Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

[Shaun]

Hi trackers, our fellow forumers Arthur, Jeremy, Ryan, did good at the recent round. Of about 100 cars:

Jeremy won Fastest Supercar (2:28.858 ) without even running the pure dry stint in the afternoon, driving home after just 6 laps on worn tires in the very light damp. Beat Mclaren, GT2 (driven by MME veteran Shedden who also used to be from this forum), F458, other Gallardos (including Ryan who came in 4th this time 2:30.6 after his car blew expansion tank 1st hotlap in the dry).

Arthur won Fastest Overall and Fastest GTR (2:26.015), with some 110hp, shorter gears, and AWD to put the power down, over the SG Edition, but also weighed down by an extra 300kg.

Great to see more drivers getting out there and actually using sports cars, keeping public roads safer, being big enough to face actually losing fair and square, not just sitting around talking about supposedly having done 400km/h for hours, drifting from Singapore to China, or lapping 2:15 in a stock M3, etc. It's so boring to hear all that sort of talk.

So congrats again, Arthur, Jeremy, and Ryan, for giving it your best shot - datalogged, transponded, known rules, and scrutineering.

 

[Tanzy]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

Yay!

These people are heroes to those of us who do not have the luxury of taking part in amateur motorsports.

 

[Shaun]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

These people are heroes to those of us who do not have the luxury of taking part in amateur motorsports.

Correction:

These people are heroes to those of us who choose not to set aside time to take part in amateur motorsport.

 

[Tanzy]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

Correction:

These people are heroes to those of us who choose not to set aside time to take part in amateur motorsport.

No. Catch 88 problem.
Need to make money to buy Superleg. Making money requires time because time is money.
Result, either insufficient time or insufficient fund.

I will study harder in school when I get reincarnated as hero.

 

[guy013]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

What's a decent timing for a stock e9x M3 around sepang? I'm guessing around 2:40?

 

[Tanzy]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

What's a decent timing for a stock e9x M3 around sepang? I'm guessing around 2:40?

Some say it is 2:33 when the planets and stars are aligned. Ignoring all racing line, it can easily do 2:50, there abouts.

 

[Shaun]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

No. Catch 88 problem.
Need to make money to buy Superleg. Making money requires time because time is money.
Result, either insufficient time or insufficient fund.

No. Re: time, Look around. Lots of people have tons of time for wining and dining, cruiser boulevard drives, supper face stuffing, car launches, b road drives, forum meetups, inane forum chat, other sports, etc. It is always choice.

You can compete in an mx5 and arguably have more fun than in superleg. Or even kart vs mx5. CTR has more competition than one can shake a stick at.

 

[Shaun]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

What's a decent timing for a stock e9x M3 around sepang? I'm guessing around 2:40?

For the DCT model around 38 to 40 like you said

 

[Tanzy]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

No. Re: time, Look around. Lots of people have tons of time for wining and dining, cruiser boulevard drives, supper face stuffing, car launches, b road drives, forum meetups, inane forum chat, other sports, etc. It is always choice.

You can compete in an mx5 and arguably have more fun than in superleg. Or even kart vs mx5. CTR has more competition than one can shake a stick at.

Conflict. I only have parking for one vehicle. CTR and MX5 can't pull chicks.

 

[Shaun]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

You are so deep

 

[Tanzy]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

You are so deep

I strive to not disappoint.

Since somebody mentioned it.
Pulling off 2:40 - 2:45 in a stock DCT M3 is easy. Doesn't take much effort. It is definitely not a time to be aspiring to. I think M3 drivers should aim 2:35 at least.

 

[Shaun]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

Pulling off 2:40 - 2:45 in a stock DCT M3 is easy. Doesn't take much effort. It is definitely not a time to be aspiring to. I think M3 drivers should aim 2:35 at least.

The last guy who actually did 35 with actual proof (0 out of 3 possible forms of proof does not count, have to have at least 1 form), was a good driver and had a few things done to the car which drop weight, speed chassis response, increase braking consistency and power, bump engine power, which altogether I would put at ~2 sec advantage over showroom stock.

Aiming for 2:35 is probably a good tough to reach target that motivates, but I wouldn't say "at least", because that means 34 is within reach too and perhaps 33 possible. I actually think that for a showroom stock M3 (perhaps just with pads, lines, ducts) on stock street tires, 34 and 33 are tremendously difficult to reach. These times are closer to M3 GTS times at around 30 and that's on semis, not a street tire.

When the top couple of stock DCT M3 guys show up at the track regularly enough and at will on a clear lap, or in a properly defined 3 - 5 sector stitch where there is traffic, run 34s and 33s with proof, I will aspire to those times. Until then...

Or can anyone show proof of it?

 

[guy013]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

Wah I think it will take an extremely skilled driver to do 2:35 in an M3.

I would think aiming for 2:39 is a decent target.

 

[Shaun]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

Wah I think it will take an extremely skilled driver to do 2:35 in an M3.

Not really mate. It can be easy or difficult, depending on the state of the car. Have to be very precise with defining a stock car.

