E92 manual or steptronic?

[centurion]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

Err ... yes, the 997 C2 is less involving than a Cayman. With at least a hundred kg less, a mid engine configuration. But we're not really talking about Porsches here, let's get back to the threadstarter's requirement for a BMW. I suggested to the threadstarter to get an M not the 335 because he wanted more involvement. The 335, no matter what, is fundamentally built to be a luxocoupe, much less involving than the E92 M3. Please go drive the M3, you'd be amazed.

To be clear, INVOLVEMENT NOT EQUAL TO POWER. Most people think the E30 M3 the best M3 of all, so ...

If one requires high speed highway travel, comfort, why take the M ???? Not today of course! It's manual only! It's not really as comfortable car as the 335. We're not talking about prestiege here, we're talking about hard headed driving characteristics.

At this point the rest of what you posted has been answered. If what you're trying to achieve is to say in a polite and roundabout way that, Mike, you're too poor to buy a S- P-car or a 997, so cut that crap, then I'd answer you that money is irrelevant in my decision for the reasons stated. If you open your mind and go drive some fun cars without prejudice, then you'd know what I mean. You may even end up buying an Evo X. But first, you have to forego lust for the `kick in the back' type of acceleration.

Bro, it really sucks to be in my position, where there is really no car to look forward to except the F430 which I cannot afford at all. Other than that, all the sub-400K cars talked about I have already driven except the GTR and none really hit the spot for me. Of course, I'm talking about me, but if the threadstarter means what he typed in his post, I guess what he really wants is involvement, he wants an engaging drive without sacrificing your backbone and wife as you would with an Elise. And that's what I'm looking for too.

And the 911 is less involved than a Cayman, as per your logic? Dun get me wrong, but it appeared to me that you sticked to your car selection (Cayman) strictly on a sense of blind loyalty, oblivious to the merits of Cayman S or 911. The justification was simply a lack of need for so much power. And you advised the thread starter based on his need for the M? Your points were a bit incoherent.....

If anyone could, he should get an M over the 335. Sure. Agree. Different league.

If anyone could, he should get a Cayman S or a 911 over a Cayman. No? Same league but the latter two are not better overall over the Cayman? Or different league? According to you, they are in the same league........


See my point above. Yes, different league. And I would reckoned the 911 to be a different league from the Cayman too. See my point? You should be getting a 911 then.


I think the other forumers like Benz61 and Darth Vader have expressed their views on why the 335 is preferred over the M. Not to say that the 335 is a better car, but criteria of selection is so different.

Same reason why you picked a Cayman over a 911.

 

[Darth Vader]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

I do agree that the E92's handling sucks. In fact, this has been my argument to TripleM for the many track sessions he invited. Handling, oil heating issues.

Say for someone who could only afford a S$250K car. The M, the GTR are both out of reach. What can he get besides a (1) used E46 M3 or a used RS4 (2) a Evo X ? Come on...... what would you reckon as the best buy for that budget?

In the good old E46 days, given the same budget, the common advice will be to get a 330. Best IL6 around. So much more mod-able too.

Now it appeared that the 335 is such a bad choice.

e92 335 handling sucks ? i dont agree unless comparing to e92 m3.a lot of car mags tested it in the tracks and said the car very trackable even at stock.

you got your money's worth when you bought your 335.no arguments about that,even enuice olsen thinks so.

 

[centurion]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

I do agree that the E92's handling sucks. In fact, this has been my argument to TripleM for the many track sessions he invited. Handling, oil heating issues.

Say for someone who could only afford a S$250K car. The M, the GTR are both out of reach. What can he get besides a (1) used E46 M3 or a used RS4 (2) a Evo X ? Come on...... what would you reckon as the best buy for that budget?

In the good old E46 days, given the same budget, the common advice will be to get a 330. Best IL6 around. So much more mod-able too.

Now it appeared that the 335 is such a bad choice.

The E46 M3 is nice but so hard to find manual trans. Almost majority is the SMG2 ones.

At the risk of sounding like Marie Antoinette's `let them eat cake', it's a stretch to believe that somebody can afford S$250K cannot stretch to S$330K if they REALLY lusted for it. But at S$250K, it'd be the E46 M3, and that's just because the Evo X's 4-cyl engine doesn't have the I6 zzing ... but maybe a new Cayman (if he can take 2 seats and just because there's no 2nd hand) or Z4 Coupe which is really pretty cheap (can't comment on whether M- or 3.0SI Coupe) ...

