Self Importation - Advice / Join me

[Puny]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

I have a friend in the US who was keen to bring in his own car. He's currently in the US and his GF has privileges (military discount) to purchase the car with substantial discount (much lower than what dealerships can offer) and it can be spec-ed as RHD as well.

The last time he calculated, the full cost including governmental taxes (OMV/ARF), freight, inclusive of COE was aprx S$160K for a brand new E93 335i cabriolet to be on the road. He never got around to doing it or he's been busy.

S$160K sounds extremely low, or he may have left out some part of the equation, but I believe the norm is often higher than that?

 

[Turbo]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

yea...

got the 135i Coupe in myself...no need to settle for any 1**i hatchback that has been lying around for dunno how long...

You mean you self imported the 135? If that the case, this thread got an answer to it,
can reveal the saving?

 

[DRV]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

I guess I opened a can of worms a tasty can.

Checked the Japan website (go check it out, very interesting)
Japanese Used Cars Auction Online

They have all auctions and prices of recently sold. The prices are not cheap, like Diablo said, about 100k+ for 335 or 650. With that OMV, no significant savings.
But the PIs bring in at 50k OMV, so whatever they did, the savings are substantial >60k
(20% customs tax on OMV, GST, ARF 100% of OMV).

 

[DRV]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

Puny,

Need to check if military vehicles can be changed hands and exported. For diplomatic vehicles if the diplomat sells on the full taxes are incurred by the buyer. And the diplomat cannot export the vehicle back to his own country without paying taxes. Can the car come to S'pore without her? I may be mistaken wrt military vehicles as they may be upfront discounts given to servicemen/women for their service to country.

If that's the case then $$$ savings galore... 'cos US cars are cheap but LHD. Common market for RHD cars is UK but purcahse and export very expensive 'cos pound very high.

 

[Turbo]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

best way to beat the system is to set up an OMO company, can ? no issue with financing etc etc. Indent on demand.

 

[DRV]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

Summary so far...
There are many issues that need to be addressed including
1. Price of car and reliability if used
2. OMV
3. Financing

We need to work together if this is going to succeed in a big way. Those who have done so please advice if possible...
At the very least, understanding the costs involved will allow us to determine if we want to bring in by ourselves or just buy from AD/PI/used dealer. At least we enter with our eyes open.

The following people have at least shown some interest (correct me if I'm wrong & please add if interested)
1. DRV
2. Blechberu
3. Darth Vader
4. Mixmaster
5. DriveAllDay
6. Jason3S

We can form an entity or even company to work on this for our and other bros' benefit. I'll be happy to chip in my time and set up a discussion group to meet in person.
Please PM me to indicate what time frame you are looking for the car and how much time / effort you wish to put into this. For eg. I'm willing to put 2-3 months time and to fly to Japan / UK etc. for holiday + car shopping. It's a learning experience for me, even if at the end decide to buy from dealer in S'pore.

Will be nice if the story goes like this...
Singapore Beng walks into BMW head office in Munich.
Sales Exec: Vat do you vant?
S'pore beng: BMW car lah, if not come BMW showroom for what?
Sales Exec: Vhich model? Zee cars are expensive. Maybe 320i for you?
S'pore beng: Eh, here got list of 20 cars for my brudders. Eh, 5 x 335, 5 x 650, 5 x M3, 5 x M5. Got stock? Lim Peh pay cash...
Sales Exec (talks to manager): Vow, in zhat case zve give 10% discount... bring more brudders next time.
S'pore beng goes back with 20 BMWs in tow with 10% discount, lower OMV and taxes, and all brudders happy

 

[The Mixmaster]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

Hi DRV

I am interested to participate. Since I only know how to read and write (i.e. I have a legal background) and count a bit, I offer to help read/interprete applicable laws and regulations and write letters.

 

[davidtch]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

How come nobody ask physicist? He has done it. He even has a write-up in mycarforum.

 

[Physicist]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

I can help out if you guys need it but I won't be able to reveal the dealer details. In fact there are like 6 units of 335 Cab, 1x 997 Turbo Tip, 3 Gallardo Spyders, 1x DB9 and 2x S5 in Europe for immediate delivery now.