Quoting something I wrote elsewhere a long time ago:

1) Stock (as in entirely stock in terms of hardware and setup.. showroom stock as it literally rolled off the showroom floor. Nothing touched at all, nothing verified, not even to 'bring it back to factory specs' eg. applying USDM alignment to JDM model or vice versa, etc. All limiters in place)
2) Stock (as in all stock components, but alignment done sometimes reaching as far as stock hardware allows)
3) Stock as in number 1 or 2 (specific) with pads, lines, fluid, ducts
4) Stock as in number 3, weight removed via stripping or lighter components, but no tweaks for power at all in both hardware and software.

5) Stockish / close to stock / almost stock ( as in number 4 except introducing a whole range of variables from better tires, to intake, exhaust, dampers, brake kits, etc) In fact number 5 has often been stretched to the point of including flashes with lowered switchover, extended redlines, headers, final drive, semislicks, slicks, race fuel, etc. all justified by the attempted discounting of each modification's effect, when in fact they all stack to provide a large advantage over stock as defined in (1). Or that the number of mods is low - this cannot apply because pick just say two.. tires and dampers, set the car up and suddenly you're sitting pretty.

The total spread between (1) and a very conservative (5), is easily 7 seconds. Add weather and track conditions, 8 seconds easy.
Variables will never be eliminated, but enthusiasts can help increase conclusion accuracy by being very specific anytime the word stock (or any variantion of it) is mentioned.

==

And as always, for any class of car, or specific model, if you go around asking about laptimes, you will notice the laptimes generally fall into 2 distinct groups, with just a few samples in between the two groups.

The faster, more amazing of the two groups of laptimes, will never be associated with data, scrutineering at a timed event, or at least a transponder. They are mostly times that are talked anywhere except trackside, an actual race, or at a track event where they can be called out on it. Claim date will usually be very far from date of supposed achievement - anywhere from weeks to years after. With the guys that are always up front, true, and clear about specifics, you can use them as references for the future. It makes interpolation and extrapolation much easier as you add points to the laptime constellation.

The other slower but much more real set of laptimes, will usually be found on actual time sheet with multiple non-associated witnesses of car state, scrutineering, transponding and/or actual complete datalogs. Claim date will usually be very close to actual achieved date, very often within the same hour, or day.

And if you hand time both groups, with or without traffic, the actual laptimes of the slower more realistic set of declared laptimes always end up much closer to their declaration, vs the magic time set. You can pretty much toss the set of magic laptimes into the trash.. it's garbage and will never actually be set as claimed, only talked about to boost ego.

 

[guy013]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

nicely detailed explanation

 

[Shaun]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

As an example, at this round, a certain driver that had gone around before claiming far sub 2:25 to multiple drivers who had prior to that demonstrated consistent true sub 30 times, ended up running about 8-10 seconds slower than his claimed time, in a significantly newer and superior car. Even funnier is that a friend of his at the event, asserted that the times he achieved that day were good, since it was his first time driving Sepang circuit.

So which was it really? First time driving Sepang and previous claim false? Or had he driven Sepang before and clocked a deep sub 25 in an inferior car, just so happening to be unable to come anywhere close to it? What are the odds of an inexplicable 6-7% spread? Any decent driver can repeat within 6% even with light to medium traffic.

 

[Tanzy]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

The last guy who actually did 35 with actual proof (0 out of 3 possible forms of proof does not count, have to have at least 1 form), was a good driver and had a few things done to the car which drop weight, speed chassis response, increase braking consistency and power, bump engine power, which altogether I would put at ~2 sec advantage over showroom stock.

Aiming for 2:35 is probably a good tough to reach target that motivates, but I wouldn't say "at least", because that means 34 is within reach too and perhaps 33 possible. I actually think that for a showroom stock M3 (perhaps just with pads, lines, ducts) on stock street tires, 34 and 33 are tremendously difficult to reach. These times are closer to M3 GTS times at around 30 and that's on semis, not a street tire.

When the top couple of stock DCT M3 guys show up at the track regularly enough and at will on a clear lap, or in a properly defined 3 - 5 sector stitch where there is traffic, run 34s and 33s with proof, I will aspire to those times. Until then...

Or can anyone show proof of it?

Wasn't there a stitched time for M3 at 2:33? I was going by that.

 

[Shaun]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

Wasn't there a stitched time for M3 at 2:33? I was going by that.

Nope, have never seen that for a showroom stock M3 or a showroom stock M3 with pads, lines, fluid. If anyone has that data and is willing to share, I'd like to see it.. even willing to pay for the file subject to live 2 minute initial inspection for authenticity.

 

[Tanzy]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

My bad. 2:34 stitched time.

http://www.bmw-sg.com/forums/714499-post102.html

 

[Shaun]

Re: Zerotohundred TimeToAttack Round 2

More importantly, that is not a stock car. Alfian did not do the following, but instead of guys claiming that their list of part does not really help performance (whilst their rivals claim it does with endless subjective argument unending) and that the car should be considered stock and the laptime a stock car laptime, it sure would be nice for someone, anyone, to actually run a showroom stock car and do a real showroom stock time. Perhaps do just pads, fluid, lines, ducts, just for safety. Everything else should be showroom stock, including alignment.

Then there is a baseline of a stock M3 and the whole community can go from there and if it moves in stages, know quite accurately what each part is worth in time, etc.