Ge 2011
- Thread starter Red_Bean_Bun
- Start date
Re: Ge 2011
:thinking: .. have to agree with you... the sudden influx of FTs & FWs does have a host of social impact as mentioned by many such as.. loss of job opportunity, wage suppression, strains on the infrastructure etc etc .....
Now such problems and issue first started with the opening of the Floodgate..... many would have agree it's time to shut it down and remanage/re-address the issues.
Who would have thought that by keeping the Floodgate wide open and received another 1 million FTs in the near future could be a solution to the problem it first created?? .... It sounded incredible...... but how would the ordinary folks who need 20 - 30 yrs tied down to a loan and buy a HDB while struggling to start a family knows exactly how this gonna work.
Come on.. do you think he became the world highest paid politician coz he is empty up there??? ... this dude can afford a fully renovated and furnished HDB every single month and still have changes in his pocket OK... PAP level of talent not quite so simple one.......:chinese::chinese::chinese::chinese::chinese::chinese:
marklee;634874 said:
:thinking: .. have to agree with you... the sudden influx of FTs & FWs does have a host of social impact as mentioned by many such as.. loss of job opportunity, wage suppression, strains on the infrastructure etc etc .....
Now such problems and issue first started with the opening of the Floodgate..... many would have agree it's time to shut it down and remanage/re-address the issues.
Who would have thought that by keeping the Floodgate wide open and received another 1 million FTs in the near future could be a solution to the problem it first created?? .... It sounded incredible...... but how would the ordinary folks who need 20 - 30 yrs tied down to a loan and buy a HDB while struggling to start a family knows exactly how this gonna work.
Come on.. do you think he became the world highest paid politician coz he is empty up there??? ... this dude can afford a fully renovated and furnished HDB every single month and still have changes in his pocket OK... PAP level of talent not quite so simple one.......:chinese::chinese::chinese::chinese::chinese::chinese:
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Re: Ge 2011
The opposition might not have the best crop but an advance in votes for them gives confidence to the candidates and a skeptical public who is always wary of the repercussions of being a non-conformist.
By going to the same nice restaurant, sure, one gets the familiar nice taste. But pushing the boundaries and applying a different touch yields those Michelin stars. Over the last few years, the talk was about how rote learning and "herd mentality" teaching failed to cultivate that creative spirit and, in turn, foster a culture akin to factory mass production in schools. IMO, having opposition might well encourage creativity in policy-making and reminds the ruling party not to rest on their laurels (more specifically the glories of the past leaders).
And your vote may bring about THOSE catalytic effects. Likewise, an unwise vote might be detrimental if we were to vote the opp just for the sake of it.
The opposition might not have the best crop but an advance in votes for them gives confidence to the candidates and a skeptical public who is always wary of the repercussions of being a non-conformist.
By going to the same nice restaurant, sure, one gets the familiar nice taste. But pushing the boundaries and applying a different touch yields those Michelin stars. Over the last few years, the talk was about how rote learning and "herd mentality" teaching failed to cultivate that creative spirit and, in turn, foster a culture akin to factory mass production in schools. IMO, having opposition might well encourage creativity in policy-making and reminds the ruling party not to rest on their laurels (more specifically the glories of the past leaders).
And your vote may bring about THOSE catalytic effects. Likewise, an unwise vote might be detrimental if we were to vote the opp just for the sake of it.
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Red_Bean_Bun
Well-Known Member
Re: Ge 2011
To move forward, opening the floodgates are inevitable as mentioned by the MM (Hard Truths) - the USA flourished because of the FTs. But at the same time, we have to expect that integration of the FTs must be raised as a priority. It's just like in any M & A - integration is key.
Just a food for thought - Going by history e.g USA - they imported a bunch of FTs from Africa. Then they had a civil war about them. Today their president is Obama (whom incidentally had an Indonesian childhood).............
To move forward, opening the floodgates are inevitable as mentioned by the MM (Hard Truths) - the USA flourished because of the FTs. But at the same time, we have to expect that integration of the FTs must be raised as a priority. It's just like in any M & A - integration is key.
