E92 manual or steptronic?

[centurion]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

Centurion:
Why not M3? Simple reason...$$$ don't justify...Can prob get significant hp gains from ECU reflash and some other minor mods for 335...should be easy as it's TC right?

As mentioned, the 335 and M3 differs from all levels. Power is one of the least different things. The M3 has an e-diff, totally different suspension, and a utterly different engine architecture, almost everything which counts about the car is different, save the look.

 

[sithlord]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

Centurion:

Valid points

 

[fasterthanferrari]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

As mentioned, the 335 and M3 differs from all levels. Power is one of the least different things. The M3 has an e-diff, totally different suspension, and a utterly different engine architecture, almost everything which counts about the car is different, save the look.

Unfortunately, most people only cares about 3 things, the looks, 0-100 times and no. of exhaust pipes sticking out the rear...

I, for one is not going to walk up to an M3 owner and tell him hey you got an e-diff and then have him return a look like I'm some car nut...maybe an M3 owners meetup, then somebody will pretend to know what the car nut is talking about.

 

[kenntona]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

the cayman is lighter, higher revving, nimbler, same suspension everything because I bought the sport pack option. You can rev higher without having the same acceleration. Out of the track, that's a PLUS as it helps keep the license point free. And for most Porsches, consensus among editors (not buyers) is that the non-S is a better drive. I have driven both, and I find the 3.4, to its credit, TOO fast for me out of a track.

But not a 911 for me unless the move the engine in front of the rear axle. I have philosophical issues.

I am NOT at all convinced.

Perhaps the other Porsche owners like benz61, TripleM, or PG7170 can shed some light. The Cayman deserves more merits than a Cayman S and a 911?

Well, I do not have philosophical issues, but budget issue. If possible, I will go for a 360CS, and at this stage, I simply cannot afford that. And the 335 at the current value, is good enough for me. And hopefully not just me alone, so that some consensus is formed, much like within the editors, as you have quoted.

Because I am not good enough for the S, I do not require its power.

In the same way, some 335 owners might justify that they are not good enought for the M? Wow. Hmmm...... Not too convincing as well......

I'm prefering the M3 to the 335 not for the power, but for the involvement. The 335 is halfway between a sports car and a luxobarge, I'd prefer something which made up the mind. While Cayman is similar to the Cayman S save the power level, the 335 is not similar to the M3 at all, the ride, handling, power level, and involvement levels all differ.

While your opinions are mostly qualitative and subjective, I cannot bear to pit the 335 against the M3 in the same way I would not pit the Cayman to the Cayman S. And yes, some car analyst pitted the Cayman to the 135 coupe, so I would reckoned the 335 sits in the same league as well in overall aspects. So many variables to judge the car, but I would dare not compare the 335 against the M3. Strangely, a previous M3 owner opted for the E92 335 instead of the E92 M3.

So I reckoned it is 1:1 score as far as statistics is concerned.

 

[davidtch]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

Unfortunately, most people only cares about 3 things, the looks, 0-100 times and no. of exhaust pipes sticking out the rear...

I, for one is not going to walk up to an M3 owner and tell him hey you got an e-diff and then have him return a look like I'm some car nut...maybe an M3 owners meetup, then somebody will pretend to know what the car nut is talking about.

Good point!!

By d way, does anybody know why M3 has wider front track?

 

[edlms]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

In the same way, some 335 owners might justify that they are not good enought for the M?

just like jack nicholson said - my car makes me want to be a better driver...

cheers

 

[como]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

I am NOT at all convinced.

Perhaps the other Porsche owners like benz61, TripleM, or PG7170 can shed some light. The Cayman deserves more merits than a Cayman S and a 911?

Well, I do not have philosophical issues, but budget issue. If possible, I will go for a 360CS, and at this stage, I simply cannot afford that. And the 335 at the current value, is good enough for me. And hopefully not just me alone, so that some consensus is formed, much like within the editors, as you have quoted.


In the same way, some 335 owners might justify that they are not good enought for the M? Wow. Hmmm...... Not too convincing as well......


While your opinions are mostly qualitative and subjective, I cannot bear to pit the 335 against the M3 in the same way I would not pit the Cayman to the Cayman S. And yes, some car analyst pitted the Cayman to the 135 coupe, so I would reckoned the 335 sits in the same league as well in overall aspects. So many variables to judge the car, but I would dare not compare the 335 against the M3. Strangely, a previous M3 owner opted for the E92 335 instead of the E92 M3.

So I reckoned it is 1:1 score as far as statistics is concerned.

I second Ken on this.....

Centurion, IMO I feel ur comparison is bit tat off but just my 2 cents.....

 

[joseph]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

i guess bottom line is how deep is your pocket,kekeke

 

[kenntona]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

just like jack nicholson said - my car makes me want to be a better driver...

Actually, would it be a tough choice if there is a "345" model?

