CAD arrests 5 City Harvest Church members

Re: CAD arrests 5 City Harvest Church members

City Harvest Church (CHC) has said it stands by the five members of the church who have been charged with misuse of church funds.

In a statement, Aries Zulkarnain, the executive pastor and a founding member of the church, said that the Commissioner of Charities (COC) has confirmed that Kong Hee, the senior pastor, and Tan Ye Peng, the deputy senior pastor, will continue to preach at the church.

In the same statement, Pastor Bobby Chaw, who is in charge of missions at the church, said that City Harvest had over the last two years taken action to comply with the code of governance set out by the Ministry of Community Development, Youth and Sports (MCYS).

Mr Chaw added that the church was also surprised that COC chose to suspend the five members and three others without prior notice.

The church also stated that the Crossover Project is not about one person's singing career.

It views the project as an outreach effort using Sun Ho's songs and music to engage people and places that "would never otherwise hear the gospel".

Meanwhile, many church members rallied around Pastor Kong Hee and the four senior members who have been charged, saying they will stand by them no matter what.

Others like Brian Liu said that when news broke of the alleged misuse of funds, he was initially shocked, but felt he would wait for legal evidence to make a judgement.

The 30-year-old has been an active member of City Harvest Church for the past 12 years.

He said: "Based on the assumption that the allegations are true, to me after this, if that should be the case, the church should be even more well governed, if anything. Systems would be even stronger. I would even have less of an issue giving to the church in the future."

In an email interview, another member, entrepreneur Elim Chew, said she will continue to give donations to City Harvest as it is an expression of her faith.

Regardless of the inquiry into the church, she feels the church has been dedicated in helping the community for decades and she will continue to support it.

There are netizens who want to know where the S$24 million that was siphoned off from the church has gone, and have called for the church to be more accountable.
 
Re: CAD arrests 5 City Harvest Church members

Anyone remember ex President Clinton? Die die also insist he did not have affair or done anything wrong, he only got ice creamed. This is the type of defence our KH will plead too, it's splitting the hair!
 
Re: CAD arrests 5 City Harvest Church members

Wonder who is she reaching out to?? Ipoh Hor Fun?

XXX;842958 said:
Complaining cold but wear like that... just to "Show Off"
Click to expand...
 
Re: CAD arrests 5 City Harvest Church members

Darth Vader;842859 said:
newspaper said the CHC stands behind kong, that is 30,000 members who are loyal and blind followers.this will sent a chill down the government spine.i am sure now 100% life sentence for this sith lord.
Click to expand...

During LKY era no affirmation , they will banish to van diemen's land...maybe now someone think it's worth a shot to intimate defiantness
 
Re: CAD arrests 5 City Harvest Church members

ac323;842957 said:
....The church also stated that the Crossover Project is not about one person's singing career.

It views the project as an outreach effort using Sun Ho's songs and music to engage people and places that "would never otherwise hear the gospel".....
Click to expand...
WAIT MINUTE! USA and/or Hollywood have people who never heard of e gospel? Christianity (including Prosperity Churches) was established there decades before SG gained Independence.

To engage people and places that "would never otherwise hear the gospel", Sun Ho should be doing it in the remote region of e.g. North Pole, Africa, Puapa New Gunea, Mongolia, etc. WTF is she doing in Beverley having songs like China Wine, pop culture and living high life?

Is he speaking English or I cannot read English?
 
Re: CAD arrests 5 City Harvest Church members

TOC News » Death of A Halo: Of Kong Hee, CHC and Christianity

~ By Samuel Caleb Wee ~
Like many other Singaporeans, I was disappointed when I found out the full extent of the City Harvest Church financial misconduct case. Unlike many other Singaporeans, however, I found out about the details a good two years ago.

I won't go into detail about how I found out about the case, out of respect for the friend who shared it with me. The amount of time I've spend wrestling with my feelings on this issue, however, has given me a perspective I'd like to share, since this is a matter close to my heart.

My relationship with City Harvest Church is a complex one. I started attending the church in 2005, first as a cynical atheist, then gradually, through a process of intellectual and spiritual exploration, as a reluctant believer.

When I finally did come around in 2006, the teenaged me leaped into church involvement enthusiastically, surprising my family and friends. Several heated arguments ensued—at times charged with spite and vitriol. I remember feeling as how I imagine most CHC members must be feeling now: persecuted, misunderstood, disrespected for my choice of religion by people who were all too quick to jump to conclusions about the pastor I was so fiercely loyal to.
Nevertheless I started getting heavily involved in church, participating in church dramas, helping out with the cell group leadership. I gave out of my part-time income to the Building Fund, I tithed regularly while enthusiastically helping to organize evangelistic events for my cell group, obsessing every week about the headcount for the weekend service.

