-
Classifieds Rules
For Sellers - Item Listing Requirements:
1. List your price. *
2. Show/attach images/photos of item. *
3. Provide clear contact instructions (List phone number, email or PM). **Required.
4. Private Sales Only.
5. Relevant items only.
6. No Indirect Advertising / Promoting Of Other Services and Companies
7. Only members with 20 posts and more can start new threads
8. No Thread Hijacking. Start your own Topic.
9. Post only 1 Topic per sale. No cross-posting in other forums. No bumping of Topics more than once a day.
10. Close your Topic after sale has been completed. (Click 'Administrative' on top of your thread for closing options)We will remove threads if they do not list the above requirements.
For Buyers:
1. Caveat Emptor - Before buying from user, do your homework. Check out the person's posting history, number of posts etc.
2. This is a service we provide free and for the members convenience - we're not responsible for any deals gone bad.For everyone else:
1. No OT. They will be deleted. If you continue despite us warning you, we will ban you from the classifieds completely.
2. Report all suspicious sellers. If you've seen or come across them from other boards/forums - do report them immediately - it will help everyone here a great deal.Report all bad experiences (for both sellers/buyers) on the Buyer/Sellers forum.
WTS: 335i Coupe DCT
- Thread starter t3012
- Start date
Re: WTS: 335i Coupe DCT
Sad but true, PI 335 going at $210,XXX, to sell close to this price, might as well get PI.To make matter worse, used import lagi depress the price, honestly i see no future on AD selling non bread and butter car, in this instance PML.
Hate to say this ,It seem PI is the way for car with such price disparity.
Anyway, BUMP for you.
kuvesh;440144 said:
Sad but true, PI 335 going at $210,XXX, to sell close to this price, might as well get PI.To make matter worse, used import lagi depress the price, honestly i see no future on AD selling non bread and butter car, in this instance PML.
Hate to say this ,It seem PI is the way for car with such price disparity.
Anyway, BUMP for you.
t3012
Active Member
Re: WTS: 335i Coupe DCT
From VAGSG:
"What you Need to know - When Buying A PI Car
There is little known detailed information on the PI business.
Recently have done some homework and will share with all of you the objective facts.
Of course some chaps wont like this post, but it's all about transparency and sharing what I have found in the process of due diligence while considering selecting the next purchase.
As long as you know the truthful facts and what they imply - then the potential buyer can make his/her own informed decision on the purchase you are free to spend you hard earned money on PI or AD car as you so wish.
This does not have to apply to VW/Audi, even a PI porsche/BMW is subject to the same principals for most german cars:
PI cars come with factory warranty?
- Yes they come with factory warranty provided both the following conditions are met:
(1) the PDI (predelivery inspection) is done by an authorised dealer
(2) the service schedule is diligently adhered to and the service booklet stamped by an Authorized service center.
- With regards to PDI, some official brands in SGP refuse to PDI the cars at all for the PIs. Hence you will see high end PI sports cars (some 911s!) getting the PDI stamp in funny places like perhaps india! strange but true.
- Why is the PDI important: this make sure that during the transit and delivery from the factory, the car arrives at the customer in a standard that is fit for purchase by the customer. this does not mean just a wash and polish and stripping off the paint protector plastic. For complex german cars the factory will disable most things in the car and place the car in a "transport mode" - to exit this mode you will need a factory diagnostic tool to enable this change.....you dont simply drive on-and-off the car on a Ro-ro transporter ship....its much more complex than this!
PDI is not clear, now i need the service stamps
- Even if the PDI is cleared by an authorized dealer now you must collect the service stamps. Most PIs tell you that they have tie ups and you can service you car at ABC & XYZ workshop and get the service book stamped. Obviously none of these are authorized service centers....therefore the stamp is not valid in any sense when presented to the factory for claims.
I learnt from the representatives of the brands that this is a must because only the authorized service center is equipped with the tools and knowhow and prior training to work on the vehicle. There are specialized diagnostic computers and software. there are specific 'guided fault finding' protocols, specific repair instructions and manuals. Germans are tight ass engineers - every screw has a torque rating assiged to it and the factory will provide all this info and knowhow to the authorized agent.
If the car was cared for by the proper people, then the factory will be in a position to honor the warranty.
Was offered all manner of things including up to 5 years warranty from some chap. When I asked if their appointed service center had the knowhow and the proper computers for the diagnostics + electronic repair manuals - the silence was golden!
