Is J4C charging too much or MA charging too little!?
- Thread starter E90koh
- Start date
het
Well-Known Member
Re: Is J4C charging too much or MA charging too little!?
There is no inherent assumption that AD is better than 3rd parties but you and I know that at the very end of the day, if its a manufacturer issue, you can take legal action against AD (if they failed / refused to provide a permanent solution in a reasonable amount of time) and AD have more to lose .....i'm sure you cant do that to, in this instance, J4C ya ?? J4C can just say, sorry, I cant do it.....AD cant as they are legally binded and obligated. Which may also explain why 3rd party repair and labour cost should not be remotely close to an AD as they do not have to shoulder all these intangible legal responsibilities?
As long as PML is the AD, there will definitely be reliance on them....and yes, tats despite all the gazillion complaints posted........sad but true
kenntona;747929 said:
There is no inherent assumption that AD is better than 3rd parties but you and I know that at the very end of the day, if its a manufacturer issue, you can take legal action against AD (if they failed / refused to provide a permanent solution in a reasonable amount of time) and AD have more to lose .....i'm sure you cant do that to, in this instance, J4C ya ?? J4C can just say, sorry, I cant do it.....AD cant as they are legally binded and obligated. Which may also explain why 3rd party repair and labour cost should not be remotely close to an AD as they do not have to shoulder all these intangible legal responsibilities?
As long as PML is the AD, there will definitely be reliance on them....and yes, tats despite all the gazillion complaints posted........sad but true
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Re: Is J4C charging too much or MA charging too little!?
I didn't qualify Casio as a "no-up" watch. What I meant was not to wear an expensive watch and then try so hard to bargain for $500 discount.
If you are in shorts, slippers and Casio, and someone entertained you, the chances of you closing a good deal is higher.
Oilman said:
I didn't qualify Casio as a "no-up" watch. What I meant was not to wear an expensive watch and then try so hard to bargain for $500 discount.
If you are in shorts, slippers and Casio, and someone entertained you, the chances of you closing a good deal is higher.
Re: Is J4C charging too much or MA charging too little!?
Like a nice bro mentioned, if i have to pay $101 to repair my iphone at Apple Store and compare with repairing it at Sim Lim at $100, i will surely go to Apple Store (and i am refering to the one in Sg and not in China). I expect to pay lesser at outside shops bcos they don't have to pay royalties, high overheads, expensive land/shops, expensive equipment etc. All part and labour should not be more than AD. Shops can charge ultra premium if it is the only one who has the expertise. Bcos if you dont go to them, you lan lan also boh bian.
If there are any problems, at least you know Apple Store is legally binded to repair swee swee while outside shop can easily say sorry, ai lai mai suah. Bang table at Apple Store and they wet their pants. Bang table at Sim Lim and you get banged back.
Big manufacturers spent a lot on marketing, R&D etc. They make profit from aftersales bcos their product is not FMCG. You will continue driving your car for a few years and they will bill you as high margin as they can.
I have never seen any big time organisation making premium products, charging peanuts for aftersales.
Argh... still suffering from carrot head syndrom.
Like a nice bro mentioned, if i have to pay $101 to repair my iphone at Apple Store and compare with repairing it at Sim Lim at $100, i will surely go to Apple Store (and i am refering to the one in Sg and not in China). I expect to pay lesser at outside shops bcos they don't have to pay royalties, high overheads, expensive land/shops, expensive equipment etc. All part and labour should not be more than AD. Shops can charge ultra premium if it is the only one who has the expertise. Bcos if you dont go to them, you lan lan also boh bian.
If there are any problems, at least you know Apple Store is legally binded to repair swee swee while outside shop can easily say sorry, ai lai mai suah. Bang table at Apple Store and they wet their pants. Bang table at Sim Lim and you get banged back.
Big manufacturers spent a lot on marketing, R&D etc. They make profit from aftersales bcos their product is not FMCG. You will continue driving your car for a few years and they will bill you as high margin as they can.
I have never seen any big time organisation making premium products, charging peanuts for aftersales.
Argh... still suffering from carrot head syndrom.
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Re: Is J4C charging too much or MA charging too little!?
Don't sweat it... J4C is by no means a compromise. They are really good at what they do.
Maybe they charged more for labour because they're packed to the rafters these days, or it could just be a higher labour cost for this particular job.
E90koh;748079 said:
Don't sweat it... J4C is by no means a compromise. They are really good at what they do.
Maybe they charged more for labour because they're packed to the rafters these days, or it could just be a higher labour cost for this particular job.
jinooi
Well-Known Member
Re: Is J4C charging too much or MA charging too little!?
i guess your expectations are based on the wrong assumptions.
the AD for non-M cars is PML and not MA, which is the AD only for M cars.
