Ge 2011

Re: Ge 2011

jawzsg;636361 said:
I am as confused too... "lean", "mean" and "hungry" are terms coined by mostly marketing company/consultants etc... the main emphasis is the "drive" that they merely wanted to preach, e.g. that desire to succeed, attain or achieve much to any lean mean and hungry animal would instinctively strive for food. It is all well as a motivational concept and all these marketing consultants have to come up with fresh ideas less their services becomes stale-mate.

I am really concerned when people take such motivation concepts too religiously as on the flip side, a lean mean and hungry animal is also a dangerous one too., one that would also resort to canibalism...a no no in our species... inhuman.

We just want to nuture our children into responsible adults and show/guide them towards attaining knowledge which will be necessary to their lives and society in future,.. and we like our local education system to be along the same line, to provide that opportunity for every young citizen.... all in all here, we seek improvement in the system but was sad to discover that our resources are strained by many non-citizen.

Public schools, funded by taxpayer and run by local governement should be for local young citizen as first priority. I am not interested in how good or hungry those others are in comparison to our local children. They can go to a private school and excel there. If we think our local children are not up to par comparatively, then re-look and re-fine our education system and all the more, a place have to be secured for each child to be given that chance to improve.... not to be displaced.

To say that foreign children are brighter than our local ones and therefore deserves the right to displaced them in our local public facilities is not only confusing... it's undoing....

well said.
but does it actually reflects what the garment thinks in all area. that anything can be bought by money??? including politicians, a "smarter" (?) population, sportsmen AND OUR VOTES???

issit more important to develop local sportsmen (not matter how tough or successful) or take the shortcut to IMPORT??? *disgusted!@@*
who feels proud abt our winning ping pong team?? ANYONE?? i feel more proud when our Lions won the Malaysian Cup!
 
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Re: Ge 2011

powersteer;636388 said:
well said.
but does it actually reflects what the garment thinks in all area. that anything can be bought by money??? including politicians, a "smarter" (?) population, sportsmen AND OUR VOTES???

issit more important to develop local sportsmen (not matter how tough or successful) or take the shortcut to IMPORT??? *disgusted!@@*
who feels proud abt our winning ping pong team?? ANYONE?? i feel more proud when our Lions won the Malaysian Cup!

I think you are quite bent on being anti-pap. And you fail to see the big picture or know the limitations and vulnerabilities of a small country like Singapore. Your rationale is ruled by emotions.

With a country the size of 4 million. The likelihood of finding good sportsmen is a lot smaller than a country of a population 400m or 4billion. Your protectionistic and bumi ideas will not go far being that the world is now more connected than ever. Talent aquisition knows no bounderies.
 
Re: Ge 2011

ktnpl;636367 said:
I worry for my children because our education system is overemphasising too narrowly on academic results instead of overall development of the child. I was told that a Maths Olympiad winner will be highly sought after by the top schools. Don't other qualities matter? I have encountered a straight "As" student who has poor character. As a parent, I would rather my children have a decent character development anytime over straight "As".

I agree that character comes first. Tan Cheng Yew is a fine example of a smart person but with a bad character.
 
Re: Ge 2011

When our kids go and study in the US or Europe - we are doing the same thing. The smart ones would have an opportunity to compete elsewhere. Singapore has evolved and its educational standards have been raised to a point that students from elsewhere would want to compete for a place here. And they all take the same SAT / GMAT exams.

If our kids (non-elites) get complacent and the educational standards continue to get better - expect that our kids would definitely start to lose their places. So what did Malaysia did - they put in quotas for the bumis. Then the Indians and chinese there started streaming towards Singapore for education because the places are fought for by merit.

Today, which doctor would you consider doing an operation for you - the bumi doctor or one graduated from NUS ?

The elites have no problems competing anywhere in the world but my concern are the non-elites which forms a large majority. How do you motivate them to compete ?
If competing is too stressful then you have to consider leaving Singapore - just like when it was too harsh to survive in China in the 1900s and the fishermen etc started migrating to Nanyang region to survive.

The circumstances were different if you compare the 2 eras but the need to survive is the same.


jawzsg;636361 said:
I am as confused too... "lean", "mean" and "hungry" are terms coined by mostly marketing company/consultants etc... the main emphasis is the "drive" that they merely wanted to preach, e.g. that desire to succeed, attain or achieve much to any lean mean and hungry animal would instinctively strive for food. It is all well as a motivational concept and all these marketing consultants have to come up with fresh ideas less their services becomes stale-mate.