So now you have the proper PDI & service and your gearbox breaks
Yes you can claim....but you have to fork out the amount upfront first usually.
Here's how it works with an Authorized dealer car:
- you blow up the 30 grand double clutch gearbox
- car under warranty and properly serviced.
- in general, AD will change you gearbox and deal with the factory, the bulk of the claim is transparent to you. even if the factory says no full claim refund the AD will shut up and wont ask you to pay for the difference would they?
Here's how it works with the PI car:
- blow up the gearbox
- parts will be sourced from the AD cos the PI will ultimately go to them for all these big issues.
- you pay upfront say $30k cash and wait for the gearbox
- then your damage gets assesed, and let say the factory says they will only pay you back $20k. you are 10K out of pocket immediately.
- some of the PIs might offer to top up this difference, some not at all, some avoid this topic of conversation
- the process is much more difficult and not transparent to you et cetera.
a good example is the M3 from a PI. at least PLM still touch it.
try bringing a PI 911 to stuggart and you will get a even stiffer answer.
Is my PI car brand new?
Yes - according to the PI.
NO. according to the factory and here is why exactly:
The PI will take the car from another country, in the bulk of the cases the car will have to be registered in that country of origin - *this is when the factory warranty starts*. Then the PI imports it and it sits in the showroom locally for say 6 mths. you lose 6 mths from the date registered with the factory.
Of course some of the PIs give great service and will still somehow find a way to honor the promised warranty for a given period. this may be performed outside the knowledge of the factory and at the PIs expense.
*PI will always tell you that the car is brand new and never registered.
Well i have done some detective work and can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that (almost all) cars are indeed registered in another country before importing to SGP and there is a paper trail to prove it.
*please note that this discussion will not entail a car known as a used import. dont even bother with these. when you find out that your OMV is rock bottom low on these classes of PI cars you wont buy them*
The only time the car is indeed really not registered is when the PI group themselves are the official Dealer of that particular car in the foreign country.
PI cars may not be specific for SGP Tropical Climate.
Most of your german autobahn stormers are sourced from europe.
they are very likely not topicalized for this region.
there are subtle differences for the cars in terms of cooling like additional radiators etc. also there are different states of tuning also for the high performance cars for a hotter climate. when we go into diesel in the future the tuning too will be different for European Diesel vs Diesel meant for countries that have higher sulphur contents et cetera.
Let say you have a non tropicalised "bi-turbo tricked out GT bahn stormer cruise missile". Of course if the dammed thing then has an overheating problem here being imported from Europe - the AD sure as hell aint gonna help you. you can see how much trouble this might escalate into.
just ask an owner of a certain xxx DTM that is PI. its a 1millon dollar paperweight!
PI cars have lower resale
just ask any PI porsche owner or BMW owner what the market sentiment is like for their cars
there are more things that i can ramble on about but I will stop here:
In Summary:
when you distill every debated point down one singularity, you have only one issue to deal with when considering buying a car: - it is not about the outright purchase price. you must see it as a TCO event (Total Cost of Ownership). What is your Total Cost of Ownership?
What can the AD do for you? good will? longtime customer? etc etc
What can the PI offer you in terms of written assurance for the automobile which is probably 2nd most expensive purchase in your life after a house. (unless you are a watch freak
)
if you are clear and know, then by all means you are free to spend you hard earned dosh at either for various reasons of your own.
lastly please reply sensibly in good forum decorum to this thread befitting of an intellectual discussion. hate to trouble the moderators."
I agree that PI cars are cheaper but I read this on the VW forum and it makes sense. For me, I don't mind paying that extra premium for the peace of mind. I had lot of issues with my PI Golf GTI before. Furthermore, my 335i is with the DCT gearbox and I doubt the PI workshops are equipped to handle the gearbox should it fail...Turbo;440386 said:
From VAGSG:
"What you Need to know - When Buying A PI Car
There is little known detailed information on the PI business.
Recently have done some homework and will share with all of you the objective facts.
Of course some chaps wont like this post, but it's all about transparency and sharing what I have found in the process of due diligence while considering selecting the next purchase.
As long as you know the truthful facts and what they imply - then the potential buyer can make his/her own informed decision on the purchase you are free to spend you hard earned money on PI or AD car as you so wish.
This does not have to apply to VW/Audi, even a PI porsche/BMW is subject to the same principals for most german cars:
PI cars come with factory warranty?
