Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

[C3P0]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

If I know nuts about PCs, I will probably go Funan or Challenger or Harvey Norman and buy one off the shelf.
If I know a lot about PCs, even know how to dismantle and assemble one, i sure go SimLim and cheap cheap put one together myself.

PML is suitable for some buyers and PI suitable for others. No right or wrong, unless someone unfamiliar with BMW go to a wrong PI and ganna bullied and tok.

If I buy BMW again I will go PI. But if Audi or Merc I probably will go AD.

Yawn.......sleepy siah. Good night everyone.

 

[megatron]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

cheepo 320 got such treatment boh ???

in case your new car breakdown in Malaysia....PML will arrange/pay for your transportation to continue your jorney, hotel stay if they cannot repair your car in 4hours.

A little disclaimer here. I have never experience the full service of PML and so do not quote me too much but please read the black and white in PML mobile service policy yourself.

I hope PML will provide the same service to all their customers. Its all part of customer loyalty retention....etc.

Touch wood. I hope either of us will ever need to experience/know the mobile service of PML.

Cheers and happy new year.
Megatron

 

[megatron]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

If I know nuts about PCs, I will probably go Funan or Challenger or Harvey Norman and buy one off the shelf.
If I know a lot about PCs, even know how to dismantle and assemble one, i sure go SimLim and cheap cheap put one together myself.

PML is suitable for some buyers and PI suitable for others. No right or wrong, unless someone unfamiliar with BMW go to a wrong PI and ganna bullied and tok.

If I buy BMW again I will go PI. But if Audi or Merc I probably will go AD.

Yawn.......sleepy siah. Good night everyone.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I agree with you. if you know the car well, you can save money to buy from PI or even import it yourself. As for me, I am a general consumer and better to take the conservative option.
Thanks
Megatron

 

[Racebred]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

I have just got my F10 from PML 3weeks ago. My advise is never to buy from any PI:

1) In case you need PML support after buying from PI, you will need to pay S$30K initial fees to PML before they will ever start talking to you and give you some difficulties here and there. I was at the PML showroom and saw a PML printed leaflet explaining this official warranty policy of PML for PI. If you visit their showroom, you should be able to get one of this leaflet at the service counter to read all the details.

2) The final effective selling price of F10 between PI and PML is at most S$20K different. If you are still looking so hard at this S$20K money, I think F10 may not be your comfortable target. Driving BMW, especially F10 and above, is all about throwing money into the drain for that extra lifestyle. Its very expensive every month and stingy me is still coming to term if I have made the correct commitment. So, if you do not have a deep pocket, better stay on dry land. Expensive BMW will give you that extra lifestyle comfort but the heavy financing could make your undies feel cold and wet if you do not have that kind of pocket.

3) F10 from PI and PML is different product. For PI, I heard there are UK spec (for four sessions) and Hong Kong Spec (for asia hot climate). I asked PI if there will be Park Assist feature, they replied they will never bring in any of these complicated/advance features. For the Hong Kong Spec, I asked PI if it comes with keyless entery and they NO! I must say the keyless entery feature is very high value to me and perhape also to many other potiential buyers. From this point onward, I seriously started to doubt the car spec of PI and need not ask any further.

4) Different service. Take note that you are not simply buying a physical car. You are actually buying a Driving Experience. The physical car is just 50% of the total experience. There other 50% will comes from the total service such as the sales service (PML never worry about getting COE or whats the COE price....I think they get the COE supply first before selling their cars). You will have alot of issues with PI for COE alone. How about the after sales service? Have you read about that BMW mobile service...in case your new car breakdown in Malaysia....PML will arrange/pay for your transportation to continue your jorney, hotel stay if they cannot repair your car in 4hours...etc? Please read from PML website as I am not their staff.
O yes, if you talk to a PI salesman about F10 service support, they will surely say no problem, very good.....etc and you will have to put your guards down to trust him. Well, if something is real and factual, there is no need to trust in the first place.

5) Resales value. In case you were to sell your BMW in the future, potiential buyer will surely ask PI or PML? Don't you think so?

6) Statistic. There are always good reasons for something to be extreamly popular. How many BMW did PI sold vs PML? Do you think there are many PI BMW cars on the road?