I am really concerned when people take such motivation concepts too religiously as on the flip side, a lean mean and hungry animal is also a dangerous one too., one that would also resort to canibalism...a no no in our species... inhuman.

We just want to nuture our children into responsible adults and show/guide them towards attaining knowledge which will be necessary to their lives and society in future,.. and we like our local education system to be along the same line, to provide that opportunity for every young citizen.... all in all here, we seek improvement in the system but was sad to discover that our resources are strained by many non-citizen.

Public schools, funded by taxpayer and run by local governement should be for local young citizen as first priority. I am not interested in how good or hungry those others are in comparison to our local children. They can go to a private school and excel there. If we think our local children are not up to par comparatively, then re-look and re-fine our education system and all the more, a place have to be secured for each child to be given that chance to improve.... not to be displaced.

To say that foreign children are brighter than our local ones and therefore deserves the right to displaced them in our local public facilities is not only confusing... it's undoing....
 
Re: Ge 2011

As I have mentioned its the values that I am concerned about -

Complacent type ---> don't like to study ---> Parents stressed ---> goes for tuition ---> Slacker even more stressed and tries to escape

Hungry type ---> hungry to excel ---> Parents provide support ---> goes for tuition ---> Hungry student is also stressed BUT tries.

In both cases - who actually needs the tuition to survive ? The RGS girl is hungry and is trying to maintain her position (kudos for her upbringing and her parents).

The complacent ? I hope he can carry his own full pack and be more hungry to survive. If one knows that he / she is short of competency in an area then he / she should make it up with more work. But I rarely see that in most kids I interact with. Most just tell me - "Wah, so on ... like this sure CMI".

Solidgold;636287 said:
"I am confused now. You mentioned the hungry one doesn't need tuition, only the slackers do. I do not agree with your statement. I have given an example of even the top of the elite has to attend extra classes and course in order to maintain their position there. "

+1000

Spot on again! I have stop trying to explain in this thread after seeing MIW kind of response we get. Better go read the ST bullshit instead. No diff.
 
Re: Ge 2011

What is going on in this thread is exactly the kind of debate that the PAP is unwilling to have with the rest of the country. As far as the PAP is concerned, the rest of the country is too lazy and too stupid to see the big picture. Therefore, it needs to be led by a group of elites who have proven themselves in the hungry race, and no dissent is tolerated. If you know your place, you will get some dollars thrown at you every election even if you have multiple condos and BMWs.

I have many friends who did not come from the best schools, or the best family backgrounds. Some did not study hard in their earlier years (loser according to RBB), but in each of them I see a decent man who is trying his best to provide good life for his family and children. I do not claim to know all Singaporeans, and neither is my experience of children as pessimistic as RBB (although I do think that some are too rich and spoilt for their own good), but I think there is space for everyone in this country.

As much as PAP wishes that Singaporeans will work harder and longer hours then the rest (We already are) and cheaper (wages for low income has not gone up for some time), I cannot help but think about how much of this is driven by their love of Singapore and their desire to see the best for the country, or their ambition to build an international city and legacy?

There is also an increasing group of haves who think that the rest of the country owes then a living. To them, the general population consists of lazy, shiftless people who cannot be trusted to hold themselves accountable to to the rest of the world unlike themselves. And since the domestic population is so useless, they have told their scholars with numerous blue-ribbon academic qualifications to do a study in which the conclusion is to load 6.5 mil people onto this piece of rock to make it a sustainable red dot on the global map. After the meeting everyone went home to sleep and here we are 10 years later with overcrowding everywhere and a general peon population that is very dulan with the way things are.

Those who have read Wee Shu Min's caustic post will get a taste of this attitude in the successful, elite strata of the Singapore society. She is a product of our education system, complete with the hunger and drive to excel - the rest please f-off and sleep in the gutter just don't block the drain when the rains come or my Orchard Road will flood.

Our education system schools tens of thousands of children every year. RBB talks about RI and RGS like all the rest of the neigbourhood schools deserve the factory jobs they get shipped to. The men-in-white talks about opportunities and meritocracy. But no one talks about the fact that kids do not start on the same base. The gap exists in every society yes, but as far as the elites are concerned - if you are hungry enough you can climb out of the gutter. However for every case of success out there are at least 100s of failures. MM Lee in his hard truths take the view that this collateral damage is inevitable in the course of human civilisation. After all, if your parents are not graduates, you are 90% condemned case so why waste resources to see if we can get 10% out to do better?