MA is not obligated to provide aftersales to non-M cars. so if you bang table at MA, you are probably barking up the wrong tree - they are also 'outside shop' as far as non-M cars are concerned.
is your impression that MA should be charging much more resulting from the fact that they deal with M cars? then that impression is as misguided as "i should be paying more for PML car than PI car."
go and find out more about J4C and you will find out there are several ex-PML staff there, who are just as competent as the staff at MA or PML.
apples for apples, you will probably find out that MA has lowered their costs to be more competitive, rather than J4C charging more than necessary.
but feel free to scout around more and compare prices. go to the workshop you feel the most comfortable with.
i will stop posting to this thread as it is starting to sound like i am partial to J4C.
over and out...
E90koh;748079 said:
i guess your expectations are based on the wrong assumptions.
the AD for non-M cars is PML and not MA, which is the AD only for M cars.
MA is not obligated to provide aftersales to non-M cars. so if you bang table at MA, you are probably barking up the wrong tree - they are also 'outside shop' as far as non-M cars are concerned.
is your impression that MA should be charging much more resulting from the fact that they deal with M cars? then that impression is as misguided as "i should be paying more for PML car than PI car."
go and find out more about J4C and you will find out there are several ex-PML staff there, who are just as competent as the staff at MA or PML.
apples for apples, you will probably find out that MA has lowered their costs to be more competitive, rather than J4C charging more than necessary.
but feel free to scout around more and compare prices. go to the workshop you feel the most comfortable with.
i will stop posting to this thread as it is starting to sound like i am partial to J4C.
over and out...
Re: Is J4C charging too much or MA charging too little!?
Once i had a MINI, sent the car back to MH for servicing and checked on their JCW bodykit price. Surprisingly, their price is 30% cheaper than J4C and even Eng Soon. I was shocked - like you. Later then i realised it was bcos MH was trying to "kill" the outside workshops. I got from MH in the end. So... check out the prices before u commit. Now the price(s) is sky high again.
As for the stuff u changed, I changed it recently all at PML. I believe PML n MA share the same price list. All else listed in your 1st post are the same except i was charged extra $33 for change the belt tensioner. I also believe MA didn't charge you for labour for the replacement of the tensioner. Same labour for $77 was charged for removing alternator to change pulley. Am I the carrot here?? Part prices are equal.
Btw, u can always bang table at J4C too. Let them know your frustration and carrot head feel.
E90koh;748079 said:
Once i had a MINI, sent the car back to MH for servicing and checked on their JCW bodykit price. Surprisingly, their price is 30% cheaper than J4C and even Eng Soon. I was shocked - like you. Later then i realised it was bcos MH was trying to "kill" the outside workshops. I got from MH in the end. So... check out the prices before u commit. Now the price(s) is sky high again.
As for the stuff u changed, I changed it recently all at PML. I believe PML n MA share the same price list. All else listed in your 1st post are the same except i was charged extra $33 for change the belt tensioner. I also believe MA didn't charge you for labour for the replacement of the tensioner. Same labour for $77 was charged for removing alternator to change pulley. Am I the carrot here?? Part prices are equal.
Btw, u can always bang table at J4C too. Let them know your frustration and carrot head feel.
156F1
Well-Known Member
Re: Is J4C charging too much or MA charging too little!?
Quality of workmanship aside (which can be debated until the cows some home many times over), the bottom line is that outside shops should be cheaper than AD, otherwise it makes no sense to use them just simply on the basis of the legal obligation to use BMW parts and uphold the brand reputation (otherwise would lose the dealership sooner or later).
Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting AD. In fact, I currently do all maintenance at a very friendly outside workshop that is a sponsor here. I must say the charges are similar to PML, for some items slightly higher and others, lower. I go to this workshop because of the fast turn-around and the man himself does the job, rather than employed mechanics who can quit and run to other workshop anytime and thus, don't really care about doing a good job to uphold the reputation.
So it's not always about price but also other factors like trust, convenience, etc. But when the difference in price is large, say over 10%, then the preference for AD is valid for the reasons cited in the first paragraph.
Quality of workmanship aside (which can be debated until the cows some home many times over), the bottom line is that outside shops should be cheaper than AD, otherwise it makes no sense to use them just simply on the basis of the legal obligation to use BMW parts and uphold the brand reputation (otherwise would lose the dealership sooner or later).
Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting AD. In fact, I currently do all maintenance at a very friendly outside workshop that is a sponsor here. I must say the charges are similar to PML, for some items slightly higher and others, lower. I go to this workshop because of the fast turn-around and the man himself does the job, rather than employed mechanics who can quit and run to other workshop anytime and thus, don't really care about doing a good job to uphold the reputation.
So it's not always about price but also other factors like trust, convenience, etc. But when the difference in price is large, say over 10%, then the preference for AD is valid for the reasons cited in the first paragraph.