 

[Physicist]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

I have a friend in the US who was keen to bring in his own car. He's currently in the US and his GF has privileges (military discount) to purchase the car with substantial discount (much lower than what dealerships can offer) and it can be spec-ed as RHD as well.

The last time he calculated, the full cost including governmental taxes (OMV/ARF), freight, inclusive of COE was aprx S$160K for a brand new E93 335i cabriolet to be on the road. He never got around to doing it or he's been busy.

S$160K sounds extremely low, or he may have left out some part of the equation, but I believe the norm is often higher than that?

No way in hell can it be only S$160,000. Its a long shot from there.

 

[Puny]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

No way in hell can it be only S$160,000. Its a long shot from there.

Hi Physicist, I reckoned the same thing as well, it sounded too low to be possible even for a coupe. A couple of queries though just to clear some doubts.

1) Does it entirely depend on the OMV of the car? or are there other factors, for e.g. if the mean/average price of a popular car with OMV of 60K is 200K based on LTA records.

If one is able to get the same car model to be declared/sold with an invoice value of 40K, would LTA accept that variance and correspondingly impose government vehicle taxes based on 40K or take the common value of 60K (can this be considered "open-market" value?).

On another note, I'm not sure how this affects the "used car" import regulations that were introduced more recently as a used car could have been sold at much lower than dealership rates.

2) Getting a loan from the bank may be possible though a business entity (usually a PI)?. My neighbour just imported his own Civic Type R, his savings was about 6-7K off the PI prices. He did it though a 3rd party and managed to secure a loan. The general consensus is that full cash payment is usually required, but are there accessible alternatives out there for someone who's not in the car business?

 

[DriveAllDay]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

DRV

Yes, I am interested, but more likely a new Boxster than an old one.

bleachberu,

Hats off to you for your investment record. I am a terrible investor, so would not dream of getting >5% consistent investment return a year. Do have to point out one thing though: your mentioning of 5.6% effective loan rate is correct; however, this rate goes UP, not DOWN if you change car before loan tenure is up. If you do so say 3 years into your 10 year loan, your effective loan rate (on monthly reducing basis) would actually be more like 8-9% a year. That's how banks make money off auto loan. I know... I work in one.

Cheers.

 

[Physicist]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

Hi Physicist, I reckoned the same thing as well, it sounded too low to be possible even for a coupe. A couple of queries though just to clear some doubts.

1) Does it entirely depend on the OMV of the car? or are there other factors, for e.g. if the mean/average price of a popular car with OMV of 60K is 200K based on LTA records.

If one is able to get the same car model to be declared/sold with an invoice value of 40K, would LTA accept that variance and correspondingly impose government vehicle taxes based on 40K or take the common value of 60K (can this be considered "open-market" value?).

On another note, I'm not sure how this affects the "used car" import regulations that were introduced more recently as a used car could have been sold at much lower than dealership rates.

2) Getting a loan from the bank may be possible though a business entity (usually a PI)?. My neighbour just imported his own Civic Type R, his savings was about 6-7K off the PI prices. He did it though a 3rd party and managed to secure a loan. The general consensus is that full cash payment is usually required, but are there accessible alternatives out there for someone who's not in the car business?

Hi Puny,

Used car import and registration as a new car with full 10yr COE has an impact on the PARF value if I'm not mistakened. I have yet to explore that area.

I would prefer not to reveal too much on the OMV part for obvious reasons

Getting a loan is not a problem at all. Full cash payment is required but the loan can be arranged with loan companies (Alpine Credit and etc... No affiliation with me) or banks prior to registration. The loan is the simplest thing to settle in this aspect. Its not even considered a problem. The only problem is of course the approved loan amount.

I did the self import for my cab and also for a friend's Porsche Cayman which is incidentally on board the ship right now. ETA is end of this month or a few days earlier.