My question is - can we do better? Why must our school systems be structured as such? Anyone here who believes the primary school system is not elitist? Why can't we have the debate with more voices, and not just within PAP which is full of the elite themselves? Singapore has nothing but human resources. How can we not treasure the children put through our school system and ensure that they get the right values throughout and not just say that too for those who are difficult to help, too bad if you end up in the gutter. We are bringing foreigners in to replace you.

Nobody owes us a living yes. But we owe it ourselves to ask if we are getting the best of everyone who is here in Singapore, or are we taking the easy way out by importing bodies and telling the 30-40% who cannot score straight As or study 15 hours a day to sleep in the gutters?

Every five years people get to vote. If there is one thing I agree with you is there are more non-elites and elites out there. And their vote is as good as yours. Unless PAP wants to establish a dictatorship, some day we will have a debate about many of these issues - about the kind of society we want to be.
 
Re: Ge 2011

The fundamental difference in what some are trying to do are of 2 camps - both camps do see the struggle of the middle and lower class in society. Wee's views are as what you have described.

The other camp is focused on motivating them (make the next generation compete) without compromise - Closed "pro-local" psuedo bumi policies versus open meritocracy.

If you have read the Hard Truth you would have realised this - MM himself mentioned that there are some who should not have made the cabinet - they wash their hands after shaking hands with the fishmonger etc. But there are others who behave otherwise and their job is to see the big picture and lead. And people in this camp are hungry and proven.


ucypmas;636629 said:
What is going on in this thread is exactly the kind of debate that the PAP is unwilling to have with the rest of the country. As far as the PAP is concerned, the rest of the country is too lazy and too stupid to see the big picture. Therefore, it needs to be led by a group of elites who have proven themselves in the hungry race, and no dissent is tolerated. If you know your place, you will get some dollars thrown at you every election even if you have multiple condos and BMWs.

I have many friends who did not come from the best schools, or the best family backgrounds. Some did not study hard in their earlier years (loser according to RBB), but in each of them I see a decent man who is trying his best to provide good life for his family and children. I do not claim to know all Singaporeans, and neither is my experience of children as pessimistic as RBB (although I do think that some are too rich and spoilt for their own good), but I think there is space for everyone in this country.

As much as PAP wishes that Singaporeans will work harder and longer hours then the rest (We already are) and cheaper (wages for low income has not gone up for some time), I cannot help but think about how much of this is driven by their love of Singapore and their desire to see the best for the country, or their ambition to build an international city and legacy?

There is also an increasing group of haves who think that the rest of the country owes then a living. To them, the general population consists of lazy, shiftless people who cannot be trusted to hold themselves accountable to to the rest of the world unlike themselves. And since the domestic population is so useless, they have told their scholars with numerous blue-ribbon academic qualifications to do a study in which the conclusion is to load 6.5 mil people onto this piece of rock to make it a sustainable red dot on the global map. After the meeting everyone went home to sleep and here we are 10 years later with overcrowding everywhere and a general peon population that is very dulan with the way things are.

Those who have read Wee Shu Min's caustic post will get a taste of this attitude in the successful, elite strata of the Singapore society. She is a product of our education system, complete with the hunger and drive to excel - the rest please f-off and sleep in the gutter just don't block the drain when the rains come or my Orchard Road will flood.

Our education system schools tens of thousands of children every year. RBB talks about RI and RGS like all the rest of the neigbourhood schools deserve the factory jobs they get shipped to. The men-in-white talks about opportunities and meritocracy. But no one talks about the fact that kids do not start on the same base. The gap exists in every society yes, but as far as the elites are concerned - if you are hungry enough you can climb out of the gutter. However for every case of success out there are at least 100s of failures. MM Lee in his hard truths take the view that this collateral damage is inevitable in the course of human civilisation. After all, if your parents are not graduates, you are 90% condemned case so why waste resources to see if we can get 10% out to do better?

My question is - can we do better? Why must our school systems be structured as such? Anyone here who believes the primary school system is not elitist? Why can't we have the debate with more voices, and not just within PAP which is full of the elite themselves? Singapore has nothing but human resources. How can we not treasure the children put through our school system and ensure that they get the right values throughout and not just say that too for those who are difficult to help, too bad if you end up in the gutter. We are bringing foreigners in to replace you.