All the while I never really doubted the integrity and sincerity of the church. Pastor Kong, after all, seemed nothing if not authentic: his voice would rise with conviction when he preached, quavering with emotion when he was moved, and his eyes would regularly well up with tears during worship, ostensibly out of passion and pure emotion from God. What a guy, I thought.

Sometime around the end of 2007, though, I decided to end my active involvement in the church for reasons both personal and doctrinal: I had run into a spot of disagreement with my cell group leader and anyway I was starting to become increasingly uneasy with the principles espoused by the church. Nevertheless, I still believed that the management were sincere, though perhaps sincerely misguided.

Over the next three years I would find the church harder to shake than I imagined: people affiliated with the church would pop up in my life in some form or the other and over the next few years I found myself returning to the church for several services.

The straw that finally broke the camel's back came with the Christmas of '09, when I came across a flyer appealing for advertisers to fund the church Christmas drama. The flyer promised a target market of over 50,000 people, even as the church passionately preached to its congregation about the evangelistic need to break a record and expose 50,000 new friends to Christ.

I remember shaking my head with disbelief at how incredibly wrong it felt to me. I left the church for good then, though I still kept in contact with several close friends still attending.

A few months later in early 2010, the news broke that the management was being investigated for financial mismanagement. The response then was similar to now: the general reaction was one of derision and scorn, while CHC members rallied together in a kind of siege mentality, insistently defending their pastor and their church, pointing to all that the church had done for them as proof that there must had been some mistake and that the world didn't understand. It was Romans and Christians all over again, they insisted.

I found out the details a few months later, and kept them to myself until today. I remember feeling—not much at all at first, actually. Hurt was a dominant emotion, after a while. Betrayal was another. Anger—anger clouded my vision for the longest time. Anger at hypocrisy, at deceit, at the exploitation of so many good-hearted people.
After a while the anger faded, replaced by a sort of hardened skepticism. I justified it to myself by separating the church from God—the institution is not the religion, I told myself, and when friends asked about my faith I would jokingly say that I was a fan of the Man, though I wasn't in the fan club. Still, there were moments when my skepticism bordered on cynicism. I had come full-circle, I thought, until then the news exploded all over Facebook today, and I realised that the anger was long gone. Instead all I had was sadness.

Sadness at the same old thing all over again: the derision from the general public. The defensiveness and embarrassed silence from some Christians. The disgust from others, the sneer. You are not part of us, they said. We are us. You are them. Away from us. Go.

And most painful for me, from the CHC members I knew, just a very raw version of desperation and hurt. Of passionate rallying bordering on pleading: the world doesn't understand, look at what he's given us, look at what he's done, don't you understand, we don't mind that he lied, you can't put a price on this, you can't take this from us. You can't.

And I wanted to shake everybody out of their knee-jerk reactions: the Christians who poured scorn upon the church, the non-Christians making a casual joke out of somebody else's misery, the CHC members in painful denial.
Because it has been this way for too long, really, I think. And it's time to acknowledge the truth.
Listen, please, CHC members: This is not a matter of the world trying to persecute you. There is no devil trying to turn hearts against the church, there is no anti-CHC agenda, there is no media witch hunt out to crucify Kong Hee for crimes he didn't commit.
His crimes were serious: financial fraud, the misuse of donated monies, the appropriation of organizational funds into a personal bank account. This is a simple matter of a man who might have started out with pure intentions but then got greedy and then got scared and tried to hide the matter from the light of day, because he knew that the matter could not stand the light of day.

It's okay to admit that Kong Hee made a mistake. It's painful but important. It doesn't discount that fact that he might have helped many other people, that CHC has helped the poorest of the poor, the handicapped and the mentally retarded and the depressed, yes.

It does not take away from all the good that he did. But the good does not outweigh the mistake either. The mistake exists, and it cannot be ignored or swept under a carpet.

220px-Michelangelo-The_Fall_from_Grace.jpeg

Michelangelo's 'Fall from Grace' 1508-1512

Listen: The man is not the church, and the church is not God. God exists apart from City Harvest Church, and it is possible for City Harvest Church to fall short, just as it is possible for Kong Hee to fall short. All have fallen short. All have fallen.

Forgiveness is present, but before there can be forgiveness there needs to be acceptance and acknowledgement of the mistake. Repeatedly, desperately trumpeting the various good things that Kong Hee has done just makes you look like you're trying to justify his deeds.

