recomendation to do BMW audio system

Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

it reali depends on wat installation u're talkin about.. if u're lookin at having the best wires, best rca cables, best lookin fuse... den i guess u're payin wat u're getting.. customize of sub box, amp holder/board all adds to the cost...

set a budget and stick to it... work around it, this ICE can nv be satisfied..
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

Sorry for stupid questions here... thanks oneHeadlight and James for the advice.

Apart from the speakers and sub, processor and the amp (problem with the E93 is that space is a premium and smaller amps for the same power are more expensive).... the following were as quoted.

The RCA cables are supposed to be custom 'cos of the length required for BMWs? and cost $500.
Speaker cables $300 (these are the basic copper ones)
Soundproofing of 2 front doors where speakers are (not sure of material but it's the thick silver sheeting) $350
Fuseblock and fuseholder ($100 & $60, these are the cheaper ones already)
Custom booth in the boot to hold amp +- processor $500
Installation of all of the above $450
No drilling etc 'cos I want to be able to return the car to stock.

To be fair all before any discount or negotiation.
Budget starting to get blown so appreciate advice on how to cut down on some of these. Especially what are these custom RCA cables that are needed? And fuseblock / fuseholders are not very expensive on the web.

So a relatively basic (but with all components) passive / active set-up with the above is looking like $5k - $7 easily. I'll have to be careful not overspending here.
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

DRV;341088 said:
Sorry for stupid questions here... thanks oneHeadlight and James for the advice.

Apart from the speakers and sub, processor and the amp (problem with the E93 is that space is a premium and smaller amps for the same power are more expensive).... the following were as quoted.

The RCA cables are supposed to be custom 'cos of the length required for BMWs? and cost $500.
Speaker cables $300 (these are the basic copper ones)
Soundproofing of 2 front doors where speakers are (not sure of material but it's the thick silver sheeting) $350
Fuseblock and fuseholder ($100 & $60, these are the cheaper ones already)
Custom booth in the boot to hold amp +- processor $500
Installation of all of the above $450
No drilling etc 'cos I want to be able to return the car to stock.

To be fair all before any discount or negotiation.
Budget starting to get blown so appreciate advice on how to cut down on some of these. Especially what are these custom RCA cables that are needed? And fuseblock / fuseholders are not very expensive on the web.

So a relatively basic (but with all components) passive / active set-up with the above is looking like $5k - $7 easily. I'll have to be careful not overspending here.

Bro DRV...

set a budget and tell the installer, i suppuse u're talkin about soundwerkz? assess the components on the internet, read the reviews, get the approximate cost(bear in mind ppl r doing a business and they do need to earn to sustain).

Know wat u wan, high quality sound? loud strong bass? surround sound?. if u wan high quality, cables play a major role coz they transmit singals to ur speakers and the thicker they are, the more they can transmit out.. for amps, if i didn't remember wrongly i think there are power amps and . different types of amp is used in diff applications
Electronic amplifier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the main point is to jus work out a budget for urself.. be it 1k or 10k.. there is always a system for it. mayb if u wan i can let u have a look at my setup done by soundwerkz. i'll be goin back there to do soundproofing. pm me if u wan to take alook
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

DRV, i would suggest you look elsewhere.
this is just my personal opinion, but RCA cables at $500 just do my head in.
Not to even mention speaker cables at $300.

most newbies look for a good upgrade from stock.
most people can tell the difference between stock and a good decent upgrade.
but how many newbies can tell the difference between something good and something excellent ?

your problem is most likely that u have been poisoned. Thats the thing with ICE.
its tempting because we know we would rather something better.

the following setup should be good enough.

front components set. 2 way. assume $800 for above average.
one amp for the speakers. assume $800 above average
one sub. assume $300 good enough.
one amp for the sub. assume $600 good enough.

Above assumptions are for brand new. If you dont mind used amps, and subwoofer...could easily save $1k.
i would advise against second hand for speakers...unless u are in the know.

installation.
amp board, - $150 (should be cheaper)
sub box - $150
sound proof - $300 for 2 doors.
cables - assume $300
fuse - assume $150
labour $300 max.

u could get away with about $3.5k to $4k and that is really above average.
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

The thing about amps, cables and wires...

installer will smoke you into getting the most expensive.
not convenient for me to say too much, but lets just say that 95 out of 100 people cant tell a $6 speaker cable from a $60 one.

i think iceman has also previously commented a test report on amp sound characteristics. i tend to agree with him, but some people would argue against it.
if i use amp brand A vs brand B.... with everything else constant, again, how many newbies can tell the difference ?
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

Thanks for your unbiased comments. Really appreciated and needed to be said.
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

Hi DRV, today was out for a ICE Checkout also. Went to visit soundwerkz today. I was quoted a $3k setup for a basic upgrade. In contrast to what you experienced, they seems reasonable on their pricing.

