COE quota issue
- Thread starter SpyVeilside
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Viper Warrior
Well-Known Member
Re: COE quota issue
Thats why cannot reduce COE ma .. if not salary come from where?
Mockngbrd;525881 said:
Thats why cannot reduce COE ma .. if not salary come from where?
DriveAllDay
Well-Known Member
Re: COE quota issue
Interesting out of the box thinking -- however I think it comes with a few issues:
1. There are about 1 million households in Singapore. Giving even 1 COE per family would mean explosion of car population by a few fold.
2. You assume a static population. With every new household created, new COEs would have to be created. Also you see complications like divorces (Which ex-spouse keep COE? Split COE? Confisticate?), adoptions, etc. It would make administration impossible.
My humble opinion is that the government has been has been patching up outdated/bad policies for too long. So the whole system becomes bloated, overcomplicated, costly, and ineffective.
Problems now:
1. Despite taxes, car population still not controlled
2. Huge economic friction. We literally burn money away whenever we scrap or ship away perfectly good cars simply because of tax benefits. This is huge economic cost to the nation
3. Huge administrative overhead -- just look at the thousands of people on government payroll managing this overbloated tax-machine
4. Non-transparent. Cost of car completely dominated by taxes, making resale price a rocket science affair.
My suggestions:
1. Delink all car taxes, registration fees. So you buy, sell, trade, import/export cars purely based on the intrinsic value.
2. Make COE separate from car, and trade-able in an open market. A COE can be detached from one car and put on another. You can sell a car, keep the COE for next purchase. Similarly, you can buy a partially used COE from another person when you buy another car. There will be a 10-yr yield curve establish in a COE market, much like a bond. This way, there's no COE release through scrapping since they are traded. Government only needs to figure out expiry, which is completely predictable.
3. Scrap the whole ARF/PARF silly nonsense. It was policy when cars didn't last >10yrs. Now they do. The rebate system creates the biggest market distortions leading to unnecessary scrapping and export -- huge waste of resources.
4. Embed/amortise the ARF/PARF registration charges into yearly road tax. You pay only for the years you drive. Say 10% OMV a year.
5. Rethink ERP. Too long to write here. Basically government is given incentive not to fix roads. The worse the traffic, the more money they get by putting ERPs up. Complete conflict of interest.
Let the debate begin...
Solidgold;525787 said:
Interesting out of the box thinking -- however I think it comes with a few issues:
1. There are about 1 million households in Singapore. Giving even 1 COE per family would mean explosion of car population by a few fold.
2. You assume a static population. With every new household created, new COEs would have to be created. Also you see complications like divorces (Which ex-spouse keep COE? Split COE? Confisticate?), adoptions, etc. It would make administration impossible.
My humble opinion is that the government has been has been patching up outdated/bad policies for too long. So the whole system becomes bloated, overcomplicated, costly, and ineffective.
Problems now:
1. Despite taxes, car population still not controlled
2. Huge economic friction. We literally burn money away whenever we scrap or ship away perfectly good cars simply because of tax benefits. This is huge economic cost to the nation
3. Huge administrative overhead -- just look at the thousands of people on government payroll managing this overbloated tax-machine
4. Non-transparent. Cost of car completely dominated by taxes, making resale price a rocket science affair.
My suggestions:
1. Delink all car taxes, registration fees. So you buy, sell, trade, import/export cars purely based on the intrinsic value.
2. Make COE separate from car, and trade-able in an open market. A COE can be detached from one car and put on another. You can sell a car, keep the COE for next purchase. Similarly, you can buy a partially used COE from another person when you buy another car. There will be a 10-yr yield curve establish in a COE market, much like a bond. This way, there's no COE release through scrapping since they are traded. Government only needs to figure out expiry, which is completely predictable.
3. Scrap the whole ARF/PARF silly nonsense. It was policy when cars didn't last >10yrs. Now they do. The rebate system creates the biggest market distortions leading to unnecessary scrapping and export -- huge waste of resources.
4. Embed/amortise the ARF/PARF registration charges into yearly road tax. You pay only for the years you drive. Say 10% OMV a year.
5. Rethink ERP. Too long to write here. Basically government is given incentive not to fix roads. The worse the traffic, the more money they get by putting ERPs up. Complete conflict of interest.
Let the debate begin...