Does this mean we, the non-CHC members, have the right to mock, or laugh, or pour scorn upon the church then? Does this mean we have the right to vindictiveness, to snark, to derision?

Only in a version of Christianity, I think, where we are pure and sinless as well, which is no version of Christianity I know, or humanity, for that matter. Yes, perhaps God is a God of justice as well as love, perhaps he is a God of righteousness and fairness as well.

And justice is big and justice is tough, but justice is not what we're thinking of when we draw a line in the sand and call them Them and say we are Us.
We were called to be so much more than this, you know. We were called to be salt. To be light. To bring grace and healing and mercy and forgiveness and love, oh love, love your neighbour as yourself, he said.

All the other Christians too vindictive to stop and find love for the church members who hurt too much to stop and admit the one they loved made a mistake, that this was not excusable, that faith was spilled and broken and a crime was committed.
Perhaps it's okay now that the lowest is here. Perhaps now we see that the good pa
stor wasn't perfect and that he was a sinner too, just like all of us.

Perhaps it's okay to admit we're not perfect to a world in front of which we often pretend to be. Perhaps this is a chance to turn our focus inwards and get our own house in order before we attempt to convert 50,000 non-believers.

Perhaps now we can forgive, and perhaps the death of this halo came at the right time.

The original note can be found on his Facebook page.
Click to expand...
 
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Re: CAD arrests 5 City Harvest Church members

Honestly, even before the trial takes place, they've already been condemned by the propaganda times... yellow river also cannot wash clean.

I don't know which is more detestable - their $50 million con "in the name of god", or the tabloid/lap-dog newspapers.
 
Re: CAD arrests 5 City Harvest Church members

spreading the word of the gospel

Listen me, Geisha!
- Sun - Mi waan see you lek huas all mi girls sep you inna huah
Everybody everybody china wine china wine Mr. china wine do di dutty wine
Everybody china wine everybody china wine Everybody china wine (wohoo, w-ley, w-la)
Mr. china wine do di dutty wine
- Wyclef Jean -
I'll never forget when my plane landed in di jamaica, It was me Tony Matterhorn, Elephant man and the gyal that they call Giesha
She said Chine wine Chine wine Chine wine And I asked her what does it mean She said in china we know do di dutty wine So mash dem a mix it with di china wine
China wine China wine (wohoo) China wine China wine (w-ley) China wine China wine (w-la)
Mix da china wine do di dutty wine
China wine China wine (wohoo) China wine China wine (w-ley) China wine China wine (w-la)
And we'll dance my problems away
- Tony Matterhorn -
When di body ready wine it up In da club on di dance in china it up
Wyclef boss blame and grind it up Cause di way she move shes hard to touch
Never seen something look so fine ah! Right from jamaica straight to China
When the girl dutty wine ah ! And are there that her design yea Hips dont lie its makes ya find out
Wonder if shes from savana she from jamaica, china I would like to find out . Girl
China wine China wine (wohoo) China wine China wine (w-ley)
China wine China wine (w-la) Mix da china wine do di dutty wine [
China wine China wine (wohoo) China wine China wine (w-ley)
China wine China wine (w-la) And we'll dance my problems away
- Sun - Throw on my dancing shoes I've got nothing to lose Tonight i'm gonna hit dem mia like (ready ready fine) In party, wee-ee
- Elephant Man -
Gal make you pon con pine we do wine in clean We a di twin when you back china wine
Everyone you shyan scha you shwayn wyclef jean Jamaican geishan
She make me so chug collide-chug collide-chug collide ten
We dont china wine, make me a sen Dutty, im yute from like a man grim like a sushi in china wine
And from do im widi yudi gudi yudi yu We complete like puff-a-little groups
China wine China wine (wohoo) China wine China wine (w-ley) China wine China wine (w-la) Mix da china wine do di dutty wine
China wine China wine (wohoo) China wine China wine (w-ley) China wine China wine (w-la) And we'll dance my problems away
- Sun -
Dance, dance, oh-whoo (??X5) Na-na-na and well dance my problems away Na-na-na
Mr. china wine do di dutty wine China wine China wine (wohoo) China wine China wine (w-ley) China wine China wine (w-la)
Mr. China wine do di dutty wine
China wine China wine (wohoo) China wine China wine (w-ley) China wine China wine (w-la)
And we'll dance my problems away

Read more: HO YEOW SUN - CHINA WINE LYRICS HO YEOW SUN - CHINA WINE LYRICS
Copied from MetroLyrics.com
 
Re: CAD arrests 5 City Harvest Church members

Okaaaaay.... and that helps to connect a non-Christian to God HOW!?!?!?!
 