Nobody owes us a living yes. But we owe it ourselves to ask if we are getting the best of everyone who is here in Singapore, or are we taking the easy way out by importing bodies and telling the 30-40% who cannot score straight As or study 15 hours a day to sleep in the gutters?

Every five years people get to vote. If there is one thing I agree with you is there are more non-elites and elites out there. And their vote is as good as yours. Unless PAP wants to establish a dictatorship, some day we will have a debate about many of these issues - about the kind of society we want to be.
 
Re: Ge 2011

Red_Bean_Bun;636498 said:
When our kids go and study in the US or Europe - we are doing the same thing. The smart ones would have an opportunity to compete elsewhere. Singapore has evolved and its educational standards have been raised to a point that students from elsewhere would want to compete for a place here. And they all take the same SAT / GMAT exams.

If our kids (non-elites) get complacent and the educational standards continue to get better - expect that our kids would definitely start to lose their places. So what did Malaysia did - they put in quotas for the bumis. Then the Indians and chinese there started streaming towards Singapore for education because the places are fought for by merit.

Today, which doctor would you consider doing an operation for you - the bumi doctor or one graduated from NUS ?

The elites have no problems competing anywhere in the world but my concern are the non-elites which forms a large majority. How do you motivate them to compete ?
If competing is too stressful then you have to consider leaving Singapore - just like when it was too harsh to survive in China in the 1900s and the fishermen etc started migrating to Nanyang region to survive.

The circumstances were different if you compare the 2 eras but the need to survive is the same.

:yikess: ........
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b4vQlNMhmY"]YouTube - PAP Tin Pei Ling I don't know what to say[/ame]
 
Re: Ge 2011

Funniest video clips that I have seen for years.....the irony that PAP is facing..they pride their candidates the best what SPore can offer and deserve the astronomical pay but when they introduce a mediocre candidate....too good for opposition to miss out the slaughtering...

Add on to the fuel is Opss have attracted better, honest and passion to serve the people (although unproven) like Nicole...

I wish PAP luck in this GE which they may need it badly.

jawzsg;636823 said:
 
Re: Ge 2011

Dunno what to say ah? Just come down to Simpang for kopi later after dinner can liao.
 
Re: Ge 2011

I still believe in the fundamental principles/policies of PAP but the problem with them is that they run the country like an profit generating organization and have not done enough in helping those that couldnt cope up with the globalization. I am totally blown away by the Opps claims (Which was not refuted by any PAP ministers) that the bottom 10% Sporean is earning $3xx/monthly and the bottom 20% is only earning $5xx monthly.. I always symphatize with the foreign maids that earns $380/monthly which has gone up to $450 and now it seems that I should symphatize with the poor Sporean more...

I still dont see why the gov cannot allocate some reserves to help those that lost their job while reserving some of the jobs for them and not giving it to the foreigners like clerks. salesperson in a dept store, receptionist etc than giving work permit to the Filipinos, PRC etc which I consider not highly skilled that needs foreigners... I do admit that certain jobs like construction labourers, KTV hostess. highly skilled profesionals/experts/managers you leave it to the company/investor to decide.

On the same token, I hope Sporean will strive harder and be more hungry but if they have done all they can then I think Gov has the obligation to help the citizens.. This GE is proving to be a significant ones and I believe the PAP grassroots has failed miserably not able to sense the total frustration on the ground and the bread & butter issues that will proved to be lethal to PAP.. The last few walk-over has not help PAP either as they lost touch with the actual support (in terms of vote counts) and blinded the ruling party...
 
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Re: Ge 2011

zorro;636832 said:
Funniest video clips that I have seen for years.....the irony that PAP is facing..they pride their candidates the best what SPore can offer and deserve the astronomical pay but when they introduce a mediocre candidate....too good for opposition to miss out the slaughtering...

Add on to the fuel is Opss have attracted better, honest and passion to serve the people (although unproven) like Nicole...

I wish PAP luck in this GE which they may need it badly.

bro, TPL wasnt slaughered by the opps. she's been CSIed by the people of sg.
 
Re: Ge 2011

You are also right so give her a break else she may breakdown...