- Yes they come with factory warranty provided both the following conditions are met:
(1) the PDI (predelivery inspection) is done by an authorised dealer
(2) the service schedule is diligently adhered to and the service booklet stamped by an Authorized service center.
- With regards to PDI, some official brands in SGP refuse to PDI the cars at all for the PIs. Hence you will see high end PI sports cars (some 911s!) getting the PDI stamp in funny places like perhaps india! strange but true.
- Why is the PDI important: this make sure that during the transit and delivery from the factory, the car arrives at the customer in a standard that is fit for purchase by the customer. this does not mean just a wash and polish and stripping off the paint protector plastic. For complex german cars the factory will disable most things in the car and place the car in a "transport mode" - to exit this mode you will need a factory diagnostic tool to enable this change.....you dont simply drive on-and-off the car on a Ro-ro transporter ship....its much more complex than this!
PDI is not clear, now i need the service stamps
- Even if the PDI is cleared by an authorized dealer now you must collect the service stamps. Most PIs tell you that they have tie ups and you can service you car at ABC & XYZ workshop and get the service book stamped. Obviously none of these are authorized service centers....therefore the stamp is not valid in any sense when presented to the factory for claims.
I learnt from the representatives of the brands that this is a must because only the authorized service center is equipped with the tools and knowhow and prior training to work on the vehicle. There are specialized diagnostic computers and software. there are specific 'guided fault finding' protocols, specific repair instructions and manuals. Germans are tight ass engineers - every screw has a torque rating assiged to it and the factory will provide all this info and knowhow to the authorized agent.
If the car was cared for by the proper people, then the factory will be in a position to honor the warranty.
Was offered all manner of things including up to 5 years warranty from some chap. When I asked if their appointed service center had the knowhow and the proper computers for the diagnostics + electronic repair manuals - the silence was golden!
So now you have the proper PDI & service and your gearbox breaks
Yes you can claim....but you have to fork out the amount upfront first usually.
Here's how it works with an Authorized dealer car:
- you blow up the 30 grand double clutch gearbox
- car under warranty and properly serviced.
- in general, AD will change you gearbox and deal with the factory, the bulk of the claim is transparent to you. even if the factory says no full claim refund the AD will shut up and wont ask you to pay for the difference would they?
Here's how it works with the PI car:
- blow up the gearbox
- parts will be sourced from the AD cos the PI will ultimately go to them for all these big issues.
- you pay upfront say $30k cash and wait for the gearbox
- then your damage gets assesed, and let say the factory says they will only pay you back $20k. you are 10K out of pocket immediately.
- some of the PIs might offer to top up this difference, some not at all, some avoid this topic of conversation
- the process is much more difficult and not transparent to you et cetera.
a good example is the M3 from a PI. at least PLM still touch it.
try bringing a PI 911 to stuggart and you will get a even stiffer answer.
Is my PI car brand new?
Yes - according to the PI.
NO. according to the factory and here is why exactly:
The PI will take the car from another country, in the bulk of the cases the car will have to be registered in that country of origin - *this is when the factory warranty starts*. Then the PI imports it and it sits in the showroom locally for say 6 mths. you lose 6 mths from the date registered with the factory.
Of course some of the PIs give great service and will still somehow find a way to honor the promised warranty for a given period. this may be performed outside the knowledge of the factory and at the PIs expense.
*PI will always tell you that the car is brand new and never registered.
Well i have done some detective work and can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that (almost all) cars are indeed registered in another country before importing to SGP and there is a paper trail to prove it.
*please note that this discussion will not entail a car known as a used import. dont even bother with these. when you find out that your OMV is rock bottom low on these classes of PI cars you wont buy them*
The only time the car is indeed really not registered is when the PI group themselves are the official Dealer of that particular car in the foreign country.
PI cars may not be specific for SGP Tropical Climate.
Most of your german autobahn stormers are sourced from europe.
they are very likely not topicalized for this region.
there are subtle differences for the cars in terms of cooling like additional radiators etc. also there are different states of tuning also for the high performance cars for a hotter climate. when we go into diesel in the future the tuning too will be different for European Diesel vs Diesel meant for countries that have higher sulphur contents et cetera.
Let say you have a non tropicalised "bi-turbo tricked out GT bahn stormer cruise missile". Of course if the dammed thing then has an overheating problem here being imported from Europe - the AD sure as hell aint gonna help you. you can see how much trouble this might escalate into.
just ask an owner of a certain xxx DTM that is PI. its a 1millon dollar paperweight!