Re: CAD arrests 5 City Harvest Church members

I want to sue the producer, writer, choreographer, director, and all involved in that MTV for loss of use!

After watching it I haven't been able to partake in the act of feeding, procreation (as commanded but God) with my wife and productive work. My eyes and ears and senses have been violently assaulted.

Which lauyar want to take up this case?
 
Re: CAD arrests 5 City Harvest Church members

i'm trying to figure out the implicit meanings behind the China Wine term and Geisha characterization.
maybe there is a deep underlying meaning and link that draws inspiration to the Gospel.
but i still cant get the logic of china wine and geisha together. shldnt it be SAKE?
 
BT26;843057 said:
i'm trying to figure out the implicit meanings behind the China Wine term and Geisha characterization.
maybe there is a deep underlying meaning and link that draws inspiration to the Gospel.
but i still cant get the logic of china wine and geisha together. shldnt it be SAKE?
Click to expand...

Her target audiences might be ABC and ABJ in the US..
 
Re: CAD arrests 5 City Harvest Church members

then should reach out to bigger audience mah. india bhangra dancer singing about bandung?
 
BT26;843060 said:
then should reach out to bigger audience mah. india bhangra dancer singing about bandung?
Click to expand...

That would need a bigger budget.. SGD23mil not enough.. Haha
 
Re: CAD arrests 5 City Harvest Church members

can someone please explain what this fella is saying??
i dont know how has this CHC matter is link to any political motives.. omg... this is getting out of hand.







In the name of God, the Most Kind and the Most Compassionate. May this note bring about unity amongst Your creation, and not create misunderstandings that divide us further.



Peace Be Unto You!

[Update: You must read all comments following this note in their entirety to get all clarifications]



I was asking myself as a Muslim should I even give my views about the current case of alleged financial "dishonesty" in a church in Singapore, as it could come across the wrong way to some Christians. But then, I realize this is Singapore, we are in a multi-religious and multi-racial society, and every issue should be discussed openly, and of course, with much sensitivity when it comes to religion. Every Singaporean is our brother or sister, regardless of race or religion. And we should never build walls within our own groups.



When the case first surfaced the last few days, my first reaction was, of course lah... embezzled money again... I was on the social media bandwagon of making jokes at City Harvest Church, especially their pastor. Then, a Facebook Friend wrote on his wall about him being from City Harvest Church, and it was through this church he found God.



Then, we chatted in detail privately, and he told me how his life took a turn for the better because of the pastor, and the church, and he changed from a Catholic church to City Harvest Church. I could understand Christianity pretty well, as I was in Catholic School for 4 years of my teenage life, so Jesus was uttered by the students in that school everyday, we had hymes, and reciting of the daily bread, and the brothers were our teachers. I even sat in for bible studies with some friends, and "debating" theologically, and still remaining as friends till today, even though, I am a Muslim, and my friends are Christians. It was a good school to learn values. In fact, Christian values are no different from Islamic values, and the irony is I was introduced to good values through Christianity, and I found God through Christianity too, even though my belief is that Jesus is a Prophet. Nonetheless, it didn't stop me from watching Passion of Christ, and understand why Christians love Jesus so much. For a God they believed in, who sacrificed himself to take away the sins of mankind, he deserves all the love, and worshipping. Furthemore, my exposure to pious Christians, only showed to me Jesus and Christian teachings make good human beings. In fact, there was a Qur'an I read when I was back in NUS, while at the makeshift prayer room for Muslims on the roof of the department of biological Sciences building, there was a page which was part of the book, but not of Qur'anic content, the translator of the book wrote that Christianity has the best people, but Islam has the best religion. I do agree, but I hope Christians do not get offended, as it just my theological belief. To me Islam made logical sense, but somehow, Christians are better at representing themselves well as good human beings. Look at the amazing work by many Christian organizations around the world. I know some Muslim brothers and sisters won't be happy that I praise Christians only, so i'll also say, Muslims do good work too.



So as I was saying, when my friend talked to me about how City Harvest Church, helped him found his footing in life again, I changed my mind. Yes sure, Sun Ho's MTVs were horrible, and do not represent the Christianity I used to learn from my school, and the people who practise Christianity. But somehow, the idea of going secular and going to USA made sense to me. The culture in USA is as such. Even Mariah Carey, and a few pop artists when they won awards, they would credit Lord Jesus, but that does not mean they are no better than other Christians. But the thing is, the followers gave their full trust to these people to manage their donations, so why should the government control everything? I mean if I give money to anyone and tell them do anything you want with it, because I trust you, why should the government come in, and charge that person with financial dishonesty? From what I understand, CPF works the same way, as the funding in CHC, it gets distributed from one GLC to another, and to some other companies, etc. And then we still do not know how much money we have in GLCs, or how much money Temasek holdings have. So how can we rely on the government to be a check on such charities on their finances, when the government can't even share with us where our money go to when we ask them. I remembered when the late President Ong asked for the figures, he was told it would take hundred of years of calculations to come up with the figure. So...



