Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

[pingman]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

All of us will be watching too. In fact I would like to see him at this Sunday's meetup.

he wont turn up one lah. but think can go sim lim to find him though...

 

[rodders]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

Michael.....Everyone is inviting you to this Sunday's meetup. PLEASE SHOW UP!!

 

[satinGHOST|r!der]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

he wont turn up one lah. but think can go sim lim to find him though...

Hes a convergent salesman like what someone posted. and he drives a GS300. and if u go to these threads, theres always a lexus brought into the picture so that he can rant abt this and that. and as you can see, i have been neutral in my opinions and thoughts in contrast to MT.


http://forum.carma.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1228928

http://forum.carma.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1228939

http://forum.carma.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1199001 -- this is the thread that got me started.

maybe this can help clear things pingman.

Cheers.

 

[jawzsg]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

...I am NOT calling you murderers. I was only interested in trying to see HOW BMW will solve their marketing-engineering-legislation quandary.

Thankz Michael, we won't call you a piece of shit either.

If you are interested to know "HOW" BMW will solve the issue., they are probably not going to review anything to you. So perhaps you can just quietly sit down for the next 60 years and monitor all the NCAP updates and check for progress, provided you cross the road safely.

 

[zag]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

why you guys wasting time on this chap? he is a troll and that's it.
Don't think he had owned a bimmer at all to be so worked up on trashing it sort of peeing in everybody's pool in carma.sg and here.

Probably it is inferiority complex thing. any thread started is a bait... don't bite it lar!

 

[rex7_vtec]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

Guys, please lets all play nicely.

I understand some of you may have been antagonised by michael's choice of words but please calm down. As far as this forum is concerned, everyone has their freedom of speech (of course in conjuction with forum rules and regulations).

I would strongly recommend that we refrain from personal attacks and insults. If all of you are interested in inviting him to our BMW.SG meetup this Sunday, kindly contact him directly through his email or mobile phone.

Anyone who needs further clarifications please do not hesitate to contact the Admin Team.

Cheers

 

[satinGHOST|r!der]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

Thankz Michael, we won't call you a piece of shit either.

If you are interested to know "HOW" BMW will solve the issue., they are probably not going to review anything to you. So perhaps you can just quietly sit down for the next 60 years and monitor all the NCAP updates and check for progress, provided you cross the road safely.

i realised something from these threads. Theoretical people always ask WHY but practical and real people ask HOW.

 

[michaeltan]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

Drink Driving is not fundamentally illegal, but if you can incure personal liability when driving intoxicated without the capacity to handle safe fast driving sounds good. And it is the way it should be.

Kenntona, by dragging the Carma thread into this thread, while it is OK, the words from the other thread cannot be used in isolation. It must be read as a whole. In that thread, I was strongly advocating objective morality as a basis of law. Under this regime, personal preferences do not make law, one must only make law from the basis of objective morality - in this way, there is freedom, with accountability.

Do not confuse my apparent advocacy for pedestrian safety in my later posts in this thread, with advocacy for legislation. I write this somewhat tersely here as it is more fully covered in the Carma thread.

The poseur test for BMW owners was clearly described. I thought that the willingness to redline the machine at least in low gears in safe circumstances would be a good and clear test for one who craves driver enjoyment, at even a slight lapse of legal obedience. You have a better test to find the poseurs from the real drivers?

you could also phrase the sentence as "Drink driving is not fundamentally illegal, but if you can incure personal liability when driving intoxicated without the capacity to handle safe fast driving." How does that sound? A weaker argument? In fact, when you detest drink driving and support lifting speed limits, to a certain extent you are contradicting yourself. The merits of your arguments diminished as one would question your integrity.

Two, statements like "... people should buy BMWs ONLY for the driving enjoyment they have (thanks to Eggz for clarifying this concept in my mind) and if they buy it for anything else other than driving enjoyment as the top priority, they are POSEURS, and I hate POSEURS more than anything else." served to sweep many BMW drivers into your own peculiar way of generalisation. Doing so repeatedly will only brand yourself as a harbinger of anti-BMW semitics. If you are indeed game for a healthy two-way conversation, you should refrain from using emotionally-charged labels on our fellow forumers.

