Official 2011 BMWSG Sepang Track Day thread
- Thread starter Racebred
- Start date
NTY
Well-Known Member
Re: Official 2011 BMWSG Sepang Track Day thread
Hey Shawn,
IMO We can't satisfy everyone in life so I think you need not justify everything you do. Democracy doesn't always work in every aspect. With only a sole organiser, it's not hard to imagine the amount of personal sacrifices required to organise a TD for such a big crowd. So the least the participants could do is be cooperative and not make the organiser's life more difficult. Just do what you deem is fit, you have my support. No offence to anyone here.
Hey Shawn,
IMO We can't satisfy everyone in life so I think you need not justify everything you do. Democracy doesn't always work in every aspect. With only a sole organiser, it's not hard to imagine the amount of personal sacrifices required to organise a TD for such a big crowd. So the least the participants could do is be cooperative and not make the organiser's life more difficult. Just do what you deem is fit, you have my support. No offence to anyone here.
Re: Official 2011 BMWSG Sepang Track Day thread
Spot on NTY
But let's put al lthese into perspective again...a simple process but need some serious commitment into it as well :
1. If ur schedule permits, sign up early and pay up. If u just put ur name down and not paying up soon enough while others have, u r automatically kicked out from the list. So, let's exercise some common courtersy here and not be selfish.
2. if ur schedule is uncertain, stand by and keep monitoring the progress. Be ready to take over a slot if someone sells it. Not a great idea to turn up at the door and your name was never in the list. Hence the hoo ha hoo ha here and this makes the organiser's life bit more difficult
3. Priority ...do we still exercise this much? IMO, priority to be given to members of the club or those who have been with us for many trackdays but not regular users of this site.
4. Target numbers ..think 40 is sensible. And 5% plus minues or bit more is bound to happen and most of the time, organiser will only find out on the day itself when he checks off the list....Do we need organiser to announce this on the trackday itself ? Answer is probably No.
So what to do? Organiser can update the thread again the next day if necessary.
5. Complain bout traffic? Well, one should already know what 40 cars or 60 cars TDs are like. We can control the registration numbers but we can't control the numbers of cars on the track in one go. Sometimes, we get clear lap some times we dont so just have to accept it.
If u want 25 cars TD , can be done. Pay more and pay upfront in strictest sense. Maybe later u can sell your slot at premium too ( not encouraged ) if u cant make it in the end.
Spot on NTY
But let's put al lthese into perspective again...a simple process but need some serious commitment into it as well :
1. If ur schedule permits, sign up early and pay up. If u just put ur name down and not paying up soon enough while others have, u r automatically kicked out from the list. So, let's exercise some common courtersy here and not be selfish.
2. if ur schedule is uncertain, stand by and keep monitoring the progress. Be ready to take over a slot if someone sells it. Not a great idea to turn up at the door and your name was never in the list. Hence the hoo ha hoo ha here and this makes the organiser's life bit more difficult
3. Priority ...do we still exercise this much? IMO, priority to be given to members of the club or those who have been with us for many trackdays but not regular users of this site.
4. Target numbers ..think 40 is sensible. And 5% plus minues or bit more is bound to happen and most of the time, organiser will only find out on the day itself when he checks off the list....Do we need organiser to announce this on the trackday itself ? Answer is probably No.
So what to do? Organiser can update the thread again the next day if necessary.
5. Complain bout traffic? Well, one should already know what 40 cars or 60 cars TDs are like. We can control the registration numbers but we can't control the numbers of cars on the track in one go. Sometimes, we get clear lap some times we dont so just have to accept it.
If u want 25 cars TD , can be done. Pay more and pay upfront in strictest sense. Maybe later u can sell your slot at premium too ( not encouraged ) if u cant make it in the end.
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Re: Official 2011 BMWSG Sepang Track Day thread
Yup, likewise, if signing up for a friend who does not come to the site and he has already paid, the list should be updated for him to reflect his attendance. It doesn't really matter who the guy is, who his friend is. He has paid or is paying beforehand, there's a spot for him, so he goes up on the list. Easy
and clear for everyone else.
Cheers
TripleM;640603 said:
Yup, likewise, if signing up for a friend who does not come to the site and he has already paid, the list should be updated for him to reflect his attendance. It doesn't really matter who the guy is, who his friend is. He has paid or is paying beforehand, there's a spot for him, so he goes up on the list. Easy
and clear for everyone else.Totally agree
Totally agree with even post event update.