I can see Nicole making a fool out of her and no reply from her yet..

powersteer;636841 said:
bro, TPL wasnt slaughered by the opps. she's been CSIed by the people of sg.
 
Re: Ge 2011

After few Opps rally that I attended my view are:

1, The ground is sweet for the Opps taking
2. The Opps has great support especially from the lower rung of the society
3. The Opps can bring out issues sway the crowds but didnt offer enough strategy/solutions/recondmendation/improvement to convince the more rational and educated voters.
4. The Opps need good technocrate/real thinker to kill PAP just like MM needs Goh Keng Swee/Raja/Ong etc..
 
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Re: Ge 2011

Red_Bean_Bun;636494 said:
With a country the size of 4 million. The likelihood of finding good sportsmen is a lot smaller than a country of a population 400m or 4billion. Your protectionistic and bumi ideas will not go far being that the world is now more connected than ever. Talent aquisition knows no bounderies.

Finland has a population of 4 million. They have 3 F1 champions.
Slovenia has 2 million. They have consistent Olympic success in many categories.

It's not about population. The Singapore govt just doesn't care enough to have infrastructure to support budding young atheletes.
 
Re: Ge 2011

marklee;636851 said:
Finland has a population of 4 million. They have 3 F1 champions.
Slovenia has 2 million. They have consistent Olympic success in many categories.

It's not about population. The Singapore govt just doesn't care enough to have infrastructure to support budding young atheletes.

Not forgetting the pride of Finland, Nokia... The world biggest mobilephone co...
 
Re: Ge 2011

rodders;636833 said:
Dunno what to say ah? Just come down to Simpang for kopi later after dinner can liao.

Sorry I can't, coz I need to tend to my free lance photographic work this weekend... I had already lost my part time job to a FT, as contracted photographer much to the protest of their studio manager in Australia...it not about quality, just low pricing.
 
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Re: Ge 2011

zorro;636844 said:
After few Opps rally that I attended my view are:

1, The ground is sweet for the Opps taking
2. The Opps has great support especially from the lower rung of the society
3. The Opps can bring out issues sway the crowds but didnt offer enough strategy/solutions/recondmendation/improvement to convince the more rational and educated voters.
4. The Opps need good technocrate/real thinker to kill PAP just like MM needs Goh Keng Swee/Raja/Ong etc..

I have friends, who earn respectably, rooting for the Opps...probably in the upper middle-class (or whatever what classes LHL classified or have studied for the housing ceiling cap), or simply put, well enough without having to worry about major monetary issues.

The issues, that we are having now, are no longer just pressing for the lower echelon (maybe more) but for majority of the new generations. they are as well, e.g. housing for the new generations, education for their kids and jobs issues for current working force. And social issues e.g. putting tissues, pretending to sleep while sitting on priority seats..

As far as rallies' limited time constraints concern, the hours are simply not enough to go in depth and to cover all issues for all listeners, coming from all walks of life.

Parliament should be the place.

Believe if Jee Say or Show Mao went on rambling chim economic or financial jargons, terms detailing the processes, plans or solutions, crickets sound would only be heard on those fields and stadiums...One thing is for sure, is, the crowds came voluntarily for Opps parties. be it real supporters or on the fences. While, on the another side...benefit of doubts...free chicken rice for the true supporters or folks who may had to worry when is their next meal or just simply going for free food and free tour at Resort World?

Great economist like Keng Swee is hard to come by but it's a good start to have people of Keng Swee/Raja caliber coming out who wish to serve our country..be it in the Gov or in Opp party. Rock or build upon the foundation?

Carrot for thoughts - Free carrots distributed once every blue moon or having local people to learn how to plant their own carrots?
 
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Re: Ge 2011

I think Tan Jee Say's $60 billion plan is really something well thought of.. and it sounds like a first step for nation regeneration..

zorro;636844 said:
After few Opps rally that I attended my view are:

1, The ground is sweet for the Opps taking
2. The Opps has great support especially from the lower rung of the society
3. The Opps can bring out issues sway the crowds but didnt offer enough strategy/solutions/recondmendation/improvement to convince the more rational and educated voters.
4. The Opps need good technocrate/real thinker to kill PAP just like MM needs Goh Keng Swee/Raja/Ong etc..
 
Re: Ge 2011

LHL would probably be scratching his Cambridge mathematical side of his head as to where our middle class's salary range roughly falls under..MAYBE that's the problem when pay too high..
 

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