Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

[wt_know]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

you are right that coupe, cabrio, roadster, etc ... PI has an edge in pricing
but, F10 supposely a FAMILY SEDAN (basic 523i only, not even 535i) and yet PML vs PI pricing is shocking ya

I think for sedans esp base models, PML is very competitive in their pricing against PIs and also other marques. The little savings may not justify the PI route, esp for those on regular promotions in the papers.

But for lifestyle and higher-end models (2 doors), PML markup the prices much higher. Huge savings from PI should cover any repairs even without warranty.

PI that engage reputable workshops to service their warranty should be able to handle most repairs works. For turbo and cabrio (esp hardtops), I'm still more confident with PML workshops for the volume of such models they handle.

 

[ac323]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

Hi
Just to share my story with my current situation with a PI at Turf City.
I'd booked a F10 528 about 3 months ago. The initial delivery date is Dec/Jan. Then it was Jan/Feb and now its Feb/Mar. They gave excuses for the delay like bad winter weather, delivery queue very long. And now, supposedly the plant in Germany is closed until mid Jan...cannot get information.

Anyone heard similar excuses? I'm tired of waiting and contemplating to cancel the order.
Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Hi Richard,

i think to purchase from PI, only they have ready stock otherwise abit tough......my friend bought an E89 last year also same same.....wait, wait, wait, wait and wait.......


* just have to wait
cheers

 

[wt_know]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

ready stock is the BEST.
stress free and you can see and touch the 'actual' car that you are going to buy ... hehe
you can go PML to test drive until you shiok and then go over to PI to purchase ... wahahaha

Hi Richard,

i think to purchase from PI, only they have ready stock otherwise abit tough......my friend bought an E89 last year also same same.....wait, wait, wait, wait and wait.......


* just have to wait
cheers

 

[Racebred]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

I surrender. You guys have your own opinion and its part of human rights.
Megatron retreats.

bro and so do you too. You're also entitled to your opinions. This is a discussion forum and you can see almost everybody is discussing on the points you made only, and nothing is personal.

In the same vein (without sarcasm) PML is perfectly entitled to run their business the way they want, the service the way they want, and the price the way they want too, and I respect that. Its a free world...

There's one more lobang, which is just no-frills importing. You single out a car you want, you spec it, and some importers will, for a flat fee, see 5k, or 20k, settle all the necessary paperwork and bring in the car for you. Perhaps financing will be a bit trickier, and you may or may not have to fork out the necessary monies to downpay the overseas car seller first. But this, in my opinion, is the ultimate savings route. (not counting you doing all the paperwork yourself and saving the 5k)

the major component cost of the car will simply be omv + ARF + Customs duty + GST + COE. So a 35k OMV car can be on the road for below $160k. Sui boh? A bit troublesome but an above forummer has already done it.

 

[DriveAllDay]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

bro and so do you too. You're also entitled to your opinions. This is a discussion forum and you can see almost everybody is discussing on the points you made only, and nothing is personal.

In the same vein (without sarcasm) PML is perfectly entitled to run their business the way they want, the service the way they want, and the price the way they want too, and I respect that. Its a free world...

There's one more lobang, which is just no-frills importing. You single out a car you want, you spec it, and some importers will, for a flat fee, see 5k, or 20k, settle all the necessary paperwork and bring in the car for you. Perhaps financing will be a bit trickier, and you may or may not have to fork out the necessary monies to downpay the overseas car seller first. But this, in my opinion, is the ultimate savings route. (not counting you doing all the paperwork yourself and saving the 5k)

the major component cost of the car will simply be omv + ARF + Customs duty + GST + COE. So a 35k OMV car can be on the road for below $160k. Sui boh? A bit troublesome but an above forummer has already done it.

+1

Did the self-import route. No middleman, no PI -- saved about 25% ($70K), and still enjoy 2-yr manufacturer warranty.

 

[zorro]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

+1 Million....Can share in more detail on the process of self-importing? How much you reckon I can save on a car like Audi TTS (OMV around 40+k?). How does the manufacturer warranty works? Thanks.

+1

Did the self-import route. No middleman, no PI -- saved about 25% ($70K), and still enjoy 2-yr manufacturer warranty.

 

[Racebred]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

hi zorro, do a bit of search for some older threads, and there will be quite a lot of pointers there for you to read up on. Thing is, as time goes by, ADs have been appealing to their principals not to allow backdoor entries, and the principals (one example is BMW) has prohibited UK dealers from selling straight to customers living in singapore. But a sidedoor-to-the-backdoor way is still possible. It may involve registering the car in UK and deregistering it within 3 days then shipping it to singapore. Unless you have a UK address, the process can be quite ardous. Therefore you might want to sub this entire process out to people or companies to do it for you. Regarding this, I am not too sure, but there could be free-agents out there, or people doing it on the side, that will process the entire thing for you for a fee. I have no idea how much they'll charge for the work, but anything up to 5-10k is reasonable in my opinion. The caveat is of course the guy needs to be trustworthy, and also this is a cash exercise. You need to have enough cash to pay for your car. This method undercuts the PI. Is it worth it? Well if I can save about 100k for a regular car, and up to 250k for a pricey car, I'll do it. You'll even have enough savings left over to fly over to the host country several times to look at your new car and check authenticity. And because the car is properly registered in the host country in the first place (for eg UK), the international warrenty stands (on paper). How our ADs here react to your unit when you do need to claim warrenty is another matter altogether though. But if I have saved $250k upfront, I think the trouble, and non-existent warrenty coverage, is more than worth it.