Cheers
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KITT
Well-Known Member
Re: Official 2011 BMWSG Sepang Track Day thread
Yo Racebred,
Stupid question here...asz a newbie to track here, possible to bring stock E90 for the July session? Last oil changes services @ Feb 2011 and Brakes changes last Sept '10..., is that ok to join you guys? Is it advisable to oil service for a new one after the session????? hehehehee
Lastly, what is the amt am I suppose to pay in SGD? And how I know who are going for the July Track session?
Thanks a lot ...
Yo Racebred,
Stupid question here...asz a newbie to track here, possible to bring stock E90 for the July session? Last oil changes services @ Feb 2011 and Brakes changes last Sept '10..., is that ok to join you guys? Is it advisable to oil service for a new one after the session?????
heheheheeLastly, what is the amt am I suppose to pay in SGD? And how I know who are going for the July Track session?
Thanks a lot ...
Re: Official 2011 BMWSG Sepang Track Day thread
hi KITT
My advice is nearer to the event like a week or so, do hv final check ups on essential things like brakes, suspension and tires
Not so much issue regarding oil but at least the level has to meet min level ok?
Also do some allignment if u like...
All of us started just like you except Harold who goes straight to Slicks haha
hi KITT
My advice is nearer to the event like a week or so, do hv final check ups on essential things like brakes, suspension and tires
Not so much issue regarding oil but at least the level has to meet min level ok?
Also do some allignment if u like...
All of us started just like you except Harold who goes straight to Slicks haha
Racebred
Core Group Members
Re: Official 2011 BMWSG Sepang Track Day thread
Of course. You can track any mechanically-sound car. The first car I tracked was my 118bhp E46 318i on stock 15" rims. Feb oil change for an end July track day is acceptable. If you really want to protect your engine you can do an oil change first, but if its me I'll just top up to the required level. Same for other fluids. Visually check you have enough pad and rotor left, make sure your tyres are in good condition and you're good to go. If you did not go hardcore during the track session, then stick to your servicing countdown for the next servicing. If you love your car very much as some of us do, it doesnt hurt to go for an early oil change.
As for track registration details and info, check the thread which I will be posting next week.
See you at the track!
KITT;641490 said:Yo Racebred,
Stupid question here...asz a newbie to track here, possible to bring stock E90 for the July session? Last oil changes services @ Feb 2011 and Brakes changes last Sept '10..., is that ok to join you guys? Is it advisable to oil service for a new one after the session?????
Lastly, what is the amt am I suppose to pay in SGD? And how I know who are going for the July Track session?
Thanks a lot ...
Of course. You can track any mechanically-sound car. The first car I tracked was my 118bhp E46 318i on stock 15" rims. Feb oil change for an end July track day is acceptable. If you really want to protect your engine you can do an oil change first, but if its me I'll just top up to the required level. Same for other fluids. Visually check you have enough pad and rotor left, make sure your tyres are in good condition and you're good to go. If you did not go hardcore during the track session, then stick to your servicing countdown for the next servicing. If you love your car very much as some of us do, it doesnt hurt to go for an early oil change.
As for track registration details and info, check the thread which I will be posting next week.
See you at the track!
Racebred
Core Group Members
Re: Official 2011 BMWSG Sepang Track Day thread
Ok. Thanks to everyone for stating their views. Much appreciated. A friend has contacted me to find out the nature of the miscom I mentioned, leading to this fiasco. Good that there's now a good common understanding, that there's nothing fishy going on.
I shall start the July 30th track day registration this coming monday. Pls do call up and inform your friends who do not surf this forum, or do not have time to come in regularly. I will also start a track day notification subscription thread. So that everyone can also subscribe to that thread and be notified via email in the future.
Ok. Thanks to everyone for stating their views. Much appreciated. A friend has contacted me to find out the nature of the miscom I mentioned, leading to this fiasco. Good that there's now a good common understanding, that there's nothing fishy going on.
I shall start the July 30th track day registration this coming monday. Pls do call up and inform your friends who do not surf this forum, or do not have time to come in regularly. I will also start a track day notification subscription thread. So that everyone can also subscribe to that thread and be notified via email in the future.
Racebred
Core Group Members
Re: Official 2011 BMWSG Sepang Track Day thread
BTW I will go ahead to book 6 track days with sepang in 2011, going by the demand we see here. A possible dampener on the demand would be the opening of the singapore track. Thus, we then have an option of using one (or two) of the 6 track days, if this decreased demand situation happens, as a low-volume track day. Simple calculation would give us, for a 20-car track day, a fee of S$390 or 900rm. Or if there is demand for higher exclusivity, we can have a 15 car or any number of car track day, we will just divide accordingly. Or if possible we can let go of the slot to other clubs.