The above is my point of view only. Sorry to all PI but I think you will have to solve all these problems first before customers get stuck with an expensive stuff.
Thanks
Megatron

I have not bought a PI car before, but that does not mean I am opposed to it, nor will I never get a PI car in the future. There are some differences in opinion that I have with megatron's. Obviously there's no right or wrong, just a divergence of opinion.

Are you sure PI price is only S$20k lower than PML's? If yes, then I say the difference is not worth it. But given the OMV, I'm sure bigger differences can be pulled, and to make the entire exercise worthwhile.

Secondly, it's not about only just 1)saving money, 2)not being able to afford a PML BMW. It's about value. (for example) I can well afford a PML F10; it is well within my budget. However, I do not see the pricing of the product being in line with the value of the product. Thus, I cannot bring myself to buy it. It's a well-known fact that current cars sold by PML has industry-leading obscenely low levels of OMV. For some, they can take it, so they buy from PML. For others who cannot take it, and if they still want a BMW, they will simply take their business elsewhere.

Thirdly, its a well-known fact that smaller cap companies may under-deliver on their promise more often than big companies. Thus, buyer beware, do your homework, and I'm sure you'll be able to find a PI company that does an honest living, and do their best to deliver their promises. It's dangerous obviously, but an honest company will deliver the goods, and you can still enjoy the discount. I dont think they are mutually exclusive. If you cannot find such a company, then you pay top dollar for agent cars. I think that's fair, and that's life.

If you are afraid about COE going up and PI cannot deliver the car due to margins eroded by COE, then just bid COE on your own and buy a kosong car from PI. Simple.

On Specs: specs are different in different markets. There will be differences, but it doesnt mean its a lousy car. Look at the car individually, the specs that the PI can bring in, and if it tallies with the sale price, what's wrong. With region-specific specs, I'm sure the cost of retrofitting the GPS and bigger radiators do not amount to more than PML's profit margin. If you really want it to your specs, get the PI to factory order to your spec. Other than frequency-specific laws in different countries, you really can just get anything you want, perhaps even better than PML.

As for service, BMW is not a mystery car, like say if you PI a Spyker. More than enough competent workshops are around, such that you never really need to get your car adopted by PML. If adoption fee is a concern, you can try importing a Mercedes yourself as C&C's fee is only $500, very cheap. If it is an issue that still requires PML to resolve, as there are some issues that your PI car will still need PML for, then you will have to wait longer than a PML customer for the job to be done, but unless you have a lemon, these things dont happen very very often, and the chance of kenaing this I feel is a fair trade for tens of thousands of savings. This savings also give you enough margin to buy an AA membership (less than $100 a year, covers malaysia too) and pay for a night or 2 in malaysia. And the vast majority of owners will never kena this scenario in their entire lifetime.

Resale: In my opinion, PML's profit margin = my depreciation. Because your car's base scrap or sale price is not based on your purchase price, but based on age, OMV, and COE. Thus, PML's F10s may suffer just as big a depre hit when it comes for them to scrap, perhaps dare I say even more!

Regarding statistic, I feel its because the number of layman buyers far outstrip the number of learned buyers, as with every area and every industry. C3PO's analogy on computers is really apt. Knowledge = power = $$. People all over are earning $$ based on their knowledge. Thus also, buyers who know enough, and know where to look, will save money buying cars. Those who are not in the know, dont talk to enough people, dont bother to learn, dont bother to come in and read internet forums like BMWSG hehehe, will not have the knowledge, and they will happily buy PML's F10. For me, I liked the car, but I do not accept PML's pricing. Please note that PML is not wrong to price it like that. Any seller has the right to price their products according to what they feel like. Customers simply choose to accept the price and deal, or, not accept the price and go somewhere else. It's fair.

 

[megatron]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

Hi
Just to share my story with my current situation with a PI at Turf City.
I'd booked a F10 528 about 3 months ago. The initial delivery date is Dec/Jan. Then it was Jan/Feb and now its Feb/Mar. They gave excuses for the delay like bad winter weather, delivery queue very long. And now, supposedly the plant in Germany is closed until mid Jan...cannot get information.