A sidedoor-to-the-sidedoor-to-the-backdoor approach is even possible. That is, to go to UK and buy from a UK grey-import. LAGI CHEAPER. These cars come from say netherlands, etc. But they all come from the same factory anyways, so personally I dont really mind. But if you dio a lemon, you're doomed. In that case, drive the car for a year, and resell it in singapore for a profit. Repeat the process again. Every year drive free car, new car, and make money. Do this if you do not have a day job.

Personally, I'd rather buy from AD. Coz I am super lazy when it comes to car spoil and I choose to pay money (ie. AD list price) for aftersales support.

 

[MW]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

I bet your E46 interior the panels are peeling or peeled liao.

 

[zorro]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

Hi Racebred, Appreciate your effort in giving me an insight on the approach to self-importing of cars. Well to me if the nett saving is significant i.e > 80k for a car like Audi TTS then its worth taking the plunge to import your own car despite all the risk and extra effort required.

Will do some research on my own. Like you, I am also quite lazy to go thru the hazzle and would surely go direct to the AD or PI if the saving is not significant. Btw with the current sterling pound weakness against SGD, I believe you can get good deal out there...

If we follow the earlier argument, I must be the poorest guy who cannot afford a good continental car and still trying to own one since the really rich one will get from AD, the not so rich one from PI and the beggar will import his own car...

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hi zorro, do a bit of search for some older threads, and there will be quite a lot of pointers there for you to read up on. Thing is, as time goes by, ADs have been appealing to their principals not to allow backdoor entries, and the principals (one example is BMW) has prohibited UK dealers from selling straight to customers living in singapore. But a sidedoor-to-the-backdoor way is still possible. It may involve registering the car in UK and deregistering it within 3 days then shipping it to singapore. Unless you have a UK address, the process can be quite ardous. Therefore you might want to sub this entire process out to people or companies to do it for you. Regarding this, I am not too sure, but there could be free-agents out there, or people doing it on the side, that will process the entire thing for you for a fee. I have no idea how much they'll charge for the work, but anything up to 5-10k is reasonable in my opinion. The caveat is of course the guy needs to be trustworthy, and also this is a cash exercise. You need to have enough cash to pay for your car. This method undercuts the PI. Is it worth it? Well if I can save about 100k for a regular car, and up to 250k for a pricey car, I'll do it. You'll even have enough savings left over to fly over to the host country several times to look at your new car and check authenticity. And because the car is properly registered in the host country in the first place (for eg UK), the international warrenty stands (on paper). How our ADs here react to your unit when you do need to claim warrenty is another matter altogether though. But if I have saved $250k upfront, I think the trouble, and non-existent warrenty coverage, is more than worth it.

A sidedoor-to-the-sidedoor-to-the-backdoor approach is even possible. That is, to go to UK and buy from a UK grey-import. LAGI CHEAPER. These cars come from say netherlands, etc. But they all come from the same factory anyways, so personally I dont really mind. But if you dio a lemon, you're doomed. In that case, drive the car for a year, and resell it in singapore for a profit. Repeat the process again. Every year drive free car, new car, and make money. Do this if you do not have a day job.

Personally, I'd rather buy from AD. Coz I am super lazy when it comes to car spoil and I choose to pay money (ie. AD list price) for aftersales support.

 

[DriveAllDay]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

Hi Racebred, Appreciate your effort in giving me an insight on the approach to self-importing of cars. Well to me if the nett saving is significant i.e > 80k for a car like Audi TTS then its worth taking the plunge to import your own car despite all the risk and extra effort required.

Will do some research on my own. Like you, I am also quite lazy to go thru the hussle and would surely go direct to the AD or PI if the saving is not significant. Btw with the current sterling pound weakness against SGD, I believe you can get good deal out there...

If we follow the earlier argument, I must be the poorest guy who cannot afford a good continental car and still trying to own one since the really rich one will get from AD, the not so rich one from PI and the beggar will import his own car...

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+1 to above. Additional points

1. UK dealers are being told to not sell direct to singapore buyers, so window is closing
2. You can still register then de-register in UK, BUT You pay VAT first, then claim parts of it
3. Buying direct from UK AD is quite safe; they won't risk reputation in cheating you
4. Buying from UK independent dealers voids manufacturer warranty
5. You do need to have a UK address (friend's will do)

In terms of local AD reaction, I can only speak about Stuggart. They don't like it, but they have been totally professional and pleasant. Looked into my car promptly, and FOC. Very happy with them.