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Re: COE quota issue
restricting 1 COE per family and 2 COE for big family is plain stupid... they should abolish COE altogether...it makes car prices unstable..
one simple method that will sure work..
reduce loan installment to 2-3 years max.... with a minimum downpayment of 25%... its guaranteed to work...
the reason govt not doing it is because:
1.they have to spend more on public transport
2. they dont get big amount of revenue...how to pay the minister and keep lee dynasty growing?
restricting 1 COE per family and 2 COE for big family is plain stupid... they should abolish COE altogether...it makes car prices unstable..
one simple method that will sure work..
reduce loan installment to 2-3 years max.... with a minimum downpayment of 25%... its guaranteed to work...
the reason govt not doing it is because:
1.they have to spend more on public transport
2. they dont get big amount of revenue...how to pay the minister and keep lee dynasty growing?
wt_know
Well-Known Member
Re: COE quota issue
+1 to reduce loan to less than 5 years and minimum downpayment is 30% (50% is better, down 1/2 service loan 1/2)
the current situation of 10% downpayment + 90% loan + maximum 10 years & somemore drive now start installment 12 months later is stupid and spoil the young ! $300 to drive 3-series and $500 to drive 5-series ! whoever comes up with this package is a bloody sucker (vampire !)
+1 to reduce loan to less than 5 years and minimum downpayment is 30% (50% is better, down 1/2 service loan 1/2)
the current situation of 10% downpayment + 90% loan + maximum 10 years & somemore drive now start installment 12 months later is stupid and spoil the young ! $300 to drive 3-series and $500 to drive 5-series ! whoever comes up with this package is a bloody sucker (vampire !)
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Re: COE quota issue
I totally agree with reducing loan terms. Too many young guys (though im not too old myself
) buying cars and having trouble maintaining it. Only a few will consider the annual insurance , road tax, servicing, ad-hoc repairs costing into their purchases when they walk into a car showroom
COE is only a means to earn money for the govt......... there are other methods which does not exploit singaporeans.
wt_know;526291 said:
I totally agree with reducing loan terms. Too many young guys (though im not too old myself
) buying cars and having trouble maintaining it. Only a few will consider the annual insurance , road tax, servicing, ad-hoc repairs costing into their purchases when they walk into a car showroomCOE is only a means to earn money for the govt......... there are other methods which does not exploit singaporeans.
bmwmonster
Well-Known Member
Re: COE quota issue
i also agree that reducing the loan terms will help in a small way. Perhaps you will see alot of old cars around cos freshmen could only afford say a 30k loan paid over 3 yrs max. Which also means we will be seen as a lagged city driving all those old cars.
Anyway, just be happy that we have what we have today. Let the future decides for themselves.
i also agree that reducing the loan terms will help in a small way. Perhaps you will see alot of old cars around cos freshmen could only afford say a 30k loan paid over 3 yrs max. Which also means we will be seen as a lagged city driving all those old cars.
Anyway, just be happy that we have what we have today. Let the future decides for themselves.
Solidgold
Well-Known Member
Re: COE quota issue
Hmmm..great suggestion. The benefit for this scheme is that you need not bid for NEW COE every time you change new cars. So for folks who like to change cars regularly, you can retain your COE and just pay for the new car price. One potential downside is speculation. So whoever with the money (motor trader or individual) can do "bulk" COE buy and then sell them for pure profits. So those who needs a car still have to pay high price from those who are hoarding the COE supplies.
The loan restriction scheme does not directly link to the number of cars you can put on the road. It does make it more difficult to own a car (esp for first time buyer), But you cannot determine how many cars you want to put on the road. When the economy is booming, you will find a sudden increase in car population or influx of foreigners( rich ones) will also cause a surge. A policy is still needed to determine how many cars you want to keep our roads.
Hmmm..great suggestion. The benefit for this scheme is that you need not bid for NEW COE every time you change new cars. So for folks who like to change cars regularly, you can retain your COE and just pay for the new car price. One potential downside is speculation. So whoever with the money (motor trader or individual) can do "bulk" COE buy and then sell them for pure profits. So those who needs a car still have to pay high price from those who are hoarding the COE supplies.
The loan restriction scheme does not directly link to the number of cars you can put on the road. It does make it more difficult to own a car (esp for first time buyer), But you cannot determine how many cars you want to put on the road. When the economy is booming, you will find a sudden increase in car population or influx of foreigners( rich ones) will also cause a surge. A policy is still needed to determine how many cars you want to keep our roads.
Solidgold
Well-Known Member
Re: COE quota issue
Well well..there are more stupid rules today that we are happily living with.
True, as one of the bros have brought up constructively, that S'pore has 1M family and there are just not enough COEs to go round if we allocated 2 COE per family. But remember, who gets all the $$ today for every COE you pay. Whether it is $1 or $100K, it is still a piece of paper that goes to the Garment.