Anyone heard similar excuses? I'm tired of waiting and contemplating to cancel the order.
Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Hi Richard Wong,
I guess it has to do with the high COE price and so PI cannot justify the cost of delivering the car to you. Hopefully, there is some kind of deposit refund policy protection in your purchase agreement. If not, good luck.

COE is too high to buy any new car now. Better wait for a year or so for COE to go down. I heard the COE supply cut will start this Feb for a few months only. Maybe when the election is near, COE supply will increase so that everyone will be happy to vote. In any case, I do not think current crazy COE price is sustainable for long. Better wait than to be burned.
Hope my comments will help you.
Megatron

 

[Racebred]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

I actually have experienced the mobile service, more than a few times in fact. And PML's service, some years back when I last needed them, was excellent. They responded quickly, the technicians are knowledgable, plus very polite some more. And if you're lucky enough for them to be carrying some spare parts unique to BMWs, parts that spoil most often, like fuel pumps, you can actually purchase them on the spot, the fella install for you on the spot (at my house, in one example) and you never need to drive into PML, take taxi home, wait a few days, collect car again. But other than that, there's nothing that AA cannot do. And if the part needed is not carried inside their vehicle, your car needs to be towed back to PML anyways. Sama sama.

 

[Richard Wong]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

Hi Megatron

Thanks for your reply.

- RIchard

 

[megatron]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

I have not bought a PI car before, but that does not mean I am opposed to it, nor will I never get a PI car in the future. There are some differences in opinion that I have with megatron's. Obviously there's no right or wrong, just a divergence of opinion.

Are you sure PI price is only S$20k lower than PML's? If yes, then I say the difference is not worth it. But given the OMV, I'm sure bigger differences can be pulled, and to make the entire exercise worthwhile.

Secondly, it's not about only just 1)saving money, 2)not being able to afford a PML BMW. It's about value. (for example) I can well afford a PML F10; it is well within my budget. However, I do not see the pricing of the product being in line with the value of the product. Thus, I cannot bring myself to buy it. It's a well-known fact that current cars sold by PML has industry-leading obscenely low levels of OMV. For some, they can take it, so they buy from PML. For others who cannot take it, and if they still want a BMW, they will simply take their business elsewhere.

Thirdly, its a well-known fact that smaller cap companies may under-deliver on their promise more often than big companies. Thus, buyer beware, do your homework, and I'm sure you'll be able to find a PI company that does an honest living, and do their best to deliver their promises. It's dangerous obviously, but an honest company will deliver the goods, and you can still enjoy the discount. I dont think they are mutually exclusive. If you cannot find such a company, then you pay top dollar for agent cars. I think that's fair, and that's life.

If you are afraid about COE going up and PI cannot deliver the car due to margins eroded by COE, then just bid COE on your own and buy a kosong car from PI. Simple.

On Specs: specs are different in different markets. There will be differences, but it doesnt mean its a lousy car. Look at the car individually, the specs that the PI can bring in, and if it tallies with the sale price, what's wrong. With region-specific specs, I'm sure the cost of retrofitting the GPS and bigger radiators do not amount to more than PML's profit margin. If you really want it to your specs, get the PI to factory order to your spec. Other than frequency-specific laws in different countries, you really can just get anything you want, perhaps even better than PML.

As for service, BMW is not a mystery car, like say if you PI a Spyker. More than enough competent workshops are around, such that you never really need to get your car adopted by PML. If adoption fee is a concern, you can try importing a Mercedes yourself as C&C's fee is only $500, very cheap. If it is an issue that still requires PML to resolve, as there are some issues that your PI car will still need PML for, then you will have to wait longer than a PML customer for the job to be done, but unless you have a lemon, these things dont happen very very often, and the chance of kenaing this I feel is a fair trade for tens of thousands of savings. This savings also give you enough margin to buy an AA membership (less than $100 a year, covers malaysia too) and pay for a night or 2 in malaysia. And the vast majority of owners will never kena this scenario in their entire lifetime.

Resale: In my opinion, PML's profit margin = my depreciation. Because your car's base scrap or sale price is not based on your purchase price, but based on age, OMV, and COE. Thus, PML's F10s may suffer just as big a depre hit when it comes for them to scrap, perhaps dare I say even more!