Was quoted $3k on the following -
Morel Dotech 4'' 2 way component speaker
Morel Dotech 6 Midbass
Hi/Lo convertor
Audison SRX 4.1 4channel Amplifier
4 awg OFC Power & Ground cable
16 awg OFC Speaker Cable
RCA Interconnects
Amp Mounting Board
Fuseholder
Installation
Optional topup of another $880 for a subwoofer+Box, RCA & upgrade to a 5 channel amp.

Compared to the few other reputable Bmw installers that I also check out on, I feel this is a more appropriate figure and a system I looking at. Looking at your figure, Probably you asked for some of the expensive hi-end products they carry? Or want some nice nice customization for your amps and system?
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

blink_er;341512 said:
Hi DRV, today was out for a ICE Checkout also. Went to visit soundwerkz today. I was quoted a $3k setup for a basic upgrade. In contrast to what you experienced, they seems reasonable on their pricing.

Was quoted $3k on the following -
Morel Dotech 4'' 2 way component speaker
Morel Dotech 6 Midbass
Hi/Lo convertor
Audison SRX 4.1 4channel Amplifier
4 awg OFC Power & Ground cable
16 awg OFC Speaker Cable
RCA Interconnects
Amp Mounting Board
Fuseholder
Installation
Optional topup of another $880 for a subwoofer+Box, RCA & upgrade to a 5 channel amp.

Compared to the few other reputable Bmw installers that I also check out on, I feel this is a more appropriate figure and a system I looking at. Looking at your figure, Probably you asked for some of the expensive hi-end products they carry? Or want some nice nice customization for your amps and system?

Hi blink_er
Cool... I suppose you are running passive with the 4 channel amp wired into 2 more powerful channels?

I didn't say they were unreasonable in their pricing. In fact I think they are quite reasonable... just that the entire system is much more expensive than I thought.
I was quoted for the Hertz tweeter + 4" + 8" midbass under seats, and Audison LRX Amp which adds some cost.
No hi/lo but RockFord Processor (which I heard from some people that I makes a hissing sound so I am keen to rid of it)
No fancy customization on my end, just want to make sure it all fits in my very very tiny boot with no drilling.
I will go down to Soundwerks to work something out.

Is yours an E90-3?

Cheers
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

I see differ on better and cheap cables, personally to me I experienced better clarity with some cables. Before I chose the current Van Den Hul cables, I made a trip to Adelphi to do an A/B test on different cables. Different cable give me different result. I chose Van Den Hul for it good transparency and shielding. I did this before the whole installation start as i wouldn't want to dismemtle the whole system once again just becos of the cables are giving some restriction on the whole system performance.

For me, I always work on a theory of sparing 15% of the whole sound system cost on the cables. In car, I find that better cable always come with better shielding which is very important especially in car enviroment which tend to have more static interferences(Hissing, Alternator whinning) than our home system.

As mentioned by Bro DRV, the custom cables recommended to him I believe should be something similar used on my current system as that is what Soundwerkz always recommended. I did my setup with them as well. IMHO, I find this is good becos it actually shorten the signals transportation path which theorically reduced the signals lost during the transportation, and also for a more neat and organized wiring installs.

And this recommendation infact leads to more work & effort for the installer as they nid to measure and solder from stage to stage. Things could be easily if they just recommend normal off-shelves cables from Monster etc. As for power and earth cables, a good 4awg or 0awg will do. Need not be a branded one as it dun really give improvement on sound quality but on a more efficient current transfer.

Just some of my personal views ans experiences. Cheers!
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

There are 3 schools of thoughts with regards to cables.

1. There is no audible difference in sound quality SQ especially in car enviroment.
2. There is a difference.
3. The difference is not worth the premium in $.

of course these are subjective and depends on your pocket. Partly psychological also i think. Anyway, hardcore DIY enthusiasts who have won numerous awards cant seem to agree on 1,2 or 3.
I tend to skew towards 3, because imho, i would settle for good enough for IN CAR, rather than some branded ones that cost 10 times more. BEcause like what Oskool said, better shielding.

for home entertainment, there is no question that cables make hell alot of difference.
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

DRV;341614 said:
Hi blink_er
Cool... I suppose you are running passive with the 4 channel amp wired into 2 more powerful channels?