We're not talking about objective best here, but TS asked for involvement, and the 335 is pretty far down there in the involvement bit. But the 335 is a humoungus engineering achievement in its own right, and it's a great car in its own way, and it never a bad choice if what you're looking for is involvement.

Singapore's affluence has increased. 5 years working earn S$160K liao on the above average ... so today it's pretty different on what cars are the best choice. Moreover the PI has made cars way cheaper and controlled PML's markup. So today is no longer like the old days.
And I sort of think that BMW destroyed it for me, 330 was great but the 335 look like got a lot of baggage in the form of turbo piping fundamentally more unreliable than just an I6 NA. Changed the sound of the car, and the feel also.

 

[TripleM]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

Good point!!

By d way, does anybody know why M3 has wider front track?

Wider track gives u better cornering speed, better stability
All race cars hv wide tracks or shud i say, modified to have wider tracks

 

[T6]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

Aiyo all so confusing. Want involving, good handling and yet dun want it too powerful. I am more greedy than that.

P/s: And DVader, you dun act blur hor. At the rate u modding, matter of time before your car costs as much as an e90 M3 but I still lurp u deep deep coz we have the same ride keke. Yup an e90 335 sedan is definitely bang for buck among the 300bhp cars especially when it does not cost more than an e90 330.

 

[Darth Vader]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

are you a lawyer ?if so you win.really no point arguing with a lawyer.
one sentence countered with a hundred.i surrender.ok my next car will have to be a ferrari based on your arguments.

The E46 M3 is nice but so hard to find manual trans. Almost majority is the SMG2 ones.

At the risk of sounding like Marie Antoinette's `let them eat cake', it's a stretch to believe that somebody can afford S$250K cannot stretch to S$330K if they REALLY lusted for it. But at S$250K, it'd be the E46 M3, and that's just because the Evo X's 4-cyl engine doesn't have the I6 zzing ... but maybe a new Cayman (if he can take 2 seats and just because there's no 2nd hand) or Z4 Coupe which is really pretty cheap (can't comment on whether M- or 3.0SI Coupe) ...

We're not talking about objective best here, but TS asked for involvement, and the 335 is pretty far down there in the involvement bit. But the 335 is a humoungus engineering achievement in its own right, and it's a great car in its own way, and it never a bad choice if what you're looking for is involvement.

Singapore's affluence has increased. 5 years working earn S$160K liao on the above average ... so today it's pretty different on what cars are the best choice. Moreover the PI has made cars way cheaper and controlled PML's markup. So today is no longer like the old days.
And I sort of think that BMW destroyed it for me, 330 was great but the 335 look like got a lot of baggage in the form of turbo piping fundamentally more unreliable than just an I6 NA. Changed the sound of the car, and the feel also.

 

[centurion]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

are you a lawyer ?if so you win.really no point arguing with a lawyer.
one sentence countered with a hundred.i surrender.ok my next car will have to be a ferrari based on your arguments.

LOL everybody play the lawyer card .... lawyer is like EDLMS lah... he is very nice one... my type of farker is troublemaker and advocate ....

 

[edlms]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

LOL everybody play the lawyer card .... lawyer is like EDLMS lah... he is very nice one... my type of farker is troublemaker and advocate ....

OI!!??!! who said i lawyer???
ha ha... no more already... now looking for other ways to make ends meet...

FYI, i think one of the leading car mags COTY some time ago put a small cc car as their COTY over the bigger more powerful more expensive cars... go figure?

cheers

 

[centurion]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

OI!!??!! who said i lawyer???
ha ha... no more already... now looking for other ways to make ends meet...

FYI, i think one of the leading car mags COTY some time ago put a small cc car as their COTY over the bigger more powerful more expensive cars... go figure?

cheers

if you're talking about Fiat 500 being CAR 2007 COTY I think it's a political decision, though I am tempted by the toyota IQ just as a chicken rice run car instead of my bicycle which is getting damn dangerous with everybody trying to run you down.

 

[TripleM]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

Sithlord

I assume that u r more of a fan of a manual tranny than autobox/semi automatic.

I have driven both systems long enough in my life and I can tell you from my experiences..I hv had PreFL E46 318 ( step ), E46M3 SMGII, Z4 ( step ), STi Spec C ( manual ) and now a 997GT3 ( manual )

The most fun with lots of kick n punch is definitely the manual stick gearbox. That is where I learned bout the HT techniques ( first time I learned that in my Spec C and that was 1.5yrs ago only ). It's truly fun especially if u hv a gb that is precise, robust and shortshift in design.