Regarding statistic, I feel its because the number of layman buyers far outstrip the number of learned buyers, as with every area and every industry. C3PO's analogy on computers is really apt. Knowledge = power = $$. People all over are earning $$ based on their knowledge. Thus also, buyers who know enough, and know where to look, will save money buying cars. Those who are not in the know, dont talk to enough people, dont bother to learn, dont bother to come in and read internet forums like BMWSG hehehe, will not have the knowledge, and they will happily buy PML's F10. For me, I liked the car, but I do not accept PML's pricing. Please note that PML is not wrong to price it like that. Any seller has the right to price their products according to what they feel like. Customers simply choose to accept the price and deal, or, not accept the price and go somewhere else. It's fair.

Why I quoted only S$20K different for PI and PML price for F10? These are based on the price figures I got from PI and PML. Of course, PI has argued that they have sunroof.....and PML does not have sunroof....but PML will argue back that PI spec does not come with keyless entry.....etc...very complicated and so I judge that at best PI spec is just as good or closed to PML spec. This is to be more fair for PI spec.

Lets put all the car spec and actual selling price aside and starts to think simple economic theory. If you are a PI and import F10 yourself, will you be so honest to sell at much much lower price than PML? You know well that every dollar higher you sell means extra dollar into your pocket. On the other hand, if PI selling price is too close to PML price, who will buy from PI then? So, basic economic theory can predict that PI will speculate their selling price to be not too cheap and not too close to PML price.

Also note that PML import car in massive shipment and thus economy of scale but PML will never pass that saving back to consumer but price competitively against Mercedes. For PI, there is no economy of scale and thus their cost is high but selling price cannot be too high. Its a tough profit squeeze position for PI and so dont expect PI to price too low. On a negative side of my thinking, I would expect PI to cut as much cost as possible to retain some profit such as importing a strip down super basic version of F10 to reduce their OMV figures to save some cost from registration tax. Maybe importing a super basic version of F10 without this and that features and then retrofit them in Singapore with after market solution. My F10 OMV from PML is very low at $39K+ but I have not seen any solid figure of PI's OMV. I have asked some PI for their F10 OMV but they said they don't know. So I cannot simply assume that PI OMV is higher then PML and complain that PML is making too much profit. If PI OMV is even lower than PML, PI might be making the same amount of profit as PML per car.

With all the pricing figures I got and information here and there, my feeling tells me its at most S$20K price different in actual.

Thats how I come out with this S$20K figure.
Megatron

 

[megatron]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

I hate to say this but your very 1st post in this forum:

1. your english is bad.

2. your praises of PML seem dis-proportionately higher, and most times, do not do justice to the PI route esp. when I assume that you have no prior experience with PI.

3. in the 2nd hand market, PML and PI cars make no diff if selling to an ah beng car salesman.

4. I think you haven't experience PML's service yet, good luck.

5. your english is bad and I really don't think your bad english deserves a F10.

My command of English does not determine if I am worthy to drive a F10, especially when I am driving one now.

If I am a wise PI, I would gracefully accept these market feedback as precious genuine market feedback for self improvement/correction, even if they may not sound sweet.

As for PML service, I have yet to experience their first service and so I do not know. From my prediction, its going to be very corporate working style and charge you money here and there. So, for a pre-start, I should not expect so much lower from PML service price but I do believe they can and must solve my car problem, if any. Anyway, my car is under warranty and so I am peaceful. As for the regular oil change, i guess they are fixed price package at about S$300+, I hope so, but please do not scare me with other figures as I am new. Please let me peacefully enjoy my virgin F10 first.

As for my England, I knew its weak and lack of ink, all the time. Have tried very hard to improve but I think its in the genes. So sorry for creating extra English words and grammar but I doubt they will ever be accepted into any dictionary.
Cheers and happy new year.
Megatron

 

[wt_know]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

damn good logic.

when my friend ask me where to buy PC. i direct them to Courts/Best Denki/Harvey (premium price) for idiot proof. go Funan could be too chim for them as the shop might ask them to upgrade this&that and every shop package the deal differently... hahaha

but for me, i can get the same specs PC at least 30% lower price

bottom line is if you are 'knowledgeable' and do homework, you find lobang for good price good stuff

If I know nuts about PCs, I will probably go Funan or Challenger or Harvey Norman and buy one off the shelf.
If I know a lot about PCs, even know how to dismantle and assemble one, i sure go SimLim and cheap cheap put one together myself.