No one else benefits. The allocation by family means it goes to you and me and to all who makes Singapore their homeland. And true, not everyone with the entitlement will go out and buy a car. Some doesn't like to drive. Some lives near their workplace. Some do not have $$ to buy the car. Some don't want to pay for the car maintenance..etc..etc.
Today, the same rule applies for HDB. Your entitlement is ONE. There are some rules for singles too (>35 and buy from open market). Why? Because land is scarce and garment wants to promote home ownership. So if land is scarce, so are the roads. No way we can add more lanes and expressways indefinitely.
Imagine tomorrow you need to bid for HOE (Housing entitlement) to own a HDB. It can range from $1 to $100k and that fluctuate twice monthly. See what happen to property market. It will be chaotic. One person can bid for 2 or more HOE. Everytime you move to a new home, you need a new HOE. That will be something !
Well well..there are more stupid rules today that we are happily living with.
True, as one of the bros have brought up constructively, that S'pore has 1M family and there are just not enough COEs to go round if we allocated 2 COE per family. But remember, who gets all the $$ today for every COE you pay. Whether it is $1 or $100K, it is still a piece of paper that goes to the Garment.
No one else benefits. The allocation by family means it goes to you and me and to all who makes Singapore their homeland. And true, not everyone with the entitlement will go out and buy a car. Some doesn't like to drive. Some lives near their workplace. Some do not have $$ to buy the car. Some don't want to pay for the car maintenance..etc..etc.
Today, the same rule applies for HDB. Your entitlement is ONE. There are some rules for singles too (>35 and buy from open market). Why? Because land is scarce and garment wants to promote home ownership. So if land is scarce, so are the roads. No way we can add more lanes and expressways indefinitely.
Imagine tomorrow you need to bid for HOE (Housing entitlement) to own a HDB. It can range from $1 to $100k and that fluctuate twice monthly. See what happen to property market. It will be chaotic. One person can bid for 2 or more HOE. Everytime you move to a new home, you need a new HOE. That will be something !
DriveAllDay
Well-Known Member
Re: COE quota issue
Good point. Having said that, you can limit the speculation
- You can restrict private car COE sales to individuals only, not companies
- At thousands of dollars each, I doubt anyone has the power to make market. Say there are 100,000 COEs out there. Say to control pricing, you need to absorb 5% - 5,000 COEs. At say 20K a pop, that's $100M. Doubt there are many who can do this.
- COE is a perishable good. It loses 1/120 of its value every month. So trying to hold is a dangerous arbitrage game. Say you are the guy holding that 5,000 COEs. That's almost $1M a month down the tube if you hold... It will make all but the most brave and rich punter cry.
If you de-link all taxes from the car, and you amortise all the taxes instead of capitalising them like you do now, then the loan restrictions sort itself out. You can only borrow against the car body price. That should discourage people who shouldn't buy car from doing so.
Personally I buy car using cash -- effective interest rate (~9%) is just too high.
Solidgold;526346 said:
Good point. Having said that, you can limit the speculation
- You can restrict private car COE sales to individuals only, not companies
- At thousands of dollars each, I doubt anyone has the power to make market. Say there are 100,000 COEs out there. Say to control pricing, you need to absorb 5% - 5,000 COEs. At say 20K a pop, that's $100M. Doubt there are many who can do this.
- COE is a perishable good. It loses 1/120 of its value every month. So trying to hold is a dangerous arbitrage game. Say you are the guy holding that 5,000 COEs. That's almost $1M a month down the tube if you hold... It will make all but the most brave and rich punter cry.
If you de-link all taxes from the car, and you amortise all the taxes instead of capitalising them like you do now, then the loan restrictions sort itself out. You can only borrow against the car body price. That should discourage people who shouldn't buy car from doing so.
Personally I buy car using cash -- effective interest rate (~9%) is just too high.
powersteer
Well-Known Member
Re: COE quota issue
is it a reckless idea to allow vehicle population to grow by 1.5-3% in the 1st place? Have they ensured the PRODUCTIVITY (vehicle handling volume) of LTA's roads grow by the same amount or MORE during the same time? if not, whose fault is that?
and so .. who is paying for the honest mistake this time? tax payers again????
is it a reckless idea to allow vehicle population to grow by 1.5-3% in the 1st place? Have they ensured the PRODUCTIVITY (vehicle handling volume) of LTA's roads grow by the same amount or MORE during the same time? if not, whose fault is that?
and so .. who is paying for the honest mistake this time? tax payers again????