I didn't say they were unreasonable in their pricing. In fact I think they are quite reasonable... just that the entire system is much more expensive than I thought.
I was quoted for the Hertz tweeter + 4" + 8" midbass under seats, and Audison LRX Amp which adds some cost.
No hi/lo but RockFord Processor (which I heard from some people that I makes a hissing sound so I am keen to rid of it)
No fancy customization on my end, just want to make sure it all fits in my very very tiny boot with no drilling.
I will go down to Soundwerks to work something out.

Is yours an E90-3?

Cheers

LRX and SRx...no contest !!!

u can pop by dynasty, hong guan, swift motion etc too...
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

oneHeadlight;341860 said:
LRX and SRx...no contest !!!

Bro Oneheadlight, I agreed on the older series of Lrx. The new model has much improved. But for the kind of price of the amplifier, it consider quite a good deal for it quality. While SRXs are their entry-level..The VRXs are really one of the best around :juggle:
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

Oskool;342294 said:
Bro Oneheadlight, I agreed on the older series of Lrx. The new model has much improved. But for the kind of price of the amplifier, it consider quite a good deal for it quality. While SRXs are their entry-level..The VRXs are really one of the best around :juggle:

I would avoid SRx (no offence to those who own it).
LRx indeed is good value for money
Vrx of cos is their higher end level...

audison's popularity sored, very much helped by aggressive dealership and pricing.
ANd i suspect also due to the awards won by a guy i know with full VRx setup.
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

Hmm...since with so many views on the cables, I probably top up abit to ask them upgrade to cables abit better than the normal, no need those branded ones should be safe enough right? But i feel end of the day, more often it the kind of quality we the listener hope to get from the system, and how much we willing to spend on the getting a good sound..

Cheers!
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

Bros, thanks for all the advice.

Went to Soundwerks yesterday again.... you guys are right, why the previous prices were high was because they thought I wanted top end (after seeing one of the 5-series there). Price now is more to my budget...

Going for passive set-up with
Hertz 8" subs under seats
Hertz HV100 4"
Hertz tweeter
Audison LRX 4.1
Rockford 3Sixty.1 processor

Will be sending car in on 18 June... will update on the outcome.
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

DRV;343404 said:
Bros, thanks for all the advice.

Went to Soundwerks yesterday again.... you guys are right, why the previous prices were high was because they thought I wanted top end (after seeing one of the 5-series there). Price now is more to my budget...

Going for passive set-up with
Hertz 8" subs under seats
Hertz HV100 4"
Hertz tweeter
Audison LRX 4.1
Rockford 3Sixty.1 processor

Will be sending car in on 18 June... will update on the outcome.

Hi DRV, i would suggest u consult another installer. This setup will not improve much.

u have to ask yourself some questions...
Why Hertz ?
why have the 8" under the seats ?
No sub ?
Why the need for the processor ?

dont rush into it. i think.
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

Hi DRV,

Convinient to let me know how much Soundwerks are charging for the work you mentioned below??

thanks!! :)

DRV;343404 said:
Bros, thanks for all the advice.

Went to Soundwerks yesterday again.... you guys are right, why the previous prices were high was because they thought I wanted top end (after seeing one of the 5-series there). Price now is more to my budget...

Going for passive set-up with
Hertz 8" subs under seats
Hertz HV100 4"
Hertz tweeter
Audison LRX 4.1
Rockford 3Sixty.1 processor

Will be sending car in on 18 June... will update on the outcome.
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

oneheadlight...

Processor for the multiple equalizer functions 'cos the original HU tuner is like just treble and bass... half a mind not to install that and save the $$. Any advice on this? Heard a couple of set-ups with and without processor, even for passive set-up ,and can hear (slight) difference 'cos of the better tuning... now is it worth extra $800+? hmmmm..

No choice for sub 'cos the E93 has absolutely no space in the trunk... cannot install anything there except the amp. If I place sub there then no space for any bags whatsoever.. sigh.
So after looking at options the best is to place 8" subs under the seats for slightly more punch but fits in the same hole.

Since using Hertz subs which fits well, thought of using Hertz 4" as well. Sound not too bad. Heard the Seas Lotus as well as Morel which are very good but price goes up a lot.