PML is suitable for some buyers and PI suitable for others. No right or wrong, unless someone unfamiliar with BMW go to a wrong PI and ganna bullied and tok.

If I buy BMW again I will go PI. But if Audi or Merc I probably will go AD.

Yawn.......sleepy siah. Good night everyone.

 

[ElementalRealm]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

I have not bought a PI car before, but that does not mean I am opposed to it, nor will I never get a PI car in the future. There are some differences in opinion that I have with megatron's. Obviously there's no right or wrong, just a divergence of opinion.

Are you sure PI price is only S$20k lower than PML's? If yes, then I say the difference is not worth it. But given the OMV, I'm sure bigger differences can be pulled, and to make the entire exercise worthwhile.

Secondly, it's not about only just 1)saving money, 2)not being able to afford a PML BMW. It's about value. (for example) I can well afford a PML F10; it is well within my budget. However, I do not see the pricing of the product being in line with the value of the product. Thus, I cannot bring myself to buy it. It's a well-known fact that current cars sold by PML has industry-leading obscenely low levels of OMV. For some, they can take it, so they buy from PML. For others who cannot take it, and if they still want a BMW, they will simply take their business elsewhere.

Thirdly, its a well-known fact that smaller cap companies may under-deliver on their promise more often than big companies. Thus, buyer beware, do your homework, and I'm sure you'll be able to find a PI company that does an honest living, and do their best to deliver their promises. It's dangerous obviously, but an honest company will deliver the goods, and you can still enjoy the discount. I dont think they are mutually exclusive. If you cannot find such a company, then you pay top dollar for agent cars. I think that's fair, and that's life.

If you are afraid about COE going up and PI cannot deliver the car due to margins eroded by COE, then just bid COE on your own and buy a kosong car from PI. Simple.

On Specs: specs are different in different markets. There will be differences, but it doesnt mean its a lousy car. Look at the car individually, the specs that the PI can bring in, and if it tallies with the sale price, what's wrong. With region-specific specs, I'm sure the cost of retrofitting the GPS and bigger radiators do not amount to more than PML's profit margin. If you really want it to your specs, get the PI to factory order to your spec. Other than frequency-specific laws in different countries, you really can just get anything you want, perhaps even better than PML.

As for service, BMW is not a mystery car, like say if you PI a Spyker. More than enough competent workshops are around, such that you never really need to get your car adopted by PML. If adoption fee is a concern, you can try importing a Mercedes yourself as C&C's fee is only $500, very cheap. If it is an issue that still requires PML to resolve, as there are some issues that your PI car will still need PML for, then you will have to wait longer than a PML customer for the job to be done, but unless you have a lemon, these things dont happen very very often, and the chance of kenaing this I feel is a fair trade for tens of thousands of savings. This savings also give you enough margin to buy an AA membership (less than $100 a year, covers malaysia too) and pay for a night or 2 in malaysia. And the vast majority of owners will never kena this scenario in their entire lifetime.

Resale: In my opinion, PML's profit margin = my depreciation. Because your car's base scrap or sale price is not based on your purchase price, but based on age, OMV, and COE. Thus, PML's F10s may suffer just as big a depre hit when it comes for them to scrap, perhaps dare I say even more!

Regarding statistic, I feel its because the number of layman buyers far outstrip the number of learned buyers, as with every area and every industry. C3PO's analogy on computers is really apt. Knowledge = power = $$. People all over are earning $$ based on their knowledge. Thus also, buyers who know enough, and know where to look, will save money buying cars. Those who are not in the know, dont talk to enough people, dont bother to learn, dont bother to come in and read internet forums like BMWSG hehehe, will not have the knowledge, and they will happily buy PML's F10. For me, I liked the car, but I do not accept PML's pricing. Please note that PML is not wrong to price it like that. Any seller has the right to price their products according to what they feel like. Customers simply choose to accept the price and deal, or, not accept the price and go somewhere else. It's fair.