I will go ahead to choose 6 saturday 9-12pm slots, as evenly spaced out in 2 months' spacing as possible, taking into account holidays (nsh jams, plus avoiding CNY, xmas this kind of period), races (F1, motogp, mss, etc), and other relevant factors. By coming in early, we can secure good dates that make sense to us before they are all taken up. I shall do so during the next track day on July 30th. Hopefully I can get a date immediately after F1 so we can have a nicely rubbered track.
BTW I will go ahead to book 6 track days with sepang in 2011, going by the demand we see here. A possible dampener on the demand would be the opening of the singapore track. Thus, we then have an option of using one (or two) of the 6 track days, if this decreased demand situation happens, as a low-volume track day. Simple calculation would give us, for a 20-car track day, a fee of S$390 or 900rm. Or if there is demand for higher exclusivity, we can have a 15 car or any number of car track day, we will just divide accordingly. Or if possible we can let go of the slot to other clubs.
I will go ahead to choose 6 saturday 9-12pm slots, as evenly spaced out in 2 months' spacing as possible, taking into account holidays (nsh jams, plus avoiding CNY, xmas this kind of period), races (F1, motogp, mss, etc), and other relevant factors. By coming in early, we can secure good dates that make sense to us before they are all taken up. I shall do so during the next track day on July 30th. Hopefully I can get a date immediately after F1 so we can have a nicely rubbered track.
Racebred
Core Group Members
Re: Official 2011 BMWSG Sepang Track Day thread
In due time I'm sure the spore track will be up. There's a revised opening date and so when it does really open, we bmwsg can go down and take a look. I'm not sure how the format may be, but if possible, I'll arrange something for our forum guys to go down and have a session at the track. How about that..
In due time I'm sure the spore track will be up. There's a revised opening date and so when it does really open, we bmwsg can go down and take a look. I'm not sure how the format may be, but if possible, I'll arrange something for our forum guys to go down and have a session at the track. How about that..
Re: Official 2011 BMWSG Sepang Track Day thread
For post-July trackdays and with demand so hot now, what is the best way to avoid situations where everyone is trying to pay at the same time within an hour etc?
Does anyone think that as a BMWsg trackday there should be portion of slots reserved for BMWs only?
Or that drivers who have never contributed to the community in any way (forum discussions, meetups, event organization), with their only interaction with the community being at these 5-6 trackdays a year, should take lower priority than those who have?
For post-July trackdays and with demand so hot now, what is the best way to avoid situations where everyone is trying to pay at the same time within an hour etc?
Does anyone think that as a BMWsg trackday there should be portion of slots reserved for BMWs only?
Or that drivers who have never contributed to the community in any way (forum discussions, meetups, event organization), with their only interaction with the community being at these 5-6 trackdays a year, should take lower priority than those who have?
Racebred
Core Group Members
Re: Official 2011 BMWSG Sepang Track Day thread
Yes, moving forward, I also concur that we should adopt this approach. Because if not slowly it will become a quasi-public event. Which brings it away from our original focus of encouraging forummers here to track their BMWs. That said, over time, our regular forummers sold their BMW and went on to other makes. We should include these people + new BMW forummers who wish to track. And then also, plus people who are not in the first 2 categories but have tracked with us very regularly since the beginning (the support factor).
This brings about the need to introduce selection criteria, which will undoubtly involve measures which will be unfriendly and unpopular. Once it approaches a bureaucratic environment, this event will become a turn-off for many people. This middle ground will be difficult to tread, and requires a firm collective agreement on the guidelines that we will be setting going into 2012. I would very much love to still run a system that is friendly, without crippling red-tape, non-authoritative, as much as I can. Because we are here to have fun and it would seem counter-productive if we step on toes, create dissatisfaction in the process.. etc. It runs against the whole spirit of doing this in the first place. But then again, the situation sort of calls for stricter measures.. sigh.
As for your 1st qn, everybody paying at the same time, I also need to brainstorm on how to improve on this system. If we do not change, we could see another 50 car signup for the september one. comments?
One other method, if this level of demand continues, is to book sepang for the whole day. 9-12pm, 1-4pm. Granted, many people do not like the afternoon session due to the journey, but perhaps this could alleviate some of the pressure on keeping the 40 car limit. We should be able to get the 12-1pm slot thrown in for free. So perhaps we have an extra free 30mins for this 2 groups (9-1230pm, 1230-4pm). We can then accommodate up to 80 slots (including people who wanna do both slots). Not the best of ideas here i know... but an idea nonetheless. Let's throw some ideas around and see what we can come up with..