Am looking for improved sound but with the option of returning to stock later. Other shops I went to advised to drill holes to mount amp and change the door/trunk setup 'cos of the lack of space for amp. The trunk is extremely sensitive area 'cos even small intrusions will 'cos the roof mechanism to malfunction (cos the trunk opens 2 ways).

armvalkyrie, FYI the setup with processor costs about $5k+. Without can deduct about $800+ cos have to add hi/lo converter. Comparing to my home system, it's actually reasonable considering I actually spend more time listening to music in the car.

My options limited 'cos of space constraints. The E93 is the most appalling BMW in terms of space for ICE, even Z4 better. Bo bian.... Quite a few E92 have been done by the shops I went to but I think mine will be first E93 for them... guinea pig.
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

Hi DRV,
When I last checked for my ICE installation, LRx 4.1 was about $1.2K with installation, amp board, LOC, power cable, FUSE.
Then assuming you were quoted $4K+ without processor, it means $3K for the speakers..,would think that there would be more choices for that money.

DRV;343404 said:
Bros, thanks for all the advice.

Went to Soundwerks yesterday again.... you guys are right, why the previous prices were high was because they thought I wanted top end (after seeing one of the 5-series there). Price now is more to my budget...

Going for passive set-up with
Hertz 8" subs under seats
Hertz HV100 4"
Hertz tweeter
Audison LRX 4.1
Rockford 3Sixty.1 processor

Will be sending car in on 18 June... will update on the outcome.
 
Re: recomendation to do BMW audio system

pls read my reply in red.

DRV;343473 said:
oneheadlight...

Processor for the multiple equalizer functions 'cos the original HU tuner is like just treble and bass... half a mind not to install that and save the $$. Any advice on this? Heard a couple of set-ups with and without processor, even for passive set-up ,and can hear (slight) difference 'cos of the better tuning... now is it worth extra $800+? hmmmm..for that money, i would rather go for alpine H701 which is a processor, but in fact, i wud rather change the headunit. U worry about the look..which is subjective, so thats something u have to overcome.

No choice for sub 'cos the E93 has absolutely no space in the trunk... cannot install anything there except the amp. If I place sub there then no space for any bags whatsoever.. sigh. Change car !! haha. There is actually a sub, which i haven't heard before. its by JL audio...the xmax is super low. THe sub is probably the thinnest ever.
So after looking at options the best is to place 8" subs under the seats for slightly more punch but fits in the same hole.

Since using Hertz subs which fits well, thought of using Hertz 4" as well. Sound not too bad. Heard the Seas Lotus as well as Morel which are very good but price goes up a lot. if i read correctly, u are gonna have a 8", 4" and the tweets right ?
your 8" cannot go as low...cannot climb as high. Its stuck in between. not recommended. I am surprised that the installer can ignore this.

Sea Lotus and MOrel are two of my fav spaekers, but u have to take at least the upper midrange.

Am looking for improved sound but with the option of returning to stock later. Other shops I went to advised to drill holes to mount amp and change the door/trunk setup 'cos of the lack of space for amp. The trunk is extremely sensitive area 'cos even small intrusions will 'cos the roof mechanism to malfunction (cos the trunk opens 2 ways).sounds like a serious constraint. i wouldnt wanna be a guinea pig if i am u. Go talk to Hong Guan, or some other installer who has experience.

armvalkyrie, FYI the setup with processor costs about $5k+. Without can deduct about $800+ cos have to add hi/lo converter. i have a david navone high-low convertor for sale at $60 if anybody wants. Comparing to my home system, it's actually reasonable considering I actually spend more time listening to music in the car.

its probably worthwhile chekcing out the JL Audio new super thin sub.
in ICE, there are 3 things u need.

1. Space
2. time
3. money

so u probably have to compromise.
i wud most probably... (alittle irresponsible since i dunno the car inside out)....
1. change the headunit. alpine probably with processing capabilities like TA etc.
2. go active for 2 way setup. or maybe 3 way.
but i wud mod the door to fit in a 6.5", and mount the tweets on the A pillar.

3. Subwoofer. since i barely carry luggage in my trunk...i wud probabl install one.
say really no space..then i wud not install. I think its better than having 8" under the seat. neither here nor there.
and depending on the amp, and your choice of speakers.... may be able to get away with it...though the discerning ones can tell .

hope it helps.

My options limited 'cos of space constraints. The E93 is the most appalling BMW in terms of space for ICE, even Z4 better. Bo bian.... Quite a few E92 have been done by the shops I went to but I think mine will be first E93 for them... guinea pig.
 

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