Well said bro! More to learn from old bird..

 

[wt_know]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

this is damn right. knowledge = power = $$
my wife complain to me that her company pay good $ for a software installation where the technician only click Next 2 times, enter 2 x IP address and a few more clicks ... hahaha
she said she also can do that just because she know how to surf facebook .... wahahaha
anyway, everyone got his own talent & knowledge and use it for his/her own good

Knowledge = power = $$. People all over are earning $$ based on their knowledge. Thus also, buyers who know enough, and know where to look, will save money buying cars. Those who are not in the know, dont talk to enough people, dont bother to learn, dont bother to come in and read internet forums like BMWSG hehehe, will not have the knowledge, and they will happily buy PML's F10.

 

[ElementalRealm]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

Back in 2005, my PML E90 had OMV of 42K, and selling price of 132K. Dealer's margin worked out just under 20K. Obscene, but just about bearable in my books.

In 2009, I self-imported a new Boxster with OMV of 81K, and spent

 

[longhorn]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

damn good logic.

when my friend ask me where to buy PC. i direct them to Courts/Best Denki/Harvey (premium price) for idiot proof. go Funan could be too chim for them as the shop might ask them to upgrade this&that and every shop package the deal differently... hahaha

but for me, i can get the same specs PC at least 30% lower price

bottom line is if you are 'knowledgeable' and do homework, you find lobang for good price good stuff

No right or wrong but for me there is fundamental flaw with the PC vs car comparison. Example if a PC costs $1500 from Harvey Norman, and I can save 30% and get it for $1000 at DIY Sim Lim, I will give it a shot. Worse case if I get a lemon and have to write off, fortunately I can afford to just "waste" $1000 and walk away wiser.

But an F10 is $250000. That's serious money for me... and nothing beats peace of mind in this situation.

 

[wt_know]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

ok. i agree that peace of mind = pml = premium.
if one wants to save $$ = do homework + stress
actually, what racebred said sums it up. it's all about individual "principle" (this is the deal breaker) .

No right or wrong but for me there is fundamental flaw with the PC vs car comparison. Example if a PC costs $1500 from Harvey Norman, and I can save 30% and get it for $1000 at DIY Sim Lim, I will give it a shot. Worse case if I get a lemon and have to write off, fortunately I can afford to just "waste" $1000 and walk away wiser.

But an F10 is $250000. That's serious money for me... and nothing beats peace of mind in this situation.

 

[delrosa81]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

I tink hor, pardon my lousy english, if you like to buy from PML then buy and enjoy your car. If you like to buy from PI, then buy and enjoy your car.

I seem to see more of such posts nowadays, when ppl take sides, some say PML better, some say PI better. This is of a personal choice isnt it? If I wan to buy a car, I would not just read from forum, I would go down to the actual showroom or place to look at the car, get a feel of the car, know the proper selling price, understand what kinda specs that the car is equipped with, etc.

Would anyone just believe 100% what ppl on the WWW says ? I for sure don't, as we take such info and use it as knowledge or for reference only. We use this "reference" to make a more informed choice or to prevent ourselves to be cheated. But of cos we have to go to a few different ppl to find out the facts to ensure the info we have is indeed correct.

If U have any issues with either PML or PI, then you can raise it here, ask for advise, etc. But before you make any post, please make sure you have your facts, there were history of ppl getting sued due to defamation issues. So pls...cover your backside.

Comparison between AD and PI is a never ending story, so buy from whoever you LIKE and there is no need to post in public forums to tell ppl who to buy from. Its everyone's own choice. As the saying goes, one man's meat is another man's poison. So just relax and enjoy what you think have made a right and good choice

Cheers and have a great week ahead!

 

[C3P0]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

We can start writing the script for Transformers 4 "Optimus Prime vs Megatron - The war between PML and PI". ke ke.
Sorry for OT.

 

[toiletsiao]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

Secondly, it's not about only just 1)saving money, 2)not being able to afford a PML BMW. It's about value. (for example) I can well afford a PML F10; it is well within my budget. However, I do not see the pricing of the product being in line with the value of the product. Thus, I cannot bring myself to buy it. It's a well-known fact that current cars sold by PML has industry-leading obscenely low levels of OMV. For some, they can take it, so they buy from PML. For others who cannot take it, and if they still want a BMW, they will simply take their business elsewhere.