Just a food for thought - Going by history e.g USA - they imported a bunch of FTs from Africa. Then they had a civil war about them. Today their president is Obama (whom incidentally had an Indonesian childhood).............
jawzsg;634922 said:
Re: Ge 2011
小平同志 got say b4 whether black or white cat, can catch more mouse one is the sibey solid cat..
let them come man, but at least gov should do something to filter out those buay gan ones (now seems a lot...can look around..) and not to certain chen show mao pls la..keke
if pap want all singaporeans to rack up against the rest of the world's talent..do revisit their astronomical salaries against the rest of the world's gov as well as owning up and paying for mistakes they made, like in any private sectors.
reckon there's should be some perks e.g. more house grant be given to singaporeans..then call homeland for song? want all of us become debt slaves like those in USA? btw PAP scare situation worsen and increasing demands from us thats why election so hastily held? haa :ehhh:
小平同志 got say b4 whether black or white cat, can catch more mouse one is the sibey solid cat..
let them come man, but at least gov should do something to filter out those buay gan ones (now seems a lot...can look around..) and not to certain chen show mao pls la..keke
if pap want all singaporeans to rack up against the rest of the world's talent..do revisit their astronomical salaries against the rest of the world's gov as well as owning up and paying for mistakes they made, like in any private sectors.
reckon there's should be some perks e.g. more house grant be given to singaporeans..then call homeland for song? want all of us become debt slaves like those in USA? btw PAP scare situation worsen and increasing demands from us thats why election so hastily held? haa :ehhh:
ktnpl
Well-Known Member
Re: Ge 2011
The large influx of FTs is a huge failure cos it is more quantity than quality especially in the past 5 years. I encountered FTs who provide IT support and they are hopeless! They do not even have a decent knowledge of the software! Although you can employ two foreign IT personnel for the price of a local, the former two are really jia liao bee.
The GDP numbers may be up, but the quality of life is on the decline ... the statistics certainly do not tell the whole story.
The large influx of FTs is a huge failure cos it is more quantity than quality especially in the past 5 years. I encountered FTs who provide IT support and they are hopeless! They do not even have a decent knowledge of the software! Although you can employ two foreign IT personnel for the price of a local, the former two are really jia liao bee.
The GDP numbers may be up, but the quality of life is on the decline ... the statistics certainly do not tell the whole story.
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Re: Ge 2011
... hmmm... how about a joke for a break....
A local, was helping to settle his FT boss into his apartment, who was impressed with the hospitality shown...in order the break the ice further, the FT boss started to converse with the local chap...
FT - "Thanks for all the help, if you don't mind, could you also let me know where's best place to get my grocery around here...?"
Local - "Orh...at the gate you just turn left and walk down about 500m, there's a NTUC there...."
FT - ???? .. "Err.. what's a NTUC??"
Local - "Oh, it's our National Trade Union Congress"
FT - ????? .... "Why would I get grocery from the trade union??... are there no local grocery store?.."
Local - thought hard for a while....."Err... can't think of any around here..."
FT - " Wow.. what happened to them??'
Local - "Oh.. they lost...can't compete with the NTUC lor....?""
FT - " Wow... where I come from, the trade union, doesn't do that, they just gives headache to the bosses in favour of the workers..."
Local - "Boss, you don't have to worry woh.. our trade union not like that... you will be allow to do whatever you want... they won't bother you much...."
FT - "Then what does your trade union do in terms of worker benefits?...."
Local - "Wah... they do alot...you see, as worker, you can pay for a membership and gets rebate when you shop in their supermarket lah... or go book their chalets or holidays resorts lah... ya..also their recreational facilities like Downtown East...also can discount one..."
FT - "Mine O Mine...your trade union's operating like a huge corporation... your government funded it??""
Local - "No lah... all the workers during heyday did that... every month, a small portion is deducted from their salary towards contribution for the union...I used to contribute for a number of years myself..."
FT - "hmmm... then are you a state holder to this entity then?"
Local - "hmmm... I don't think so, we subscribe coz we thought of having some protection to safeguard our job nia... I can't remember when but the trade union pay us back $1 like sort of buy us out just before they venture into supermarket, hospitality and recreational businesses"
FT - " Wow... now I understand why you guys need foreign talent...."
Local - "Huh ???"
... hmmm... how about a joke for a break....A local, was helping to settle his FT boss into his apartment, who was impressed with the hospitality shown...in order the break the ice further, the FT boss started to converse with the local chap...
FT - "Thanks for all the help, if you don't mind, could you also let me know where's best place to get my grocery around here...?"
Local - "Orh...at the gate you just turn left and walk down about 500m, there's a NTUC there...."
FT - ???? .. "Err.. what's a NTUC??"
Local - "Oh, it's our National Trade Union Congress"
FT - ????? .... "Why would I get grocery from the trade union??... are there no local grocery store?.."