 

[SL2]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

Thanks for the clarification. You mean to say that at 90km/h, nobody survives, so the question of pedestrian safety ratings is rubbish.

It is NOT rubbish for 2 reasons:

1) One is every bit as probably to hit a pedestrian at 90km/h or 50km/h. So your artificial environment of 90km/h though is a good academic point, is meaningless in this context.

2) It may be to survive a crash at 90km/h, and therefore, the possibility increases logically if you have higher NCAP pedestrian rating. At higher speeds, the rate of death increases exponentially.

A deeper look, it's not only the speed, but it's the momentum and deformation of the car also. There comes the concept of NCAP pedestrian safety rating. And this question of the relationship between speed of impact and pedestrian fatality is politically charged as it is highly relevant to speed limits. Many of the fatality charts end at 90km/h from the government's perspectives, but many allege that government left out data in their studies.

In short, the data I found so far is ambigious, and the principle of higher pedestrian safety rating higher survivalability holds because one can impact at whatever speed, the better chance of survival is always valuable.

References for point (2) in a quick search:

http://usww.com/homepage/starteam/speed.html#s2
For example, the rate of severe injury for people involved in crashes at impact speeds of 21-30 mph is 11.1 - a rate that increases to 27.9 at impact speeds of 31-40 mph and to 54.3 at speeds of 50 mph or more. (The rate is calculated as the number of occupants at a certain impact speed with severe injuries, divided by the total number of occupants in crashes at that impact level times 100.)

Physics of car impact speed
http://www.science.org.au/nova/058/058print.htm

Safety vs. Convenience
http://portlandtransport.com/archives/2006/04/safety_vs_conve.html

Speed Management in Urban Areas
http://www.vti.se/nordic/2-99mapp/299dk1.htm

Speed Limits and Speed-Related Issues
http://www.driveandstayalive.com/articles%20and%20topics/speed/aa-index_speed.htm

Yawn... Just prove to me that you are justified in making all these broad statements by standing infront of either a Honda or a Merc(Not BMW since you insists that it'll kill you) that's travelling at 90km/h. If it hits you and you live to tell me that you have made your point, then I'd agree with you. Otherwise, you can take your whole chunk of bullshit theories and principle and shove it. Period.

 

[satinGHOST|r!der]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

Yawn... Just prove to me that you are justified in making all these broad statements by standing infront of either a Honda or a Merc(Not BMW since you insists that it'll kill you) that's travelling at 90km/h. If it hits you and you live to tell me that you have made your point, then I'd agree with you. Otherwise, you can take your whole chunk of bullshit theories and principle and shove it.

who wants to be the dummy?!

 

[michaeltan]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

***BMW.SG WOULD LIKE TO INVITE MR MICHAEL TAN TO THIS SUNDAY'S MEETUP*** for real life debate on his passionate issues on cars.

Real life talk is better than typing from behind a screen.

It'll be cool. Let me see whether I can actually get away from baby care duties.

 

[michaeltan]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

he wont turn up one lah. but think can go sim lim to find him though...

aiyo, no need lah. you want to see my life story, take a look at baby's blog.

http://jaspertanjp.blogspot.com

I lead a very very open life one. I even post under my own real name leh. The tech community in Hardwarezone meet me almost weekly on Saturdays in SLS basement.

Why everybody think I am hiding behind a screen aaa?

 

[kenntona]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

I'd think his agenda is not simply about the marque, but its owner as well.

"while not discounting the value of BMW-SG, I feel that it's a forum where BMW owners and wannabe-BMW owners go to feel good about themselves. Saying things like: I love my BMW and getting a reply like: Welcome to the club....! But what else does one expect? They just paid PML so much extra to get their ultimate driving machine! (LOL)"

http://forum.carma.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1228939

Sad.

I dun believe in Herbal Life or Nuskin, or some MLM brands, but I dun bash them.

