Aircooled Porsches....

[SmOcKxY]

...are they worth buying here in Singapore? I've seen some pretty well-looked after ones and some nicely restored...just wondering if they are almost as reliable as the watercooled ones?

I've driven a 911SC before and it was almost a b*tch to drive...everything was heavy...can't imagine driving it everyday...just wondering if the newer ones are also as bad?

How much would one good example command?Something like a 964, 964T, 993, 993TT? I suppose those in immaculate condition ones would be alot more but if you get just an ok one..will parts be a problem?Like new interior parts and stuff? I heard that to overhaul a aircooled engine will be at least $30K upwards?

The one that I really really like is the 930 Turbo..anyone knows how many originals one left?I only know of 1 original one that my fren's dad has and he die die also won't sell..also saw some flatnose around..those are not original right?

Service and support other than Stuttgart I only know of Andy and he is always too damn busy..haha! Anyone else in Singapore has a good pair of hands for the aircooled Porsches?

 

[Mockngbrd]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

something i always dream about as well.... 993s are still one of the best looking 911s to me
but the 930s are nice too

 

[Shirlene Fan]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

You mean "Andrew"? Forgive him...yes he is a busy man.

 

[centurion]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

man, I've a feeling this little room here would fast become the biggest P-forum in SG.

anyway, I looked at all the question and I felt a blank, I keep reading about all these aircooled P-cars and the info just doesn't get into my brain. I guess I'm not really a P-man, just an opportunist. Really no desire for the aircooled cars, which raise so much satisfaction among the owners.

Reliability wise, though, among several friends, seems that the first watercooled P-car 996 has so many many more issues than the 964, 993. But again, most of my friends almost replace every damn thing in their modded 964 and 993 that their engines are almost perpetually almost rebuilt or rebuilding so with that, what problems can there be? But positively the 997 and 987 are utterly much more reliable than the 996 though.

 

[hackzi]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

Whether they are reliable will very much depend on maintenance. Things like regular oil changes/servicing and good warm up/down practice (especially on the turbos) will go a long way.

No 965s (964 turbos) left in SG I think. 993s still command a premium being last and best of the aircooled, blah blah blah. Forget about the TIPs though but manual 993s are hard to come by. I know of only 2 993TTs (there could be more). 964s (~80k for a good one) are the best value now IMO. 930s (good ones) still command >100k.

Bear in mind that these cars are more than 10-20yrs old now, so be prepared to set aside some money for repairs and maintenance (e.g. oil leaks, hydraulics, electrical, air-con, etc.). Get a pre-purchase inspection before you commit on any car - a MUST.

But having said the above, they are really a blast to drive IMHO! I miss mine already...

By the way, Andy has a '84 930 - can be rebuilt to your specs. >400bhp easily done with EFI, 1-bar boost, k27hf turbo, I/C, exhaust, etc.

Other than Stuttgart, Andy's the man for aircooled porkers. I bought and just sold my old 911S through him.

Last but not least, check out Rennlist or Pelicanparts. Lots of good info there that will help in your decision. Hope this helps.

 

[SmOcKxY]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

Yup..love the 993s...however being relative "new" i think they still command a very high price...maybe a 964 would be more viable...however alot of the older Porsches I've seen are not "original"...some of them have been facelifted to a newer model...like 911SC to 964..964 to 993..like I said..some of the flatnose I've seen are also not original I think.

I'd prefer an aircooled over an aircooled porsche any day...unless it's more special models like GT3 or turbos..heh heh!

 

[SmOcKxY]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

You mean "Andrew"? Forgive him...yes he is a busy man.

Er..I mean Andy Tatlow from Flatsix.

 

[hackzi]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

Oh also, the pre-964 911s don't come with power steering (which explains the heavy steering) but once on the move, its a non issue. Also, pre-964 911s use the 915 transmission (vs the G50s found in the later cars) which has its own quirks and really needs getting used to or you'd thought its broken! Ha ha...

 

[SmOcKxY]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

man, I've a feeling this little room here would fast become the biggest P-forum in SG.

anyway, I looked at all the question and I felt a blank, I keep reading about all these aircooled P-cars and the info just doesn't get into my brain. I guess I'm not really a P-man, just an opportunist. Really no desire for the aircooled cars, which raise so much satisfaction among the owners.

Reliability wise, though, among several friends, seems that the first watercooled P-car 996 has so many many more issues than the 964, 993. But again, most of my friends almost replace every damn thing in their modded 964 and 993 that their engines are almost perpetually almost rebuilt or rebuilding so with that, what problems can there be? But positively the 997 and 987 are utterly much more reliable than the 996 though.