Local - thought hard for a while....."Err... can't think of any around here..."
FT - " Wow.. what happened to them??'
Local - "Oh.. they lost...can't compete with the NTUC lor....?""
FT - " Wow... where I come from, the trade union, doesn't do that, they just gives headache to the bosses in favour of the workers..."
Local - "Boss, you don't have to worry woh.. our trade union not like that... you will be allow to do whatever you want... they won't bother you much...."
FT - "Then what does your trade union do in terms of worker benefits?...."
Local - "Wah... they do alot...you see, as worker, you can pay for a membership and gets rebate when you shop in their supermarket lah... or go book their chalets or holidays resorts lah... ya..also their recreational facilities like Downtown East...also can discount one..."
FT - "Mine O Mine...your trade union's operating like a huge corporation... your government funded it??""
Local - "No lah... all the workers during heyday did that... every month, a small portion is deducted from their salary towards contribution for the union...I used to contribute for a number of years myself..."
FT - "hmmm... then are you a state holder to this entity then?"
Local - "hmmm... I don't think so, we subscribe coz we thought of having some protection to safeguard our job nia... I can't remember when but the trade union pay us back $1 like sort of buy us out just before they venture into supermarket, hospitality and recreational businesses"
FT - " Wow... now I understand why you guys need foreign talent...."
Local - "Huh ???"
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Re: Ge 2011
The biggest problem is that these whiners don't see it and they think you are the one whining. They focus on people spending those investments but if you turn around and ask if they are capable of making such monies, you will hear silense and see finger pointing.
That said, I believe the sound from the ground has its roots. We aren't seeing solutions hence the unhappiness.
Let's just say if people are voting opposition because your competition is caught holding a kate spade bag with the victory sign, then I worry for the nation.
If you are voting for capable people, no matter where they sit, you still have some hope. Whether these people are capable or not, we're all our own judges. But you bear your own consequences.
Red_Bean_Bun;633526 said:
The biggest problem is that these whiners don't see it and they think you are the one whining. They focus on people spending those investments but if you turn around and ask if they are capable of making such monies, you will hear silense and see finger pointing.
That said, I believe the sound from the ground has its roots. We aren't seeing solutions hence the unhappiness.
Let's just say if people are voting opposition because your competition is caught holding a kate spade bag with the victory sign, then I worry for the nation.
If you are voting for capable people, no matter where they sit, you still have some hope. Whether these people are capable or not, we're all our own judges. But you bear your own consequences.
Re: Ge 2011
Some places have vast land, have ample natural resources and needed the population to prosper. Civil war started becoz the FTs are slaves while the citizen are the lords way from begining. Even after a history of turmoils to a superpower it is today, you need a green card to get a chance to find a job there on 2nd priority. Citizen privilege is still distintive.
We here as the British Colony, the british are lords, most migrants here then have uprooted from where they originated. As a part of the Federations, the Bumi are the privileged ones... but as a Nation... it's something else....
As a fishing village nation as LKY once said "We started from ground zero..." everyone's blood, sweat and tears becomes the country resources..dispite what is described as poor conditions... the people chip in whatever they could towards nation building...CPF means taking home lesser pay, but the gahmen can turn to no banks at that kind of juncture.. we consented with little protest... NTUC is make up of a portion of every workers' pay as well to become what it is... community chest is likewise. We did voluntary works during off days, clearing up kampongs, making roads and tending and helping people who are more needy than ourselves.... gave 2 to 2.5 years of our youth to take up arms and defend the nation and serve the remaining obligations as reservist stincts........alll in the hope of a better tomorrow for our children and the generation to come.. also no FTs wanna come to suffer during those years.
We have kind of arrived after 30 years and the nation is transformed, rich, safe and completed with good infrastructure. Many did better their lives for a while, some did prosper, the fruits were riped. However in the current context, have we toil to make our children's lives better? or the children of those not within my earlier paragraph? many common folks already finding it tough to think of the possibility to retire at the same time finding job security an ever imposing threat. ... look that the children and imagine them working in an even more competitive market, paying till they grow old to own a pigeon hole while those other children competing here can look forward to earlier retirement and better quality of life when they return to their homeland.....a few FT colleague have left, gone home to landed property stuffed with things that are considered luxury where they are....their children getting a better head start too.