I dun buy some hyped-up branded watches, but I dun bash the buyers or collectors.

I dun appreciate the killing of sharks for their fins, but I dun criticise the diners of such delicacies.

What I do is to learn to appreciate the multi-faceted aspects of life, and of decision making process. You simply cannot fault anyone on such marketing aspects of in these times of consumerism. It's about consumption power versus choices. You can arguably comment on tastes and preferences, but you cannot poison your pen and attack them on their choices of consumption.

I understand some of you may have been antagonised by michael's choice of words but please calm down. As far as this forum is concerned, everyone has their freedom of speech (of course in conjuction with forum rules and regulations).

I would strongly recommend that we refrain from personal attacks and insults. If all of you are interested in inviting him to our BMW.SG meetup this Sunday, kindly contact him directly through his email or mobile phone.

 

[satinGHOST|r!der]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

I'd think his agenda is not simply about the marque, but its owner as well.

"while not discounting the value of BMW-SG, I feel that it's a forum where BMW owners and wannabe-BMW owners go to feel good about themselves. Saying things like: I love my BMW and getting a reply like: Welcome to the club....! But what else does one expect? They just paid PML so much extra to get their ultimate driving machine! (LOL)"

http://forum.carma.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1228939

Sad.

I dun believe in Herbal Life or Nuskin, or some MLM brands, but I dun bash them.

I dun buy some hyped-up branded watches, but I dun bash the buyers or collectors.

I dun appreciate the killing of sharks for their fins, but I dun criticise the diners of such delicacies.

What I do is to learn to appreciate the multi-faceted aspects of life, and of decision making process. You simply cannot fault anyone on such marketing aspects of in these times of consumerism. It's about consumption power versus choices. You can arguably comment on tastes and preferences, but you cannot poison your pen and attack them on their choices of consumption.

ow kentonna! u reckee carma inside out wor.

 

[michaeltan]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

ow kentonna! u reckee carma inside out wor.

it's a nice little forum. More general than this one, though.

 

[rex7_vtec]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

I'd think his agenda is not simply about the marque, but its owner as well.

"while not discounting the value of BMW-SG, I feel that it's a forum where BMW owners and wannabe-BMW owners go to feel good about themselves. Saying things like: I love my BMW and getting a reply like: Welcome to the club....! But what else does one expect? They just paid PML so much extra to get their ultimate driving machine! (LOL)"

http://forum.carma.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1228939

Sad.

I dun believe in Herbal Life or Nuskin, or some MLM brands, but I dun bash them.

I dun buy some hyped-up branded watches, but I dun bash the buyers or collectors.

I dun appreciate the killing of sharks for their fins, but I dun criticise the diners of such delicacies.

What I do is to learn to appreciate the multi-faceted aspects of life, and of decision making process. You simply cannot fault anyone on such marketing aspects of in these times of consumerism. It's about consumption power versus choices. You can arguably comment on tastes and preferences, but you cannot poison your pen and attack them on their choices of consumption.

Wow, ok I didn't know there was a statement like that made........

 

[satinGHOST|r!der]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

it's a nice little forum. More general than this one, though.

its more general because theres hardly anyone on Carma. and besides many people dont understand your lingo so they would rather just dont reply. but not me.

 

[rodders]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

Wow, ok I didn't know there was a statement like that made........

So do you think he's a troll now? Can you see his agenda now?

 

[SL2]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

Wow! To him, we are:

1. Inconsiderate drivers as we bought a BMW without consideration for the safety of pedestrians.
2. Poseurs.
3. Just wanna feel good amongst ourselves.

Hmm.....

 

[michaeltan]

Re: Another BMW marketing-engineering-legislation quandary - Pedestrian Protection

Wow, ok I didn't know there was a statement like that made........

I would today qualify the Carma statements to include a class of `pretty much brand agnostic people' after being in BMW-SG for a couple of months. However, the general thrust of the statement made is still generally true for many posters in BMW-SG. But yet, that statement was an unqualified generalization. It was made a month ago though, and in that time, some seeds were planted in my mind to actually grow to real respect for some posters.