It sure is fun doing all these. Learn quite abit about the business

 

[rliewky]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

interesting thread. i recall a previous thread on this self import. a few years back started by one of the bros here. I believe some of the challenges are

1) find a reliable source to buy the car and at the price that make $$ sense
2) finding a way to get a loan or pay full in cash
3) getting a reliable forwarder to ship the car to singapore
4) familiar with the process of registering the car in singapore. It looks quite straight forward on the LTA website

I personally think, finding a reliable source and getting the price you want is the biggest challenge.

they are many car dealer oversea but how can you be sure that they are reliable? unless you have deal with them before or know someone who does.

another thing is the buying price, too expensive it will not be worthwhile. too low, LTA may think you under declare.

 

[Racebred]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

during my search for self importation last year, i have covered ground on LTA documentation required, freight arrangements and port clearances, as well as financing. the only last bit that failed me was the ability to find BMWs and porsches that was actually sold at OMV. so i gave up and bought something else instead.

if anyone wants a reliable freight carrier, who has the expertise in bringing in a prestige car brand in singapore, can consider this contact. fees include port clearances.

i've flown down to bmw uk and worked out a deal with their tax-free sales dept, but after calculations, costs still too high.

perhaps we can come together for a milo peng session and share our knowledge and expertise in bringing in cars ourselves.

 

[bleachberu]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

Great that this thread is developing nicely. Lots of good feedback and interest. It seems like a few of you have done it successfully in the past. Well done! I'm definitely keen on a kopi session with the rest of you to discuss more. I would be happy to do my bit for the group.

Physicist - could you share with us the approx cost savings vs. agent and vs PI? I think a lot of us would be interested in that to justify the time and effort in bringing a car in.

For bros who want to bring in new, what about after sales & warranties? For porkers, I recalled Centurion was saying we could register the car with SA for a small fee but you're still low in the pecking order compared to an agent car. What about new bimmers? For me, I'm probably going for a used one, so after sales may not matter as much as warranty (just in case I got a lemon).

Looks like a few of you have 'lobang' on the financing bit and this is the least of the concerns.

DriveAllDay,

Interesting comment on the effective loan rate going up. I haven't had a chance to work that one out. PM me if you have the details. AFAIK, HP interest costs have already been factored and amortised over the tenure in unlike mortgages which are reducing balance. I just took into account the 20% + 1% penalty. Do also consider that the cash I saved by taking a loan is invested on a compounding basis unlike a HP loan which is straight line.

Averaging 5%-6% is not difficult if you have access to all asset classes. Averaging 9-10% is much more difficult obviously and requires more risk appetite.

Lets keep this thread going.

Cheers,
B

 

[Racebred]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

for bmw warrenties, those cars which are bought from overseas authorised dealers are still covered by the international warrenty. if you buy from any other sources, then no warrenty. you'll have to asess if the savings are justified in not having coverage. it doesnt cost you anything to get your car registered in PML. for Stuttgart, i believe it's $2500 or something. but yes you will have to queue behind everyone else who profited stuttgart.

returns of 15-20% is reasonable to expect if you're willing to wait mid-term. And that coincides with my car loan tenure. So might as well take car loan. Financing is not a problem. Easiest way is to go to a PI and tell them you'll want to do financing thru them. They may comply as they earn commission without effort. If you import in through your own name, it'll be difficult to get financing AFTER the car's in, as your bill of lading (i think thats what its called?) will have your name. The car'll be under your name and not under the finance company. Which is why financing also has to be prepared at the same time when you're purchasing your car.

 

[rliewky]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

i have the impression that all bmw comes with 2 years of international warranty?

 

[DRV]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

From what I understand, BMW Asia have no choice but to honor warranties from authorised dealers... although PML will treat you like 2nd class citizen.

From other dealers / used, although I think legally they still have an obligation 'cos it's still a BMW, they may try to provide reasons such as lack of service history etc. Anyone can confirm this? Or anyone tried to force BMW Asia to show hand?

 

[DRV]

Re: Self Importation - Advice / Join me

Bros,

I am trying to schedule a meeting to see what options we have re: importation of cars, or to purchase locally but with our eyes wide open.

For those who have expressed your interest, you will receive a PM from me and we can discuss the time to meet. Once the time is fixed I'll post it.

Anyone else interested please PM me.