Yes, moving forward, I also concur that we should adopt this approach. Because if not slowly it will become a quasi-public event. Which brings it away from our original focus of encouraging forummers here to track their BMWs. That said, over time, our regular forummers sold their BMW and went on to other makes. We should include these people + new BMW forummers who wish to track. And then also, plus people who are not in the first 2 categories but have tracked with us very regularly since the beginning (the support factor).
This brings about the need to introduce selection criteria, which will undoubtly involve measures which will be unfriendly and unpopular. Once it approaches a bureaucratic environment, this event will become a turn-off for many people. This middle ground will be difficult to tread, and requires a firm collective agreement on the guidelines that we will be setting going into 2012. I would very much love to still run a system that is friendly, without crippling red-tape, non-authoritative, as much as I can. Because we are here to have fun and it would seem counter-productive if we step on toes, create dissatisfaction in the process.. etc. It runs against the whole spirit of doing this in the first place. But then again, the situation sort of calls for stricter measures.. sigh.
As for your 1st qn, everybody paying at the same time, I also need to brainstorm on how to improve on this system. If we do not change, we could see another 50 car signup for the september one. comments?
One other method, if this level of demand continues, is to book sepang for the whole day. 9-12pm, 1-4pm. Granted, many people do not like the afternoon session due to the journey, but perhaps this could alleviate some of the pressure on keeping the 40 car limit. We should be able to get the 12-1pm slot thrown in for free. So perhaps we have an extra free 30mins for this 2 groups (9-1230pm, 1230-4pm). We can then accommodate up to 80 slots (including people who wanna do both slots). Not the best of ideas here i know... but an idea nonetheless. Let's throw some ideas around and see what we can come up with..
harold996tt
Well-Known Member
Re: Official 2011 BMWSG Sepang Track Day thread
Doing the afternoon session is not a problem for most of the SMF gang as we tend to stay over the night after the track day anyway so that should relieve you of 10 cars almost immediately for the morning session RB.
As for two sessions, I can say that very few will do that RB, its just way too tiring for most.
Racebred;643826 said:
Doing the afternoon session is not a problem for most of the SMF gang as we tend to stay over the night after the track day anyway so that should relieve you of 10 cars almost immediately for the morning session RB.
As for two sessions, I can say that very few will do that RB, its just way too tiring for most.
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Re: Official 2011 BMWSG Sepang Track Day thread
hv u ever seen the char kway teow man work?
u want 3 packs or 1 packs or 10 packs...he will fry 1 pack at a time. fuckcare u hv 5 persons or 20 persons in the Q.
if u wanna start trying to be perfect and making everyone happy..u may face with a situation in the future where u pisssed off too many.
i rather hv this problem than not enuf.
hv u ever seen the char kway teow man work?
u want 3 packs or 1 packs or 10 packs...he will fry 1 pack at a time. fuckcare u hv 5 persons or 20 persons in the Q.
if u wanna start trying to be perfect and making everyone happy..u may face with a situation in the future where u pisssed off too many.
i rather hv this problem than not enuf.
Re: Official 2011 BMWSG Sepang Track Day thread
Yup, just that those categories together already make up a large number of people, but at least it is still a fraction of the current total. And forumers who move to other makes have access to trackdays that BMW drivers don't. PCS for Porsches, ES for Lotus and Lambo, FCOS for Ferrari, etc. There are even Honda trackdays that allow only Hondas. Certain workshop trackdays for clients only, very few exceptions, etc.
Many groups are selective, alive, and don't seem unfriendly because I think most understand the challenges and practical solutions.
To stay fully flexible, work on a case by case basis, means huge load on the organizer(s) in terms of having to analyze each different situation, make a decision, execute. With a few simple rules that everyone can vote and agree on, it can be made simpler. More difficult at first, but easier than making 1 or 2 people making 100 subjective decisions every trackday, effectively 600 decisions a year.
It is not a case of perfection or making everyone happy. Every option will upset different groups of people, so instead of quashing discussion labeling it troublemaking, or using coarse language against it, why not seek solutions that most can agree on? Solutions that can very well simplify the work of the organizer(s)?
I think a few mission statements need to be made because right now it seems like there are a few different understandings which are naturally opposed to each other, and it's up to the organizers to explicitly state, or for the trackers to vote on. Everything will fall in line with the final statements.
Some possibilities for example. BMWsg trackdays are to
1) allow drivers to enjoy their BMWs on track
2) allow old BMW club friends to track together no matter what the car
3) be set apart from other trackdays through quality (safe, low car count)
4) be cool trackdays by having the best mix of sportscars from a range of marques
5) be the friendliest most inclusive of all trackdays, as long as there is demand it'll slowly grow to include all
6) do whatever it takes to avoid any shortfall at all because that's the most unworkable situation ever ( is it really?)