I've always loved how the older Porsches look and sound..the watercooled one just doesn't do it for me barring the special models I've mentioned..I'm sorry for saying this but driving a 996 is like driving any sports car from BMW or MB..worse was the one I drive was a Tip..sianz..haha!Then again I suppose they are easier to live with as an everyday car than older ones.

I used to own a classic beetle which shares many traits with the older aircooled porches especially 914s and 911SC..many parts can be fitted on without much modifications..I for one had the original Fuchs rims from a early 911SC on my beetle..heh heh!..that's how I became more familiar with older Porsches and fell in love with them.

 

[SmOcKxY]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

Whether they are reliable will very much depend on maintenance. Things like regular oil changes/servicing and good warm up/down practice (especially on the turbos) will go a long way.

No 965s (964 turbos) left in SG I think. 993s still command a premium being last and best of the aircooled, blah blah blah. Forget about the TIPs though but manual 993s are hard to come by. I know of only 2 993TTs (there could be more). 964s (~80k for a good one) are the best value now IMO. 930s (good ones) still command >100k.

Bear in mind that these cars are more than 10-20yrs old now, so be prepared to set aside some money for repairs and maintenance (e.g. oil leaks, hydraulics, electrical, air-con, etc.). Get a pre-purchase inspection before you commit on any car - a MUST.

But having said the above, they are really a blast to drive IMHO! I miss mine already...

By the way, Andy has a '84 930 - can be rebuilt to your specs. >400bhp easily done with EFI, 1-bar boost, k27hf turbo, I/C, exhaust, etc.

Other than Stuttgart, Andy's the man for aircooled porkers. I bought and just sold my old 911S through him.

Last but not least, check out Rennlist or Pelicanparts. Lots of good info there that will help in your decision. Hope this helps.

Well I guess to find a really good example is hard and even so they won't be cheap..but I dare say that most of the ones that go to Andy are pretty much mechanically sound.

The thing is this..I'm pretty fussy when it comes to older or vintage cars..I'd liked them to be very original..when I had my beetle...the parts I get must be to the exact model year (cept the rims of cos..heh heh!) So the 930 that Andy has is probably not going to be what I want..anyway any idea how much issit going for for stock specs?heh heh!

I don't suppose you drive your 911S everyday? What year was it? Is there a list of cars for sale at Andy's place?

Incidentally I saw a immaculate red 911SC parked in Paya Lebar airbase..and by that I mean everything looks brand new..must have been just restored..left a note asking if the owner wants to sell but didn't get any call back..haha!

 

[SmOcKxY]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

Oh also, the pre-964 911s don't come with power steering (which explains the heavy steering) but once on the move, its a non issue. Also, pre-964 911s use the 915 transmission (vs the G50s found in the later cars) which has its own quirks and really needs getting used to or you'd thought its broken! Ha ha...

I was told that the ones without power steering...you could change the steering rack to make the steering lighter..correct?

Still..the clutch needs alot of work before it'll move and yes..the 4-speeder is a little handful to engage..not sure if it's the one I drove only or is this an inherent problem..it keeps popping out of 4th gear..in any case..mose of the time I dunno which gear I'm in..haha!

 

[Mockngbrd]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

just wondering, how much does it cost to get a 911SC and run it? i sometimes see a red Speedster when on my way to werk on the ECP. nice car

 

[hackzi]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

When I first got mine, I drove it everyday to and from work. Initially, I had problems with getting used to the heavy steering, brakes, and 915 box but after a week or so, I was loving it!

My 911S was a middle-year 911 - a '75 911S 2.7L to be exact. Belongs in the same era as the famed '73 2.7RS. Like many older 911s, it has been facelifted to a 964 look and with many updated parts. Fully rebuilt engine (done less than 8000km when I sold it), trans, electrical, blah blah blah...

As for the 930, better for you to call Andy. I'm sure he'll be able to do it up to a stock 930 spec if that's what you desire. "Everything is possible with this car" - as Andy would say.

 

[SmOcKxY]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

just wondering, how much does it cost to get a 911SC and run it? i sometimes see a red Speedster when on my way to werk on the ECP. nice car

Cost of the car itself should be around 50K-70K depending on condition and how many years left on COE..running it ain't cheap...roadtax should be around 5K..insurance if it's there's no loan you can just take 3rd party without fire and theft but it's more advisable to la..haha! No way there can be any comprehensive cover..insurance will be around 3K but that's subjective due to driver qualifications.

If the carb is not tuned well this car can be quite a drinker...much more than my STi!the good thing is can pump 92RON...cos I think back in 80s dun have 95 or 98 RON petrol lor..haha!

