X3 Audio Set up

[southpaw23]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

This doesn't look like it's been covered but i've been doing some research on the output of our stock headunits, and it appears that for the E90, the stock headunit has built in equalization to optimize the factory speakers. This works well for the factory speakers but when adding aftermarket amps and speakers, the problem here is that the signals going to the after market amp will not be a flat frequency response and as such, could be the cause of the imbalance you're currently facing. This would explain why the stock speakers are sounding better than the aftermarket speakers and amps included, since the HU output was optimized for the factory settings. Hope i'm making sense

I've currently looking into a processor like JL's cleansweep or Rockford's 3.sixty processors that mainly serves the purpose of flattening out the signals from the HU before hitting the amp. This obviously is gonna cost u more money but the way i see it, this'll be a long term investment as it'll can probably be applied to ur future rides as well.

Hope that helps.

 

[relag]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

Stock speakers usually are cheap paper cone speakers require very little power to drive. Hence your integrated HU internal power was able to fully drive your stock speakers at its optimum volume.

When changed to aftermarket speakers and amp, the HU will go thru a high-low converter into the amp (unless the amp accept hi-low direct) to boost up the signal to the amp. This is the point where sound quality actually degrades. The amp then provides the power to the speakers to give you the "raw" sound of the speakers depending on the characteristic of the speakers. Hence in the oldern days, ppl will installed pre-amps to try to mitigate such issue by having option of adjusting the treble, base etc... However most of the time these pre-amps are also not quality stuffs which ended up in further degradtion of the overall sound...

In the modern days, more advance sound processor are used such as Audison Bitone, H701 or Rockford 360 to mitigated the problem. With these dsp, all that we have mentioned earlier can be corrected when properly tuned.

 

[henry2703]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

Thanks...

So how to reduce brightness of the tweets? is there anything we can do about it?

since i need to go back to soundwerks in any case... the left side of the speakers is giving out some vibration sound when it hit the lower pitch...

 

[relag]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

Thanks...

So how to reduce brightness of the tweets? is there anything we can do about it?

since i need to go back to soundwerks in any case... the left side of the speakers is giving out some vibration sound when it hit the lower pitch...

Demand your installer to solve the issue for u since they are the one done up your ICE. A common way to reduce the harshness of the tweeter is to face the tweeter towards each other ie not facing u, it facing parrallel to u. Some even go to the extend of facing the windscreen. Since u are not putting processor n there's no staging n imaging per say, these are a few choices u can do. Another old school way is to install the tweeter at the kick panel. However this setup, u'll feel Tat the sound stage is very low, could even below your chest level... Ideal stage shld be at ear/eye level ideally.

Ask soundwerks to solve for u lah, they're the supposedly the expert.

 

[southpaw23]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

From what i've read, there's only 2 ways to fix the equalization issue. One being to get the HU output back to factory settings, minus the equalization, but that would require someone from PML to do so if I'm not mistaken.

The other alternative is in adding a processors. The difference with the cleansweep versus the other full fledged processors like the Audison Bitone is that the cleansweep will only flatten out the signals coming from the HU and doesn't offer the ability to manipulate and tune individual frequencys like the Bitone. It is also alot cheaper than the Bitone.

I'm not the type to go crazy with my car audio so am happy with just flattening out the signals so that the after market speakers can reach their full potential. This unfortunately is going to be necessary if you intend to fix aftermarket stuff onto your cars since most cars these days come with some form of equalization to optimize or more like conceal the flaws of OEM speakers.

Of course, after you do this, the speaker attributes will play a part as well, in this case as already highlighted by the rest, Rainbows are known to be rather bright. I chose to go with Morels as i prefer warmer sounding speakers, and frankly have no complaints thus far with my Hybrid Ovation IIs.

So to solve your current problem, it'll have to be a 2 prong approach but you should start at the source, because if the inputs to the amp is not right, there's no point tuning it further to try and fix this. What you want is a truely flat frequency response to start out with, which is what most after market HUs strive to provide.

Beyond that point, you can start looking at the further tuning of gains and crossoverpoints and even speaker preferences.

That's my 5 cents...but let me qualify, i'm no expert.

 

[oneHeadlight]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

Morels are coloured....but really good, altho overpriced by the local ah nek.

 

[oneHeadlight]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

Thanks...

So how to reduce brightness of the tweets? is there anything we can do about it?

since i need to go back to soundwerks in any case... the left side of the speakers is giving out some vibration sound when it hit the lower pitch...

positioning. face it off axis.

Equalizer.

all in all, i think the installation has been pretty crap if u are facing so much problems.

 

[southpaw23]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

I got mine for cheap. Found relatively good condition second hand ones from sgsoundsystem

No complaints so far and still lovin it!

Morels are coloured....but really good, altho overpriced by the local ah nek.

 

[oneHeadlight]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

have to disagree with southpaw there. In fact, quite the opposite. Gain settings and crossover point is the first thing you do first.

The processor comes in if you have the basic system installed, whereas he is just on a passive set up with an entry level 4" component set. Its like trying to do a lot of mods on a 4 cylinder.

 

[oneHeadlight]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

I got mine for cheap. Found relatively good condition second hand ones from sgsoundsystem

No complaints so far and still lovin it!

have to be really careful with Morels. Firstly, there are alot of fake ones around. Secondly, the coil kaputs quite easily. But they are one of the bigger OEMs around. I like them. Used to have them.