PI cars have lower resale
just ask any PI porsche owner or BMW owner what the market sentiment is like for their cars
there are more things that i can ramble on about but I will stop here:
In Summary:
when you distill every debated point down one singularity, you have only one issue to deal with when considering buying a car: - it is not about the outright purchase price. you must see it as a TCO event (Total Cost of Ownership). What is your Total Cost of Ownership?
What can the AD do for you? good will? longtime customer? etc etc
What can the PI offer you in terms of written assurance for the automobile which is probably 2nd most expensive purchase in your life after a house. (unless you are a watch freak
if you are clear and know, then by all means you are free to spend you hard earned dosh at either for various reasons of your own.
lastly please reply sensibly in good forum decorum to this thread befitting of an intellectual discussion. hate to trouble the moderators."
Re: WTS: 335i Coupe DCT
I should have clarify my stand clearly b4 i post. Make peace, don fight. I am PDF forces.... Nonethless trust that it's not to discredit any. Not a dealer here and fyi, both car i own is from PML. Why i say for high end car, it's better to go PI cos i have a fair share of experience while marketing my sale though i stop short of saying my Z4 belong to this league
At one time, i try to sell my Z4, full spec and yes obviously with it's a PML car, to top it off, it came with GPS, not rare but i will say it's ain't common here. Does it command a premium, yes it does, that's one sided thinking, i fall short of saying how naive my thought was. Why, market is flooded with Used Import and PI, inevitably Potential buyer will compare, to buyer, what real is upfront buying cost, after 3 year, PI or PML car, all back to square, when you reach the 3 to 5 year mark, local is cultured to look at paper plus body. An $80K and $60K OMV translate to $10K, not pressing enough to activate the alarm bell. I hate it but it's the realism in the end i decided to hold.
Maybe the upfront saving is alrdy an insurance in PI low selling price.
Eventually, it's relative, as u mentioned it how you wish to spend yr moolah,
but to lost $50K in barely a year is too much for me to swallow, i am constipated.
of course, the above is invalid if one can hold till like minded person like you whom is religious in AD car OR for pple who have enough vit M to burn.
Again, gd luck to yr sale,i never expect my frankness will attract a long list of reply, no offence intended. i rest my case. BUMP for you yet again.
I should have clarify my stand clearly b4 i post. Make peace, don fight. I am PDF forces.... Nonethless trust that it's not to discredit any. Not a dealer here and fyi, both car i own is from PML. Why i say for high end car, it's better to go PI cos i have a fair share of experience while marketing my sale though i stop short of saying my Z4 belong to this league
At one time, i try to sell my Z4, full spec and yes obviously with it's a PML car, to top it off, it came with GPS, not rare but i will say it's ain't common here. Does it command a premium, yes it does, that's one sided thinking, i fall short of saying how naive my thought was. Why, market is flooded with Used Import and PI, inevitably Potential buyer will compare, to buyer, what real is upfront buying cost, after 3 year, PI or PML car, all back to square, when you reach the 3 to 5 year mark, local is cultured to look at paper plus body. An $80K and $60K OMV translate to $10K, not pressing enough to activate the alarm bell. I hate it but it's the realism in the end i decided to hold.
Maybe the upfront saving is alrdy an insurance in PI low selling price.
Eventually, it's relative, as u mentioned it how you wish to spend yr moolah,
but to lost $50K in barely a year is too much for me to swallow, i am constipated.
of course, the above is invalid if one can hold till like minded person like you whom is religious in AD car OR for pple who have enough vit M to burn.
Again, gd luck to yr sale,i never expect my frankness will attract a long list of reply, no offence intended. i rest my case. BUMP for you yet again.
t3012
Active Member
Re: WTS: 335i Coupe DCT
As I mentioned in my post, I read that post in the VAGSG forum. I just cut and paste the whole post. I am not trying to argue or fight with you but I just felt that for me, I would buy from the AD because I totally agree with what was stated in that post. FYI, I don't have lots of vitamin M to burn.......wish I had. Haha
Peace and thanks for the bump.
Hi Turbo,Turbo;444378 said:
As I mentioned in my post, I read that post in the VAGSG forum. I just cut and paste the whole post. I am not trying to argue or fight with you but I just felt that for me, I would buy from the AD because I totally agree with what was stated in that post. FYI, I don't have lots of vitamin M to burn.......wish I had. Haha
Peace and thanks for the bump.