Look at many of the so call past nation builders...working in food court, fast foot center, sleeping or hanging out in the street... many of them are not homeless, just giving space to the children that are still living with them... Go sit out in some of the late nite coffee shops or makan places... see the FTs leaves and the local uncle and aunties starting to report for the graveyard shifts... speak to these ex nation builders... they are the results of leaders earning 8 folds the salaries compared to the superpower nation's leader you mentioned to govern a pea sized piece of land and minute fraction of people comparatively.
Continue with the opened flood gate and some good may still begotten by them... soon their children may become their colleague... happy family...
Red_Bean_Bun;634985 said:
Some places have vast land, have ample natural resources and needed the population to prosper. Civil war started becoz the FTs are slaves while the citizen are the lords way from begining. Even after a history of turmoils to a superpower it is today, you need a green card to get a chance to find a job there on 2nd priority. Citizen privilege is still distintive.
We here as the British Colony, the british are lords, most migrants here then have uprooted from where they originated. As a part of the Federations, the Bumi are the privileged ones... but as a Nation... it's something else....
As a fishing village nation as LKY once said "We started from ground zero..." everyone's blood, sweat and tears becomes the country resources..dispite what is described as poor conditions... the people chip in whatever they could towards nation building...CPF means taking home lesser pay, but the gahmen can turn to no banks at that kind of juncture.. we consented with little protest... NTUC is make up of a portion of every workers' pay as well to become what it is... community chest is likewise. We did voluntary works during off days, clearing up kampongs, making roads and tending and helping people who are more needy than ourselves.... gave 2 to 2.5 years of our youth to take up arms and defend the nation and serve the remaining obligations as reservist stincts........alll in the hope of a better tomorrow for our children and the generation to come.. also no FTs wanna come to suffer during those years.
We have kind of arrived after 30 years and the nation is transformed, rich, safe and completed with good infrastructure. Many did better their lives for a while, some did prosper, the fruits were riped. However in the current context, have we toil to make our children's lives better? or the children of those not within my earlier paragraph? many common folks already finding it tough to think of the possibility to retire at the same time finding job security an ever imposing threat. ... look that the children and imagine them working in an even more competitive market, paying till they grow old to own a pigeon hole while those other children competing here can look forward to earlier retirement and better quality of life when they return to their homeland.....a few FT colleague have left, gone home to landed property stuffed with things that are considered luxury where they are....their children getting a better head start too.
Look at many of the so call past nation builders...working in food court, fast foot center, sleeping or hanging out in the street... many of them are not homeless, just giving space to the children that are still living with them... Go sit out in some of the late nite coffee shops or makan places... see the FTs leaves and the local uncle and aunties starting to report for the graveyard shifts... speak to these ex nation builders... they are the results of leaders earning 8 folds the salaries compared to the superpower nation's leader you mentioned to govern a pea sized piece of land and minute fraction of people comparatively.
Continue with the opened flood gate and some good may still begotten by them... soon their children may become their colleague... happy family...
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Solidgold
Well-Known Member
Re: Ge 2011
+100
Well said.
In 1978, my father paid 17k for a 3-room HDB flat in AMK. Average fresh grade pay was about $700.
Today, 3-room flat is 177k and average fresh grade pay is $2600. You do the Math. I don't think many are worried about this generation. Those with kids are seriously thinking about their kids' future instead. Fighting for a place in Uni, a job, a place to live and at the same time the need to take care of their families and parents/grandparents at a much higher cost. All on the same terms with any FTs that step on the shore. There is no such thing as home ground advantage. Compete to win at all cost because there are no place for losers.
+100
Well said.
In 1978, my father paid 17k for a 3-room HDB flat in AMK. Average fresh grade pay was about $700.
Today, 3-room flat is 177k and average fresh grade pay is $2600. You do the Math. I don't think many are worried about this generation. Those with kids are seriously thinking about their kids' future instead. Fighting for a place in Uni, a job, a place to live and at the same time the need to take care of their families and parents/grandparents at a much higher cost. All on the same terms with any FTs that step on the shore. There is no such thing as home ground advantage. Compete to win at all cost because there are no place for losers.
Re: Ge 2011
There seemed to be an impression imposed on the masses that quality of living is quality of life. Then again, all the cosmopolitan cities are suffering from the same, from Tokyo to HK......
+1,000,000ktnpl said:
There seemed to be an impression imposed on the masses that quality of living is quality of life. Then again, all the cosmopolitan cities are suffering from the same, from Tokyo to HK......