1 is semi opposed to 2
1 and 2 are semi opposed to 4
5 is in direct opposition to 3, and in semi opposition to 1 and 2
etc.
So let's figure out what it is.. time is on our side.. months to do it.
Agree that it's tough and unpleasant now, but also necessary and easier in the long term.
Then if there's a need to whittle the list down to say 45 from the 60, first you cut out those who paid after the first 12 hours (late). If all 60 have paid within 12 hours, then you take the Straits Times 15 days before the date of the trackday ( to allow for natural drop outs), take the 5th word of the first front page article, and say it has 8 letters, you just run through and knock every 8th person off and loop back to the start until you're down to the target number. Perfectly random and no one can be angry with you.
How about a 4 hour trackday, with the last 1.5 hours reserved for staged runs so that everyone gets some clean laps? For 30 minutes, 2:20 to 2:35 group goes out, split in the middle by time, spread by ~80 seconds ( so outlap half track apart and almost no chance of overlap), 2:35 - 2:45 also separate by half track ~90 seconds apart) also goes out for half hour, likewise for the 2:45 and above group. I would gladly help with this cos I should be free by then.
Racebred;643826 said:
Yup, just that those categories together already make up a large number of people, but at least it is still a fraction of the current total. And forumers who move to other makes have access to trackdays that BMW drivers don't. PCS for Porsches, ES for Lotus and Lambo, FCOS for Ferrari, etc. There are even Honda trackdays that allow only Hondas. Certain workshop trackdays for clients only, very few exceptions, etc.
Many groups are selective, alive, and don't seem unfriendly because I think most understand the challenges and practical solutions.
To stay fully flexible, work on a case by case basis, means huge load on the organizer(s) in terms of having to analyze each different situation, make a decision, execute. With a few simple rules that everyone can vote and agree on, it can be made simpler. More difficult at first, but easier than making 1 or 2 people making 100 subjective decisions every trackday, effectively 600 decisions a year.
It is not a case of perfection or making everyone happy. Every option will upset different groups of people, so instead of quashing discussion labeling it troublemaking, or using coarse language against it, why not seek solutions that most can agree on? Solutions that can very well simplify the work of the organizer(s)?
I think a few mission statements need to be made because right now it seems like there are a few different understandings which are naturally opposed to each other, and it's up to the organizers to explicitly state, or for the trackers to vote on. Everything will fall in line with the final statements.
Some possibilities for example. BMWsg trackdays are to
1) allow drivers to enjoy their BMWs on track
2) allow old BMW club friends to track together no matter what the car
3) be set apart from other trackdays through quality (safe, low car count)
4) be cool trackdays by having the best mix of sportscars from a range of marques
5) be the friendliest most inclusive of all trackdays, as long as there is demand it'll slowly grow to include all
6) do whatever it takes to avoid any shortfall at all because that's the most unworkable situation ever ( is it really?)
1 is semi opposed to 2
1 and 2 are semi opposed to 4
5 is in direct opposition to 3, and in semi opposition to 1 and 2
etc.
So let's figure out what it is.. time is on our side.. months to do it.
Agree that it's tough and unpleasant now, but also necessary and easier in the long term.
How about this.. everyone gets to sign up and pay as usual, absolute cut off at say 60, only POSB or DBS account transfers, no cheques either so none of that 3 day lag stuff. People without should just get their friends to transfer for them.
Then if there's a need to whittle the list down to say 45 from the 60, first you cut out those who paid after the first 12 hours (late). If all 60 have paid within 12 hours, then you take the Straits Times 15 days before the date of the trackday ( to allow for natural drop outs), take the 5th word of the first front page article, and say it has 8 letters, you just run through and knock every 8th person off and loop back to the start until you're down to the target number. Perfectly random and no one can be angry with you.
Good idea and personally I love it, but I agree with Harold that full day back to back, will not be appreciated by very many. 6 - 7 hours is a bit hard on road cars and most drivers too.
How about a 4 hour trackday, with the last 1.5 hours reserved for staged runs so that everyone gets some clean laps? For 30 minutes, 2:20 to 2:35 group goes out, split in the middle by time, spread by ~80 seconds ( so outlap half track apart and almost no chance of overlap), 2:35 - 2:45 also separate by half track ~90 seconds apart) also goes out for half hour, likewise for the 2:45 and above group. I would gladly help with this cos I should be free by then.