4.0 V8 twin turbo, will it entice you?

 

[edlms]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

Actually, would it be a tough choice if there is a "345" model?

4.0 V8 twin turbo, will it entice you?

good point. i figured they have not announced the true potential of this engine for fear of pissing off current e92 m3 driver/potential buyers.

but currently the 4.0 V8 twin turbo does "only" 400bhp and it's not tuned to the M level and not NA. plus all the other trappings of suspension, chassis, diff etc...

if that engine is ever put into a 3 or 5 series, and cost cheaper than an equivalent M, then your point is well made.

throwing the same question open - if the current M3 is 3000cc and 350bhp, and the 335 is 306bhp - price difference of, say, 40k. which would it be?

cheers

 

[FiftyFive]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

sithlord,

if ask you must, then not you should.
manuals lead to driver satisfaction, driver satisfaction leads to happiness, happiness leads to the light side...

cheers

Wah.... clap clap clap... manual is

 

[centurion]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

Kenn, whassup? You asked ME why I did not buy the Cayman S. So I answered from my point of view, not at all wanted to convince you. I'm not `selling' you any car, dude.

The threadstarter wanted involvement, otherwise the 335 would have been great. For involvement, the M3 is great.

As for : 'I cannot bear to pit the 335 against the M3 in the same way I would not pit the Cayman to the Cayman S.' I really for the life of me can't understand that sentence. Suffice to say, the 335 is NOT to the M3 the same way as the Cayman is to the Cayman S. The Cayman shares everything with the Cayman S, including the engine block, but the 335 is substantially different from the M3 in every way a petrolhead would hold dear, power being the least of the appreciable differences. It's an M car, dude.

I am NOT at all convinced.

Perhaps the other Porsche owners like benz61, TripleM, or PG7170 can shed some light. The Cayman deserves more merits than a Cayman S and a 911?

Well, I do not have philosophical issues, but budget issue. If possible, I will go for a 360CS, and at this stage, I simply cannot afford that. And the 335 at the current value, is good enough for me. And hopefully not just me alone, so that some consensus is formed, much like within the editors, as you have quoted.


In the same way, some 335 owners might justify that they are not good enought for the M? Wow. Hmmm...... Not too convincing as well......


While your opinions are mostly qualitative and subjective, I cannot bear to pit the 335 against the M3 in the same way I would not pit the Cayman to the Cayman S. And yes, some car analyst pitted the Cayman to the 135 coupe, so I would reckoned the 335 sits in the same league as well in overall aspects. So many variables to judge the car, but I would dare not compare the 335 against the M3. Strangely, a previous M3 owner opted for the E92 335 instead of the E92 M3.

So I reckoned it is 1:1 score as far as statistics is concerned.

 

[Darth Vader]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

e90 m3=333k.
e90 335=208k.(value for money imho)

for 333k i rather buy cayman s.new cayman s now got 315hp.
m3 is better than 335 definitely,but does it warrant 120k more ?
when people ask why dont buy m3 i always say money not enough.
no shame being honest.

 

[centurion]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

for 333k i rather buy cayman s.new cayman s now got 315hp.

that's why I say, to consider the M3, one would have to be lucky enough to be in the position to HAVE TO consider a E92 format car. Once you are free of the burden of a 4 seater, many other things make more sense than an M3.

Sometimes, it is not money no enough, sometimes it is. I can think of a lot of people money enough still buy a 335 simply because it is a much more comfortable car and yet it is a BMW not fuddy duddy like Lexus.

 

[benz61]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

that's why I say, to consider the M3, one would have to be lucky enough to be in the position to HAVE TO consider a E92 format car. Once you are free of the burden of a 4 seater, many other things make more sense than an M3.

Sometimes, it is not money no enough, sometimes it is. I can think of a lot of people money enough still buy a 335 simply because it is a much more comfortable car and yet it is a BMW not fuddy duddy like Lexus.

I think I can share some lights on this issue coming from owning a M3 and a 335 , porsche and ferrari. like what you say Centurion you can compare the Cayman 2.7 to the Cayman S 3.4 basicially they are the same except for the power.Don't mean to be rude there will always a non-S version in porsche for the people who wants to buy the brand and not for the performance so if you want to buy a 911 just for the sake of owning a porsche then you go for the Carrera and not Carrera S !
As for the 335 and the M3 like what you say are 2 totally different car or dna as so to speak. If you are a person that like to go to the track or cruise on high speed on the highway then you go for the M. In that sense there will be no comparsion btw this 2. But if you are doing town driving most of the time then the 335 will be a better choice in fact with all the modds the 335 will probably blow the m3 in town and it is for that reason I bought a 335 instead of the M.Btw , the new m3 does come in 4 doors and I believe that car will be good if not damn good in the new twin clutch format.

 

[bleachberu]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

Not to fan any fires here but for the 333k price point of the new M3, I think the GTR offers far better value except perhaps the marque & image issues for some people.

