Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

[kenntona]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

Just that historically, many people that bought the 5 series expected refinement. 4 potters doesn't offer that.... even those with twin scroll turbo with big torque numbers.

Actually I believe the IL6 owners have to be differentiated - the owners of the 520/523 do not quite expect the same "refinement" as the 530 owners, for instance.

The 520/523 owners were not expecting the same attributes described in this thread, and hence in the many years of the e60 life cycle you have seen e60 owners complaining about the inadequate delivery of the 520/523 or even 525 and hence the Velocity/Powerbox types of mods (or even supercharging for that matter). Drawing the parallel with the 3 series, had the smaller c.c. models come with better output numbers, that part of the equation would have been addressed.

I think going forward, it is not the number of cylinders per se, but the way the power are delivered on efficiency basis. On the same note, many M purists dread the phasing out of high revving NA Ms....... but in few years' time, we might look back into the twin turbo M platform and be amazed how V8 and V10 have given way to V6 TT and V8 TT......

 

[st8800]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

U have a point too if u dissect it like that... but I think even 523i users expect some form of refinement over 520i users who have all along been on 4 pots. It does seem that sweeping changes are coming though... with all the emissions control... guess we just have to move along with the times.

 

[hitmee]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

I rather want more hp and torque over that bit more refinement

 

[MW]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

Hp n torque are illusory in Sg. Refinement defines the drive, even if it's only 1km

 

[st8800]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

I concur....

 

[kenntona]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

Hp n torque are illusory in Sg. Refinement defines the drive, even if it's only 1km

Small IL6 on a 1.7-1.8 ton car with a non DCT gearbox..... simi refinement? Dun kid yourself !!!

 

[wt_know]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

i'm a badge whore + value-for-money, give me anything that is good enough for spore road, i will take it.
if $$$ is no issue, of coz nothing less than ///M or other V8

 

[wobbles]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

2.5L not exactly small la, bro Kenntona. Now even Bobo (Volvo) is fitting 1.6L into their S80, and Merc is cramming a 4 potter into their S-class, so 2.5L IL6 considered the last of the big wasteful extravagant movers liao, I reckon...

 

[kenntona]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

I think the correct phrase to use is "driving feel" if compared to peers like Audi or Merc.

"Refinement" is a self-deceiving word long used by BMW owners to cover up brand ostentation and loyalty. LOL, flame suit on.......

 

[davidtch]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

Small IL6 on a 1.7-1.8 ton car with a non DCT gearbox..... simi refinement? Dun kid yourself !!!

That's better than N46B20 pulling a 1.5 ton E60 or N54B22 pulling E60.

 

[st8800]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

I think the correct phrase to use is "driving feel" if compared to peers like Audi or Merc.

"Refinement" is a self-deceiving word long used by BMW owners to cover up brand ostentation and loyalty. LOL, flame suit on.......

Don't take this as a flame bro... but refinement isn't so hard to understand and I don't think it is an illusion. The i6L is smooth and creamy when u are gentle on the throttle. It doesn't howl like a landmover when push it hard like many 4 cylinders. Doesn't rattle like a taxi when idle like a 4 potter.

2.5l may not have have huge torque and hp but it is still decent for city driving for most mortals.

 

[golilok]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

How about the F10 but fitted with the NA52 3L?

 

[wobbles]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

How about the F10 but fitted with the NA52 3L?

I think that 528i is only for the Malaysian market, outfitted with the N52B30 - the same engine in the E65/66 and F01/02 730i/Li. That's a 258hp 300Nm engine - formidably equipped with enough metal equines and twisting pull - and by virtue of it being an inline 6 - enough to satisfy the average city driver while going about its business in a buttery, silky smoothness

 

[hitmee]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

Going by this, BMW is making a big big mistake in putting n20 into f10 and pricing it above the 6 potters too.

BMW is gone !

 

[kenntona]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

That's better than N46B20 pulling a 1.5 ton E60 or N54B22 pulling E60.

The E60 is not 1.5 tons leh, and what's N54B22 block? You meant M54B22 izzit?

Don't take this as a flame bro... but refinement isn't so hard to understand and I don't think it is an illusion. The i6L is smooth and creamy when u are gentle on the throttle. It doesn't howl like a landmover when push it hard like many 4 cylinders. Doesn't rattle like a taxi when idle like a 4 potter.

I think the word "refinement" is so tricky if not put in proper context.

Peer comparison - normal specs 5er (non M) vs A6 vs E class, I am not sure if the 5er could stand out on "refinement", if you know what I mean...... As far as driver feel and road engagement are concerned, the BMW could well win hands down. But if we ask a passenger on the more "refined" car, the answer could be different.

Siblings comparison - normal spec E60 5er across range, from 520 to 545, how to determine "refinement"?

 

[davidtch]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

The E60 is not 1.5 tons leh, and what's N54B22 block? You meant M54B22 izzit?

Sorry, it is M54B22 block. I though E60 is the same weight as E90. That's why N46B20 is also used in E60.

 

[st8800]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

The E60 is not 1.5 tons leh, and what's N54B22 block? You meant M54B22 izzit?


I think the word "refinement" is so tricky if not put in proper context.

Peer comparison - normal specs 5er (non M) vs A6 vs E class, I am not sure if the 5er could stand out on "refinement", if you know what I mean...... As far as driver feel and road engagement are concerned, the BMW could well win hands down. But if we ask a passenger on the more "refined" car, the answer could be different.

Siblings comparison - normal spec E60 5er across range, from 520 to 545, how to determine "refinement"?

Of courseI must add... refinement can be subjectIve. To a person driving a 335i, perhaps a 523i might be unrefine. To another driving a 740i, a 335i is unrefine. Whereas to a person driving a Rolls Royce, a lot of cars are unfine. Hehe

 

[kenntona]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

Of courseI must add... refinement can be subjectIve. To a person driving a 335i, perhaps a 523i might be unrefine. To another driving a 740i, a 335i is unrefine. Whereas to a person driving a Rolls Royce, a lot of cars are unfine. Hehe

Hence gotta compare (1) between peers (2) between siblings.

Example (1) between peers - 3er vs C class vs A4 or comparables
I bet most will argue that 3er has the best "driver feel" even though that alone is subjective. But let's accept that and ask - does that necessarily mean "refinement"? What about interior, comfort, insulation...... ?

Example (2) between siblings - 318 vs 325 vs M3
M3 can be harsh and raw to some, but obviously, hard to say that the 318 is more refined than the 325 or 335, whether we look at power delivery or options per se..........

My point is that the IL6 is so entrusted it became a bit of a cult following in the BMW stable. Hence the word "refinement" to accord such endorsement. However, the turbo blocks are not tested and adopted yet. In a parallel context, we will moan the loss of a V10 M5 but soon many will embrace the V8 TT, and then moan about the loss of V8 M3 and soon we will harp on the 3.0 TT M3.......

 

[MW]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

Say watever u all like. If I feel that there is refinement in driving a bulldozer, then that's my own view. Nobody's right or wrong so we shouldnt take "diving feel" to a scientific level of analysis. Which bah kut teh shop has the best tasting soup?

 

[hitmee]

Re: Test-driven:528 f10 vs 525 e60

We should consider co2 emission too.
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