I enjoyed SMGII very much too but I have always questioned the reliability of this type of gearboxes incl Cambiocorsa of Maserati, F1 of Ferrari but still like these nonetheless.

When it comes to autogb with manual select like the BMW steptronic..well, I treat it as an added feature to the set up that allows you to have a little fun but still lacks some kick n sensation imo... Mind you, they are not slow in shifting esp the ZF system used in the current 335. So for street driving, this system works for me n wifey, happy with it and will buy it. It's got paddleshifters too...nice

So for street driving, the steptronic is great. Add one ATF cooler as a protection.

Having said that, once u start taking into considerations on things like:
* wifey or othe family member cant drive manual tranny,
* manual resale value is bad ( not terrible I guess )
* track days ( autobox will auto shift for you if u over rev and wont allow u to downshift if rpm too high , both equally frustrating )
* this is the only car in the family
amongst other things, then purchase decision becomes a bit harder

So prioritize ur needs ( sometimes u hv to forget bout ur wants ) and pursue from there.

Dont be like me, I dunno how to differentiate btwn needs n wants when it comes to cars

Happy hunting
Haha..

 

[hitmee]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

there are different degreee of involement. I find the steptronic 335 pretty involving?.
Do i want a M3? well, i migh tbe tempted to have a cayman S if i have that budget. on the other hand, why not stretch a little bit more, like u say, and get the Maserati GT?

OLL my idol. I go dream now.

 

[Ahbengdriver]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

Wah lao, tis thread so long liao. So OT also.

People asking whether to get steptronic or manual 335. Not asking for opinion on M3, cayman, maserati, ferrari. Or si mi Involvement, Passion, or SMLC.

Sithlord, buy one each - step n manual, drive alternate days. Amen.

 

[sithlord]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

Guys, as the TS, I really didin't expect this turn of events...pai-seh...just to clarify some of my requirements and points to avoid any misunderstanding:

1) I prefer manuals for the involvement i.e. got something to do other than step on accelerator or brakes while driving. With manual, can play with clutch, throttle,etc and satisfaction of getting everything spot-on and exiting the corner with a silly grin on the face. Can't seem to get that sort of feel with steptronic or DSG.

2) Not looking for a track car. I want a relatively agile car with sufficient power for instant overtaking in local traffic conditions. I also like high speed runs up north occasionally. Must have the stability, comfort and power for that.

3)$$$. Can't justify to myself spending another 100-120k more for an M3 as a 335 can pretty much satisfy my needs.

4)Personal opinion(pls don't be offended)...Still 911 or nothing. S for the extra power and the more aggressive rear end.

Peace!

 

[kenntona]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

We're not talking about prestiege here, we're talking about hard headed driving characteristics.

No, you are talking about hard-headed driving characteristics. I am talking what S$250K can buy. If budget is better, I would be driving a 360CS no matter what you say. But I am not rich, hence my decision to get a humbly 335.

If what you're trying to achieve is to say in a polite and roundabout way that, Mike, you're too poor to buy a S- P-car or a 997, so cut that crap, then I'd answer you that money is irrelevant in my decision for the reasons stated. If you open your mind and go drive some fun cars without prejudice, then you'd know what I mean. You may even end up buying an Evo X. But first, you have to forego lust for the `kick in the back' type of acceleration.

Nope, that's not what I am trying to say. Dude, I am trying to pick out your bias and your insistence on the "superiority" of a Cayman over the S-model and the 911. Very strange criteria focusing hard on handling and limit your needs at 170 bhp. But that's you, and perhaps one of the few too. And you shot yourself in the foot assuming that I am the prejudiced one. I have said it again and again, I cannot afford the new M3. And I've stated repeatedly that the M3 is a different league - a higher league, if you catch the gist. So test-driving it will not change my purchase decision. It's not about an open mind - it's about opening the cheque book. You rich, I poor - get it? To you, money is irrelevant - or it seemed that way the manner you advised others - GO GET THE M3 !!! To me, it is very relevant. And perhaps to the threadstarter, whose question is between manual and step, you were assuming he has the budget like you do.

So back to my question - what can I buy for $200K to $250K?

Other than that, all the sub-400K cars talked about I have already driven except the GTR and none really hit the spot for me.

Test driving and buying are two very different things. Perhaps to you, it is the same.

Of course, I'm talking about me, but if the threadstarter means what he typed in his post, I guess what he really wants is involvement, he wants an engaging drive without sacrificing your backbone and wife as you would with an Elise. And that's what I'm looking for too.

I thought the title of the thread is....... never mind.....

you got your money's worth when you bought your 335.no arguments about that,even enuice olsen thinks so.

