Nissan is a liar! - Porsche

Re: Nissan is a liar! - Porsche

great response, kenna slap.
 
Re: Nissan is a liar! - Porsche

So now Porsche is a liar !!! - Nissan............
 
Re: Nissan is a liar! - Porsche

kenntona;386160 said:
So now Porsche is a liar !!! - Nissan............
Click to expand...
either liar, incompetent at driving or disastrous at PR, or all 3.

Anyway the guy is a 911 development manager for damn long liao. How could he have uttered such sacrilege without evidence? We shall see.... nice drama.
 
Re: Nissan is a liar! - Porsche

"50 kilograms of data logging equipment supplied by Marelli and camera equipment."

The complete data system probably weighed 10kg at most (being very generous). 40kg of camera equipment.. that's either a lot of cameras, or some very heavy ones.

But nothing can be proven no matter what Porsche or NIssan say. No one scrutinizes anything weeks or months after the event. They just need to show up on a nice clear day with two stock samples of each car and then lap and cross lap them. But even if Porsche wants to call them out that way, they don't stand to gain much even if the GTR does in fact turn out to be much slower on average vs previous claim, because as others have pointed out, the GTR costs a fraction what Porsches do. Regardless of the outcome, Porsche has already lost on the short term performance per dollar ratio.
 
Re: Nissan is a liar! - Porsche

kenntona;386160 said:
So now Porsche is a liar !!! - Nissan............
Click to expand...


傲慢自大的騙子.........
 
Re: Nissan is a liar! - Porsche

that's great from a spectator viewpoint, but horrible pressure from the manufacturer's viewpoint. Imagine a crash. Imagine losing. Imagine not setting a great time (almost certain to miss the mark).

That will never be. But cross fingers, hopefully it will.
 
Re: Nissan is a liar! - Porsche

Porsche kenna bang

"In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R."
Click to expand...


Nissan: 1
Porsche: 0
 
Re: Nissan is a liar! - Porsche

YouTube - Nissan GTR vs Porsche 911 Turbo Fifth Gear

A video from an episode of Fifth Gear.

Bruno Senna drives both the GTR and 997 Turbo back to back.

997 Turbo is one of his favorite cars..have driven it before.

First time driving the GTR. Drove half an hour before doing a fast lap.

Guess which car was faster by 0.3 second?

Don't know how Porsche can get a difference of 20+ secs :)
 
Re: Nissan is a liar! - Porsche

"Inside Line says: Even the biggest GT-R skeptics can't deny the cold, hard facts now presented by Nissan."

What cold hard facts? More video of the same lap? Images of tires months later? Nothing can be proved off that past lap anymore, not at this point in time with all the lag.
 
Re: Nissan is a liar! - Porsche

good points all. One point is that Nissan is better than Porsche's hit and run exercise. The other point is why the hell is Nissan giving videos after videos which prove nothing?
 
Re: Nissan is a liar! - Porsche

At least Nissan back their timing claim with videos. Porsche only has words to back their claim do far.

Nissan also used their own driver to drive their own car and used that timing to compare against the best timing that a 997 Turbo achieved at the ring.

Porsche used their driver to drive both cars and compare timings. Besides being bias, inexperience with the GTR comes into play. While the 997 has the advantage of a driver with a lot of experience driving 997s in all conditions behind the wheel.

Who is to say that the Porsche driver was not told to take it easy when driving the GTR or maybe even driving with all settings in comfort mode?

The point is that Porsche claimed Nissan cheated with words only and Nissan replied with words and video. If Porsche really wants to settle this issue, they should put time, put place and see if Nissan accepts :)
 
Re: Nissan is a liar! - Porsche

discom;386576 said:
If Porsche really wants to settle this issue, they should put time, put place and see if Nissan accepts :)
Click to expand...

Agree totally!
 
Re: Nissan is a liar! - Porsche

most correct positioon: porsche to apologise for engineer's outburst. say sorry to the great nissan motor company. after all they questioned nissan's credibility, without evidence.
 
Re: Nissan is a liar! - Porsche

Wow... good rebuttal. :eek:

--------------------------

Your model, while useful is simplistic in that it only considers part of the picture. Power to weight is certainly a good and useful indicator of performance, but you must add in other factors which are very significant:

Rolling resistance, including bearing and tire friction: Nissan has repeatedly stressed that power to the ground is much higher for a GT-R than conventional cars due to the very low friction of the drive-train compared to conventional sports cars. This makes the use of BHP for the GT-R less relevant. Rolling resistance of tires is an unknown for the GT-R, and not likely significant at high speed.

Aero drag and frontal area: GT-R has a much lower drag than typical sports cars at 0.27 and it makes downforce. This means a much higher speed down the straights than a typical car ( in particular those with downforce). Grip is also higher since most cars have lift at high speed and those with any downforce (extremely rare in road cars) will have much higher aero drag. The GT-R has a phenomenal lift to drag ratio for a road car, and this is a very significant factor in it's high speed potential both in terms of top speed and cornering grip. A conventional sports car with the same BHP would not go nearly as fast down the straight, and when you couple this with the higher power to the ground for the stated BHP, you have a significant factor ignored in the BHP/weight ratio.

Shift speed: GT-R shifts much faster than a conventional sports car, and this must be factored in. How many shifts per lap times benefit per shift needs to be added in to the mix.

Center of gravity height: GT-R has gone to significant lengths compared to other cars to lower center of gravity. A lower cg reduces weight transfer and thus provides more grip from each pair of tires on an axle than does a car with a higher cg.

Corner exit speed: this is based on being able to put down the power without spinning the tires. If you can go to full throttle faster than other cars because traction control and car balance allow it, then car will be faster on every corner exit than conventional cars.

Balance in transitions: data logger printouts from Steve Millen's drive on track for R&T mag showed that GT-R was much faster (by a very wide margin) than other cars tested though a series of esses at Buttonwillow. It was also much, much faster through several other sections. If during a series of transitions on track you cannot confidently put the power down, you will need to back off to make certain the car is settled as it changes direction. It would seem the GT-R can do this much better than other cars on a race track. If one looks at the following speed vs distance charts for the Z06, GT-R and 997 turbo, one can see that the cars are very close in many sections, but the GT-R (red curve) is much, much faster in several areas and over a long distances than the other two cars. This can not be explained in any way by a simple BHP/weight ratio comparison.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/0508_ct_OnTrack.pdf

The GT-R is so much faster than the other two cars through the esses and it appears to defy physics. Power to weight ratio would only apply to compare part of the lap.

One can see from the deceleration sections that the GT-R does not gain much if any under braking. It's gains are virtually all made while on the gas. It would be interesting to see a comparison of the throttle pedal tracks. I would think the GT-R is at full throttle much more than the other cars on that lap, allowing it to gain significant advantage.

I have done hundreds of lap simulations using Lapsim (and thousands of laps on track), and while power to weight is a primary determinant of lap time, it is only a small part of the picture. Not to take away from your chart and the standard deviation trend-lines, which I found most interesting. Assuming of course the GT-R did those lap times at the Ring which I believe, one needs to look at the car's other dimensions to see why it is a new "yardstick" and why Porsche and others would buy one to dissect and analyze it.

The GT-R is a 3 Sigma event!
 
Re: Nissan is a liar! - Porsche

Nah... I'm just interested in the truth, like other like-minded auto enthusiasts out there. ;)
 
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