+1

I fit into this scenario...recently I bought an E93 320(FL) from a PI. Initially i went to PML, I got a shock on the OMV of the car offered...believe it or not.. its 35k OMV selling for 237k..on top of that they are giving me the Nov 2010 OPEN CAT COE @ 40+k (if i want instant delivery)gosh...zzzz .. This too much of a "bad" deal for me..

No choice i decided to get my car from P.I .... based on my experience the whole process and paperwork done is quite transparent...I took existing stock...Car is delivered to me within a week of booking...and because i took the guaranteed COE package..the PI secured the 72k COE..i didnt top up a single cent...surprising the OMV of my car is 40+k nearly 10k more than PML's but the selling price is 18% lower..i think this PI has offered better value compared to PML ...

Thats just me...warranty and support issues is another matter..but i think should be ok..if fellow members can buy 335's and M's from PI...definately the support and cover is there...
________
MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARY CROWN VALLEY PARKWAY LAGUNA NIGUEL CA

 

[davidtch]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

If I know nuts about PCs, I will probably go Funan or Challenger or Harvey Norman and buy one off the shelf.
If I know a lot about PCs, even know how to dismantle and assemble one, i sure go SimLim and cheap cheap put one together myself.

If i buy computer, i will apple. Everywhere same price. Somemore, if i use MacBook @ Starbuck, ppl from far far away can c already.

My command of English does not determine if I am worthy to drive a F10, especially when I am driving one now.

If I am a wise PI, I would gracefully accept these market feedback as precious genuine market feedback for self improvement/correction, even if they may not sound sweet.

As for PML service, I have yet to experience their first service and so I do not know. From my prediction, its going to be very corporate working style and charge you money here and there. So, for a pre-start, I should not expect so much lower from PML service price but I do believe they can and must solve my car problem, if any. Anyway, my car is under warranty and so I am peaceful. As for the regular oil change, i guess they are fixed price package at about S$300+, I hope so, but please do not scare me with other figures as I am new. Please let me peacefully enjoy my virgin F10 first.

As for my England, I knew its weak and lack of ink, all the time. Have tried very hard to improve but I think its in the genes. So sorry for creating extra English words and grammar but I doubt they will ever be accepted into any dictionary.
Cheers and happy new year.
Megatron

Pls read this:
F10 523i problem to date

 

[kenntona]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

I have just got my F10 from PML 3weeks ago. My advise is never to buy from any PI

Much more convincing argument or proposition if you had gotten your car from PI and then advised against buying from PI. There is perhaps more merit if your argument is against PML.

It makes me wonder what's your agenda making a claim against PI in general, or a pro-authorised agent statement, without a basis, unless you've had a bad experience with a few PIs.

1) In case you need PML support after buying from PI, you will need to pay S$30K initial fees to PML before they will ever start talking to you and give you some difficulties here and there.

What did you get this information? Which PI told you so?

I bought from a PI, and this did not happen. I know a cluster of forumers here who has bought from PI, but I have not heard anyone paying initial fees. Is this a fact across the board, or just a hearsay? If such initial fee has been priced into the selling price, then it is irrelevant.

2) The final effective selling price of F10 between PI and PML is at most S$20K different. If you are still looking so hard at this S$20K money, I think F10 may not be your comfortable target. Driving BMW, especially F10 and above, is all about throwing money into the drain for that extra lifestyle. Its very expensive every month and stingy me is still coming to term if I have made the correct commitment. So, if you do not have a deep pocket, better stay on dry land. Expensive BMW will give you that extra lifestyle comfort but the heavy financing could make your undies feel cold and wet if you do not have that kind of pocket.

I think it is logically flawed to assume that seeking any quantum saved from a PI car tantamounts to tight financial status ("comfortable", "expensive", "correct commitment") or leveraged situation ("heavy financing") of the buyer. I bought my car from Vincar at 203K in 2007. PML model was doing $245-248K. I saved a huge sum and ploughed savings into my miniscule mod funds, a little at a time. After I spent on my mod funds, I realise I could have paid for a PML 335 coupe now !!!