I have never driven the new M3 so I can't say the following with certainty...it seems from various mags...the new M3 isn't as involving as the E46 M3 and it is overpriced?

Just my thoughts,
B

 

[centurion]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

I think I can share some lights on this issue coming from owning a M3 and a 335 , porsche and ferrari. like what you say Centurion you can compare the Cayman 2.7 to the Cayman S 3.4 basicially they are the same except for the power.Don't mean to be rude there will always a non-S version in porsche for the people who wants to buy the brand and not for the performance so if you want to buy a 911 just for the sake of owning a porsche then you go for the Carrera and not Carrera S !
As for the 335 and the M3 like what you say are 2 totally different car or dna as so to speak. If you are a person that like to go to the track or cruise on high speed on the highway then you go for the M. In that sense there will be no comparsion btw this 2. But if you are doing town driving most of the time then the 335 will be a better choice in fact with all the modds the 335 will probably blow the m3 in town and it is for that reason I bought a 335 instead of the M.Btw , the new m3 does come in 4 doors and I believe that car will be good if not damn good in the new twin clutch format.

nice post, man who has everything

While I bow to your experience owning everything, performance to me has sufficiency around the 170HP/litre mark or so. Agility and handling is next. Anything more than that is not even a nice to have simply because the power overwhelms my ability - I am not your league there. If I wanted power performance my choice would be different - perhaps a 2nd hand E46 M3, or an Evo 9MR, ...

And for the highway, at high speeds, a 335 with Procede and BBK is probably a better choice than the M3, or maybe, an S-class with adaptative suspension. Straightline performance has never ever been difficult to achieve, but highway requires comfort to travel really stupid fast without feeling so.

The crux of the matter is that most of Porsche is no longer about power-style performance. C'mon the GT3's 420HP or so can now be considered on the low side, the GT2 being stupid fast, and there are better faster cars than the Turbo. Porsche today is, I borrow the words of Chris Harris, really like getting an analog watch with complications. It's about old Skool, built in a quality and reliable way using modern tech.

The M3 of today is pretty much such a car too, it's not unfair that they bench it to the 911. I did drive one for a reasonable time period, and the car makes me want it. It's not as feelsome as a Carrera2 or Cayman, but it has its own charms.

 

[kenntona]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

The threadstarter wanted involvement, otherwise the 335 would have been great. For involvement, the M3 is great.

And the 911 is less involved than a Cayman, as per your logic? Dun get me wrong, but it appeared to me that you sticked to your car selection (Cayman) strictly on a sense of blind loyalty, oblivious to the merits of Cayman S or 911. The justification was simply a lack of need for so much power. And you advised the thread starter based on his need for the M? Your points were a bit incoherent.....

If anyone could, he should get an M over the 335. Sure. Agree. Different league.

If anyone could, he should get a Cayman S or a 911 over a Cayman. No? Same league but the latter two are not better overall over the Cayman? Or different league? According to you, they are in the same league........

Suffice to say, the 335 is NOT to the M3 the same way as the Cayman is to the Cayman S. The Cayman shares everything with the Cayman S, including the engine block, but the 335 is substantially different from the M3 in every way a petrolhead would hold dear, power being the least of the appreciable differences. It's an M car, dude.

See my point above. Yes, different league. And I would reckoned the 911 to be a different league from the Cayman too. See my point? You should be getting a 911 then.

Sometimes, it is not money no enough, sometimes it is. I can think of a lot of people money enough still buy a 335 simply because it is a much more comfortable car and yet it is a BMW not fuddy duddy like Lexus.

I think the other forumers like Benz61 and Darth Vader have expressed their views on why the 335 is preferred over the M. Not to say that the 335 is a better car, but criteria of selection is so different.

Same reason why you picked a Cayman over a 911.

 

[kenntona]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

While I bow to your experience owning everything, performance to me has sufficiency around the 170HP/litre mark or so. Agility and handling is next. Anything more than that is not even a nice to have simply because the power overwhelms my ability - I am not your league there. If I wanted power performance my choice would be different - perhaps a 2nd hand E46 M3, or an Evo 9MR, ...

I do agree that the E92's handling sucks. In fact, this has been my argument to TripleM for the many track sessions he invited. Handling, oil heating issues.

Say for someone who could only afford a S$250K car. The M, the GTR are both out of reach. What can he get besides a (1) used E46 M3 or a used RS4 (2) a Evo X ? Come on...... what would you reckon as the best buy for that budget?

In the good old E46 days, given the same budget, the common advice will be to get a 330. Best IL6 around. So much more mod-able too.

Now it appeared that the 335 is such a bad choice.

 

[Darth Vader]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

i think it is sad that some people say that 320 or 335 buyers are poseurs.
sometimes the real issue are really that money no enough or perception of value for money.
labelling someone as poseurs(without hard evidence) is like calling someone a bastard just for being born.