Hahahahahaha, Eunice Olsen......

 

[Ahbengdriver]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

Guys, as the TS, I really didin't expect this turn of events...pai-seh...just to clarify some of my requirements and points to avoid any misunderstanding:

1) I prefer manuals for the involvement i.e. got something to do other than step on accelerator or brakes while driving. With manual, can play with clutch, throttle,etc and satisfaction of getting everything spot-on and exiting the corner with a silly grin on the face. Can't seem to get that sort of feel with steptronic or DSG.

2) Not looking for a track car. I want a relatively agile car with sufficient power for instant overtaking in local traffic conditions. I also like high speed runs up north occasionally. Must have the stability, comfort and power for that.

3)$$$. Can't justify to myself spending another 100-120k more for an M3 as a 335 can pretty much satisfy my needs.

4)Personal opinion(pls don't be offended)...Still 911 or nothing. S for the extra power and the more aggressive rear end.

Peace!

No worries lah, u ask for car buying opinion normally is like that one. Best is go drive them yourself. Sometime soon I reckon the 335 gang may organise some very informal kopi session. If you want to come by then u can 'sample' the cars yorself and reach a verdict more easily.

 

[Ahbengdriver]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

Just a wild guess. Is CENTURION = MICHAEL TAN ?

 

[sithlord]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

TripleM:

Thanks. This thread has more or less (in a roundabout way) helped me make up my mind! Manual it is!

To hell with resale value! Yes to driver involvement and satisfaction!

 

[kenntona]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

...... it's a stretch to believe that somebody can afford S$250K cannot stretch to S$330K if they REALLY lusted for it.

Really? So, from S$330K then $400K should be easy too???

Go figure out when it comes to watches. Someone who could afford an AP might not necessarily buy a RM. Easier said than done, these sorts of slippery slope argument. Come on, you know the argument is flawed.

And I sort of think that BMW destroyed it for me, 330 was great but the 335 look like got a lot of baggage in the form of turbo piping fundamentally more unreliable than just an I6 NA. Changed the sound of the car, and the feel also.

Which confirmed my suspicion on 335 bashers. It is reckoned as worse to 330. Only time could tell if it is really an "engineering achievement" the way you put it.

1) I prefer manuals for the involvement i.e. got something to do other than step on accelerator or brakes while driving. With manual, can play with clutch, throttle,etc and satisfaction of getting everything spot-on and exiting the corner with a silly grin on the face. Can't seem to get that sort of feel with steptronic or DSG.

2) Not looking for a track car. I want a relatively agile car with sufficient power for instant overtaking in local traffic conditions. I also like high speed runs up north occasionally. Must have the stability, comfort and power for that.

3)$$$. Can't justify to myself spending another 100-120k more for an M3 as a 335 can pretty much satisfy my needs.

We're not talking about objective best here, but TS asked for involvement, and the 335 is pretty far down there in the involvement bit. But the 335 is a humoungus engineering achievement in its own right, and it's a great car in its own way, and it never a bad choice if what you're looking for is involvement.

Sithlord, I understood your question from the start, but I dun think everyone does. Your criteria spelt out the exact limiting factors you, as a buyer, is facing, as with other 335 owners.

Perhaps you might wanna talk to physicist on manual trans.

 

[centurion]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

So back to my question - what can I buy for $200K to $250K?

1) E46 M3 Coupe Manual 2nd hand.
2) Evo X 5-sp manual - take the rest of the money take out the limiter and to pay for track fees for the next 3 years.
3) Z4 Coupe 3.0SI manual new - take the rest of the money go buy the Brembo 4-pot fronts. Need suspension possibly...
4) Z4 M Coupe 2nd hand (manual only) - take the rest of the money go buy the Brembo 4-pot fronts.
5) Stretch a little get 911 C2 @ 280K 2nd hand (yuey selling)

Actually GTR also can buy, but depend on your taste. I dunno yet, have to ride one first...

These are relatively involving lah... nowadays REALLY involving possibly must be Elise class liao since everybody chicken out and have to make their cars pussified. You know how softly sprung the cayman and 997 C2 compared with last time??? LOL go try. Like magic carpet ride, serious! Especially if got PASM (not all have lah)

 

[edlms]

Re: E92 manual or steptronic?

TripleM:

Thanks. This thread has more or less (in a roundabout way) helped me make up my mind! Manual it is!

To hell with resale value! Yes to driver involvement and satisfaction!

ever wonder what my signature means? RCH3P?

cheers