tearing it all out and going back to stock) will allow sound and other noises to "leak" and can be very undesirable, causing reverberations at certain frequencies. A properly made MDF bracket is required, and usually requiring a smaller driver (you can't fit a bigger driver into a smaller hole). Also original speakers systems have placements that aftermarket cannot achieve without making your car look like a JDM mess (note: affects resale value).
The BMW Z4 "hifi" option for example being such a small car has 10 (or 12?) speakers and they are all strategically placed (or rather, "hidden"). There are speakers in the footwell, behind the driver on the B pillar, behind the driver in the middle, in the middle of the dashboard in front of the iDrive screen, and of course in the door and tweeters in the A pillar. Some ICE enthusiasts may argue that these aren't ideal locations and some would even say a center speaker is nonsense but here's what I think -- this whole thing is an art to an extent of making the speakers look like they don't exist in the car. Otherwise why buy a BMW and make it look like a Honda? How else can you put 12 speakers in a car aftermarket without cutting holes all over?
But one thing I would discourage for the more serious "audiophile" is simply adding a tweeter. Doing so without a properly rated original amp would throw the impedance off. Such impedance cannot be measured by the multimeter as the multimeter is a DC current and the simple capacitor HPF to the tweeter would hide the impedance of the tweeter. Under operating load, the impedance will vary from 8ohms (what the iDrive was rated to push) and 4ohms (too low for the iDrive). While I don't think it will harm your iDrive, it will not sound at its best. It will definitely improve sound stage and some clarity, but it will still sound weak. The iDrive unit has a built-in EQ that boosts the treble to compensate for the lack of a tweeter on the standard sound system, so the addition of a tweeter would be too bright. I had to dial my treble down to -10 in my F10 when I installed the tweeter. Once you install the amp that receives digital signals then the signal from the iDrive is neutral.
If you only have budget for a tweeter, then add it to the back first. Why? Because the front speakers are wired parallel to the underseat subs. Adding a tweeter to the front ONLY will low the front impedance to under 2 ohms (dangerously low), while adding it to the back will bring the pair at the back down to an acceptable 4 omhs.
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