Damn...just realise it's cheaper to put my STi on the road every year than an old porker..haha!:angry:

Seen that red speedster in the east quite a few times as well..when he pulls the car sounds like a million dollars!

 

[hackzi]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

I was told that the ones without power steering...you could change the steering rack to make the steering lighter..correct?

Still..the clutch needs alot of work before it'll move and yes..the 4-speeder is a little handful to engage..not sure if it's the one I drove only or is this an inherent problem..it keeps popping out of 4th gear..in any case..mose of the time I dunno which gear I'm in..haha!

Yup, that's the character of the 915 trans. Not knowing which gear you're in, needs a slight pause when shifting from 1st to 2nd, difficulty getting into 1st gear sometimes,.... all just need getting used to and knowing the "tricks". Mine was a 5-speeder.

There are some who fitted power steering onto their non-power steering 911s.

A 911SC in good condition should be in the range of 60k-70k I believe. The 911SC 3.0L engine is known to be very reliable. I'd say set aside some money (~5k) a year for just in case maintenance/repair work (although mine cost me nothing since I bought and sold it). Road tax is quite a bit to pay though. As for insurance, I was paying 1.6K per year for 3rd party only, 55% NCD with AXA.

 

[hackzi]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

The 911 3.2 Speedsters are nice but they are really fair weather cars only. Their tops are known to leak and Porsche actually states this clearly in the owners manual!

 

[SmOcKxY]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

When I first got mine, I drove it everyday to and from work. Initially, I had problems with getting used to the heavy steering, brakes, and 915 box but after a week or so, I was loving it!

My 911S was a middle-year 911 - a '75 911S 2.7L to be exact. Belongs in the same era as the famed '73 2.7RS. Like many older 911s, it has been facelifted to a 964 look and with many updated parts. Fully rebuilt engine (done less than 8000km when I sold it), trans, electrical, blah blah blah...

As for the 930, better for you to call Andy. I'm sure he'll be able to do it up to a stock 930 spec if that's what you desire. "Everything is possible with this car" - as Andy would say.

Ah yes..the 2.7RS...sweet..*stop dreaming*

Would you mind revealing how much you sold yours away? Did you buy the car already done up by the previous owner or you were the one who did the restoration/upgrades?

I dun think I'll be able to afford the 930 la...it should still command a price tag of at least $110K onwards..same goes for 993 with them costing on the higher side of $100K..which costs the same as my STi man..I can convince myself but how to tell my fiancee that i wanna send $100K on a 20y/o car?haha!

I'm thinking I do not wanna spend more than $80K if I do get an aircooled porker...at least I can say it's passion!haha! So I guess my best bet will be the 964s..I do remember seeing a dark blue 964 Turbo sometime back and it was the original..ang moh owner staying near orchard..wonder if it's still around.

 

[hackzi]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

Bought mine from Andy actually. He was the one who restored/rebuilt it.

Looks like 964s are your best bet! Good luck!

P.S: There was a green 964 C2 Manual for sale recently. I heard that car is in rather good shape.

 

[centurion]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

I've always loved how the older Porsches look and sound..the watercooled one just doesn't do it for me barring the special models I've mentioned..I'm sorry for saying this but driving a 996 is like driving any sports car from BMW or MB..worse was the one I drive was a Tip..sianz..haha!Then again I suppose they are easier to live with as an everyday car than older ones.

I used to own a classic beetle which shares many traits with the older aircooled porches especially 914s and 911SC..many parts can be fitted on without much modifications..I for one had the original Fuchs rims from a early 911SC on my beetle..heh heh!..that's how I became more familiar with older Porsches and fell in love with them.

Fuchs rims

MY GOD! The legendary FUCHS? on a beetle? did you get killed by P-maniacs?

 

[SmOcKxY]

Re: Aircooled Porsches....

Yup, that's the character of the 915 trans. Not knowing which gear you're in, needs a slight pause when shifting from 1st to 2nd, difficulty getting into 1st gear sometimes,.... all just need getting used to and knowing the "tricks". Mine was a 5-speeder.

There are some who fitted power steering onto their non-power steering 911s.

A 911SC in good condition should be in the range of 60k-70k I believe. The 911SC 3.0L engine is known to be very reliable. I'd say set aside some money (~5k) a year for just in case maintenance/repair work (although mine cost me nothing since I bought and sold it). Road tax is quite a bit to pay though. As for insurance, I was paying 1.6K per year for 3rd party only, 55% NCD with AXA.

Oh?There is a 5 speeder for pre 80s 911s? Didn't know that..

Actually I did take a look at the Green 964..ang moh owner if it's the same on we are talking about..yeah it's in a very good condition!