I think the next generation are riding on a bull without understanding what lies ahead. I am seeing younger chaps riding on the previous generation's wealth. Not sure how they are gonna weather any storm. Parents provided so much of a shelter to them they will not be able to rough it out, assuming they do need to one day.Solidgold said:
powersteer
Well-Known Member
Re: Ge 2011
I have no problems with FTs if they are really the talents that we are short of. We hire many FTs and they contributed well to our company.
short of cheating with our FX, there is little we can do about imported inflation. But the problem of crazy inflation (as a result of housing costs .. etc) are pure screw ups by our leaders.
In short: MOM, MND, MOH, MCYS, LTA and our great leaders didnt coordinate properly. w/o proper planning to the supply of stuffs like houses, they opened the floodgate. was it a lack of foresight? or ... is this simply a reactive garment that introduces kneejerk reactions after the oversight?
Solidgold;635139 said:
I have no problems with FTs if they are really the talents that we are short of. We hire many FTs and they contributed well to our company.
short of cheating with our FX, there is little we can do about imported inflation. But the problem of crazy inflation (as a result of housing costs .. etc) are pure screw ups by our leaders.
In short: MOM, MND, MOH, MCYS, LTA and our great leaders didnt coordinate properly. w/o proper planning to the supply of stuffs like houses, they opened the floodgate. was it a lack of foresight? or ... is this simply a reactive garment that introduces kneejerk reactions after the oversight?
Solidgold
Well-Known Member
Re: Ge 2011
Even in sports, like the Euro champion league, there is now a quota of no. of foreign import u can have in a team? Why?
Why prices of property shoot up like no tmr? Is there a limit to the number of private property a foreigner can buy? Does an FT pay a higher price for a property? Try doing that in another country.
Check out the uni today. We keep on complaining that it is so tough to get into Singapore uni. No space. Only As and Bs qualify u a space in the uni. Do a quick check to see how many foreign students we have today. All at yr expense. So why built all these wonderful tertiary centers when our kids have to go to another cty to get a degree. Try selling that to an Aussie or an American that their kids cannot get a place in their local school because space taken up by full fee paying foreigners. It's real hard to tell yr kids that they need to serve their cty, sacrifice their 2yrs and they will get look after.
Even in sports, like the Euro champion league, there is now a quota of no. of foreign import u can have in a team? Why?
Why prices of property shoot up like no tmr? Is there a limit to the number of private property a foreigner can buy? Does an FT pay a higher price for a property? Try doing that in another country.
Check out the uni today. We keep on complaining that it is so tough to get into Singapore uni. No space. Only As and Bs qualify u a space in the uni. Do a quick check to see how many foreign students we have today. All at yr expense. So why built all these wonderful tertiary centers when our kids have to go to another cty to get a degree. Try selling that to an Aussie or an American that their kids cannot get a place in their local school because space taken up by full fee paying foreigners. It's real hard to tell yr kids that they need to serve their cty, sacrifice their 2yrs and they will get look after.
powersteer
Well-Known Member
Re: Ge 2011
hahs, thats something i'm pretty intimate with ... 50% of my classmates were foreigners!
try to ask ard .. wat kinda school fees they had to pay ... and wat kinda subsidies, .... etc they getting
Solidgold;635342 said:
hahs, thats something i'm pretty intimate with ... 50% of my classmates were foreigners!
try to ask ard .. wat kinda school fees they had to pay ... and wat kinda subsidies, .... etc they getting
Red_Bean_Bun
Well-Known Member
Re: Ge 2011
Local students are not hungry enough. Foreigner's results are better - look at the PSLE, 'O' and 'A' levels. The China students are really quite on in their studies.
Set a quota for locals in the Unis here ? That's very bad (like some neighnouring country's policies). Standards would drop ..........
Singaporeans need campaigns. I remembered the old campaigns - courtesy lion to the productivity bee or speak chinese campaigns. Cheesy but it actually got people going in a certain direction. It was trying to introduce good values.
powersteer;635353 said:hahs, thats something i'm pretty intimate with ... 50% of my classmates were foreigners!
try to ask ard .. wat kinda school fees they had to pay ... and wat kinda subsidies, .... etc they getting
Local students are not hungry enough. Foreigner's results are better - look at the PSLE, 'O' and 'A' levels. The China students are really quite on in their studies.
Set a quota for locals in the Unis here ? That's very bad (like some neighnouring country's policies). Standards would drop ..........
Singaporeans need campaigns. I remembered the old campaigns - courtesy lion to the productivity bee or speak chinese campaigns. Cheesy but it actually got people going in a certain direction. It was trying to introduce good values.