 

[oneHeadlight]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

oh...there could be another possibility. The line out convertor...or hi-lo convertor as we call it here. Check the output if its adjustable. Sometimes if the v is too high, it does cause problems.

 

[southpaw23]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

have to disagree with southpaw there. In fact, quite the opposite. Gain settings and crossover point is the first thing you do first.

The processor comes in if you have the basic system installed, whereas he is just on a passive set up with an entry level 4" component set. Its like trying to do a lot of mods on a 4 cylinder.

The point i was trying to make was that the factory equalization could be the cause for this imbalance, And i'm not talking about a full fledged processor, the cleansweep is more like an OEM audio interface with automatic digital EQ to negate factory equalization.

 

[southpaw23]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

have to be really careful with Morels. Firstly, there are alot of fake ones around. Secondly, the coil kaputs quite easily. But they are one of the bigger OEMs around. I like them. Used to have them.

Have been using mine for over 2 years now...no issues so far *touch wood*

 

[relag]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

Look like this is the Hottest ICE thread in town man...

 

[pengful]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

Wah lao! You guys are writing essays!

 

[southpaw23]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

Should sticky this thread for all the info it contains...haha

 

[richlee7]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

your ears are not mine, nor anyone else's. 8)

based on your condition of not spending anymore:
take out your tweets. if not better than stock, reposition it:
with your high head room, try off-axis mounted from the roofboard firing downward toward ur groin...
or try watever position... there must be one you like.
else revert to stock.

 

[pengful]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

your ears are not mine, nor anyone else's. 8)

based on your condition of not spending anymore:
take out your tweets. if not better than stock, reposition it:
with your high head room, try off-axis mounted from the roofboard firing downward toward ur groin...
or try watever position... there must be one you like.
else revert to stock.

Fire towards the groin.... that should do it!

 

[richlee7]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

Fire towards the groin.... that should do it!

... err... ... strangely, it seemed to work for one guy on XC90... we were literally experimenting ALL possible speakers, tweets position n directions, cos like henry, we cudn get a satisfactory sound from the 'traditional' speaks locations... think the high head n shoulder room, and 'flat-top' is indeed quite different acoustics from most other cars... after positioning, lup in 701 (exposing my age now... ) ... he finally can smile ...

 

[Soundwerkz]

Re: X3 Audio Set up

Hi Henry and those forumers who are following this thread, I am kelvin from Soundwerkz Autosound. This afternoon, One of my bmw customers highlighted this thread to me.

After reading through the posts, I decided to give a reply on this. It has never be my style to do a online explanation especially on an open forum like BMW-SG, unless for technical advises. As there is a large portion of our bmw customers know us through this forum, I feel that i have to step in to clear up the situation. I am the one setup his sound upgrade.

For verification purpose, Henry is a genuine customer of our workshop. When first time we spoke, you mentioned about your interest to do a basic upgrade and I recommended one of our starter $1500 upgrade package consist of an Audison SRX 4 + Rainbow 2-way component. It includes installation, quality Japan speaker cable and wiring up the pair of original underseat midbass to the Audison SRX 4. In $1500 starter deal, we packaged quality Italy amp like Audison SRX and Germany speaker Rainbow, there is no possible budget room for me to throw in one more of pair underseat woofer. We had sold a lot of this package to BMW-SG forumers, probably if chance allow, you can get do a check with them if i short-changed you. And feedback has alot been very good in terms of value and sound improvement. Athough it a basic upgrade package, I am very sure my guys had input a proper & quality installation on your car.

If you can check with someone who know pre-facelifted X3 well enough, not all 4" mid will be able to fit into the original location without having to cut or fabrication for the fitting. Rainbow speakers are one of them. I remember you mentioned to do it as factory look as possible, even the location of the amplifier. Rest of the suitable speaker choice that can sit into your X3 nicely, costs much more and we don't have them in any package. Tweeters were nicely flushed Off-axis into the corner tweeter mould. As we are aware some speakers like Rainbow, Focal, MBQuart etc. are slightly brighter in the highs, we got our ways to 'tame' them by matching them with warmer amps such as Audison, Steg etc. Actually, We take your starter package seriously as we will be looking forward to your return business.

For sound concern, you are not facing problem with bright highs of the Rainbow. On your speaker's crossovers, I already dropped -2db. To me your current setup has to be even brighter on the highs. Alot of string instruments doesn't have the feel. But you are the owner, so i will set according to your taste. The problem you are facing is that the speakers are singing on one side. This is normal because right side speakers are nearer to you. Just time-Alignment wouldn't solve the issue for you because TA is usually focus on Driver's sitting position, one sided. Besides a sound processor like bitone/alpine701, you will also need a centre channel speaker. Only with these two additional equipment around, you can tune to have a balance sound stage for you & your passenger at the same time. With a sound processor, I have a lot more to tune on the sound, TA, left/right 31-band EQ, crossover setting, Gain leveling etc. But if you are not willing to spend further on getting equipments, not only myself but I am very sure other installers will also not be able help you, irregardless HG, CS or NG. I really can't do much in this starter package as i only have amp gain & amp crossover to play with.

As for some of the forumers who advised changing of tweeters firing direction, it wouldn't help in your case. This only help soften the directional reproduction of the tweeters. Henry's tweeters are already on Off-axis & -2db. Without proper equipments in the system, limitations will be there.

Regards,
Kelvin
SOUNDWERKZ AUTOSOUND