It is about valuation, and how much savings you can derive from the deal. I bought used watches as well, but of course I have heard the argument that I should buy new when I can afford. I think that's crap. The valuation model in every buyer's mind is different. You wanna pay premium for peace of mind/insurance, be my guest. But it does not mean that those who can sniff out a better deal are doing so because of their presumed shallow pockets. It might make you feel good that you could "afford" a PML car, but it is simply fallacious from a discussion standpoint.

3) F10 from PI and PML is different product. For PI, I heard there are UK spec (for four sessions) and Hong Kong Spec (for asia hot climate). I asked PI if there will be Park Assist feature, they replied they will never bring in any of these complicated/advance features. For the Hong Kong Spec, I asked PI if it comes with keyless entery and they NO! I must say the keyless entery feature is very high value to me and perhape also to many other potiential buyers. From this point onward, I seriously started to doubt the car spec of PI and need not ask any further.

Do your homework, given the influx of PIs around. You do your homework, you will find your good deal. Else the PIs would not have grown in penetration. Your last sentence is indicative of your lack of research, hence landing on PML for a lazy sense of comfort.

That does not tantamount to a correct decision on a PML car, nor does it discredit a PI car.

4) Different service. Take note that you are not simply buying a physical car. You are actually buying a Driving Experience. The physical car is just 50% of the total experience. There other 50% will comes from the total service such as the sales service (PML never worry about getting COE or whats the COE price....I think they get the COE supply first before selling their cars). You will have alot of issues with PI for COE alone. How about the after sales service? Have you read about that BMW mobile service...in case your new car breakdown in Malaysia....PML will arrange/pay for your transportation to continue your jorney, hotel stay if they cannot repair your car in 4hours...etc? Please read from PML website as I am not their staff.
O yes, if you talk to a PI salesman about F10 service support, they will surely say no problem, very good.....etc and you will have to put your guards down to trust him. Well, if something is real and factual, there is no need to trust in the first place.

PML service is an oxymoronic phrase. I cannot agree that PML is top-notch. This is my third BMW, but first PI. I did not have good experience with PML, and I believe if you have read this forum long enough, many have felt the same. Still, this should not a generalised opinion that PML's service is necessarily bad. But the reverse cannot be said to be true as well.

Your COE example is so flawed. Try to compare in timeline perspective - a PML car (example E92) in 2008, in 2009 and in 2010. It is so obvious that OMV has dropped drastically against rising prices. Why so? COE prices embedded? Is that necessarily a plus point on your COE availability issue? You could well be paying more to secure your COE, not a "service factor" from a distribution standpoint. You pay more, but ignoring the fact that these are priced in. You think you need these - COE securing, transportation/hotel stay in cases of breakdown, pay for it. I would not call you a sucker for choosing to do so. But if other could sniff a better deal from the PI market, perhaps from a no frill angle, do not black-label them too.

5) Resales value. In case you were to sell your BMW in the future, potiential buyer will surely ask PI or PML? Don't you think so?

Disagree, unless you wanna sell your ride in 1-2 years time. You buy high, you try to sell high. I buy low, I can sell low. After 3 years, when the warranty lapses, what's the difference between a PML car and a PI car? I see many older PML car owners going to BVO, J4C and Boss for maintenance.

So if you could do the same instead of relying on PML, your security factor will last as long as only three years !!!

If your PML F10 has persistent issues within the 3 years, you will be hammering BMW instead of kissing the feet of PML.

6) Statistic. There are always good reasons for something to be extreamly popular. How many BMW did PI sold vs PML? Do you think there are many PI BMW cars on the road?

Wrong, again !!! Over the years, I am amazed by the numbers of PI cars in this forum. It has grown so much I could not fathom. Statistics, if you have any, and intepreted you way, will probably show PML holding majority market share on BMWs. That's not the point. I bet my organ with you inch-for-inch that over the last 3-5 years, the PI BMWs have grown, if not exponentially, at the expense of PML. In the E46 days, hardly any M3 was under PI scheme. Now, the E92 M3, there are plenty. The 335 was another example.

I can assure you few years back, there are hardly any PI BMW here. Now, a handful of the active forumers are PI car owners. You will be surprised.