Now, about the financial dishonesty. I do agree with the letter written by the CHC member Christopher Pang. Why did MCYS/CoC conclude its investigation as such when the courts have not even found them guilty. And then I remembered the Christians/Catholics (to me all people who believe in Jesus are Christians) who lost many years of their lives under the Operation Spectrum (1987) which the government detained and imprisoned many under the guise of communism/marxism movement. And many years later from that event, I read about how these detainees said they were political detainees, with the government fearing that their movement can perhaps overthrow the government, or become mightier than the government?



[Update: there were comments asking me why bring up Operation Spectrum. I brought it up, because the people detained were believed to be Christians/Catholics influenced by Marxism/Communism. Here is something written by Ms Teo Soh Lung, and ex-detainee: 25 Years Since Operation Spectrum ]



Then, it came to me that perhaps, all of us Singaporeans, including Christians and non-Christians, should pause for a while and ask ourselves is this another Operation Spectrum? Do you know the charges thrown at the CHC members who were charged is Conspiracy in Criminal Breach of Trust, which has a maximum sentencing of Life Imprisonment.



I think we should indeed pause for a while, and question, could this be another repeat of Operation Spectrum. CHC is the biggest church in Singapore with many many followers who love the church, and with lots of money. And I also found out the difference is that in its executive committee they do not have any government board, as compared to other megachurches, one which I found out had Capital Land on the board.



I was also reminded of a similar organization, called Mercy Relief which used to be a department of an Islamic organization, Perdaus. It was once such a successful programme ran by the Islamic organization, but the government took over it (and turned it into an independent charitable non-governmental humanitarian organization).



[Note: a reader pointed out a contradiction. According to Mercy Relief website now, Mercy Relief was established as an independent and non-governmental humanitarian charity in 2003. But according to Perdaus Website, Mercy Relief, an international humanitarian organisation, was also once a department of PERDAUS. It was first formed on May 2001 as a humanitarian project by PERDAUS members, as an initiative of the local people servicing global needs. Due to the overwhelming support it received, and rapid growth, PERDAUS decided that it was best for Mercy Relief to be independent, owned and shared by all Singaporeans and those who support the humanitarian cause. Hence in 2003, Mercy Relief was officially launched as an independent charitable non-governmental humanitarian organisation and conferred the Institute of Public Character (IPC) status.] So indeed, it was turned from religious into "independent".



So what I am asking is, we should all take a break, and ask ourselves this question. Do we want to wait another 20 years, just to hear their stories, which we've heard from the detainees of the Operation Spectrum? And then start blaming the government. I think it is up to us, as citizens to question. How come suddenly, we believe everything put across to us in traditional media. Didn't they use the same media to sell the idea that those who were detained in the operation Spectrum and put under ISA, are conspirators?



As a people, we may just save a few lives if indeed they are innocent. Let's not prejudge. We need to consider carefully all evidences. I have advised my friend who is the CHC member, yes indeed they need very good lawyers. And I am glad to hear, they have many good lawyers as their members.



I have never believed everything they put up in media. We shouldn't. We must question. CHC members have my prayers to give them strength, and unity to overcome this. If God decides that indeed they are in the wrong, then they have to face the judgement of the courts, but if they are truly innocent, may God help them.



I would like to include 2 verses, one from the Holy Qur'an and another from the Holy Bible. Some readers (Muslims) have asked me to give references from the Holy Qur'an here, but I thought to be fair, I will just try to write without any Qur'anic verses, as the readers are not all Muslims. So I decided to include two verses, one from the Holy Qur'an and one from the Holy Bible:



“Shall I then seek a Judge other than Allah? When it is He Who has revealed to you the Book fully detailed?”

(Qur'an 6:114)



“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you." Matthew 7:1-2 ESV



God is great.

Let's pray for a better Singapore, a better World.



End Note: For a more balanced reading, you can also read this note written by David King. I am not perfect, never profess to be ALL KNOWING, Only God is. So please do read his rebuttal. Important thing is, all of us need to reflect.David King's Rebuttal to This Note
 
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