To calculate cost: By direct export scheme:
[(List price/1.2 VAT refund + 3000 freight )* 2.3 SG taxes)] + COE + 1000 others

Amount you save depends on exchange and prevailing COE. Racebred, I am not sure if 100K-250K savings possible (unless you are talking about 500K-SGD1M car). I think you can assume about 25-30% savings if done right at the right time.


Good luck.

 

[zorro]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

Just did a quick calculation.

From Audi UK AD website: Audi TTS Roadster (S-tronic) retails at 39050 pounds
From Premium Auto same car selling at SGD 280K
From your formula my cost of importing the car is SGD 227.6k with exchange rate of 1pounds = 2SGD and COE of 70K

So the nett saving is about SGD 52.4k but not sure of other hidden cost like insurance etc.

If UK have further discount ..then it probably can hit the 80k mark saving. The big issue is still the exuberant COE prices.....

But PI Vincar is retailing at SGD246,988 with guranteed COE..so only save about 20k compared to PI

+1 to above. Additional points

To calculate cost: By direct export scheme:
[(List price/1.2 VAT refund + 3000 freight )* 2.3 SG taxes)] + COE + 1000 others


Good luck.

 

[DriveAllDay]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

Just did a quick calculation.

From Audi UK AD website: Audi TTS Roadster (S-tronic) retails at 39050 pounds
From Premium Auto same car selling at SGD 280K
From your formula my cost of importing the car is SGD 227.6k with exchange rate of 1pounds = 2SGD and COE of 70K

So the nett saving is about SGD 52.4k but not sure of other hidden cost like insurance etc.

If UK have further discount ..then it probably can hit the 80k mark saving. The big issue is still the exuberant COE prices.....

But PI Vincar is retailing at SGD246,988 with guranteed COE..so only save about 20k compared to PI

PI will have much lower OMV -- that's how they get around the issue. Don't ask me what they do to deflate their invoice price -- but they do. Buying from Audi UK gets you around $80K OMV. I doubt you will get any more than $60K OMV from PI.

Freight insurance, if you want it (I didn't), is a few hundred SGD, and is subjected to 130% tax in Singapore. Other hidden costs (like getting a freight forwarder to do TradeNet registration, LTA inspection, ERP IV unit) are small -- around $500.

Oh one more thing -- you have to make sure that the speedometer is in km/h, not mph. LTA is sticky with that.

If Audi agrees to Direct Export scheme, your savings of about $50K is possible. You still enjoy the manufacturer warranty.

 

[megatron]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

Hi Racebird,
Semi self importing is definately super siok but for my next car few years later. Do keep everyone posted. Maybe next time we can semi self import by clicking at amazon.com and then go and buy warranty coverage from outside workshop. That will be super super great. As of now, PML is simply too fat and PI still have not work hard enough.
Megatron

 

[kenntona]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

Same advice to all buyers - do your homework. There are so many options - open your mind and do the sums. A fixated mind cannot see the other options.

 

[zorro]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

Yeah, I want to learn how to deflate the OMV value without being called up by CPIB or sent to jail...Me very open minded type....Who cares about the Performance Motor Limited wording/logo printed on your number plate holder..I rather have a slogan that says "If you can read this words, pls fark off" while saving a cool sum of $$$.

 

[Racebred]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

yes at one point i was looking at a sports car with a higher amount, so the savings were about 250k. My take is that you can do this if the absolute savings (not relative savings) is high enough. Since the trouble to bring in say your own ferrari or your own picanto is almost exactly the same, but the savings need to be consistent with the trouble of doing it yourself. The first time is probably the most difficult, since you will need to do lots of troubleshooting due to inexperience, and to expect lots of delays. You take on risks too, since if there's any major cockup there's almost no recourse. Plus, you need cash on hand. Else, I say this is easily the best way to car ownership in spore.

 

[davidtch]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

Who cares about the Performance Motor Limited wording/logo printed on your number plate holder..I rather have a slogan that says "If you can read this words, pls fark off" while saving a cool sum of $$$.

I changed my no plate holder to "Ultimate Driving Machine". Not acting as mobile ad poster.

 

[megatron]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

Yeah, I want to learn how to deflate the OMV value without being called up by CPIB or sent to jail...Me very open minded type....Who cares about the Performance Motor Limited wording/logo printed on your number plate holder..I rather have a slogan that says "If you can read this words, pls fark off" while saving a cool sum of $$$.

I have heard some rumors that a very big company of other market sector (non-car market) does this and could be similar.
The manufacturer is a European company and corporate tax in Europe is like 50% and in Singapore, the corporate tax is only 17%. That manufacturer has a local subsidiary in Singapore(100% or majority owned by the European manufacturer). So if the manufacturer sell their product to Singapore subsidiary at very low price (just marginally above the actual production cost), they could almost transfer all profit to Singapore for Singapore corporate taxation. The huge profit made by Singapore subsidiary can then be returned to the manufacturer in Europe as profit after tax and thus avoid the 50% corporate tax in Europe. In all, the European manufacturer will save alot of tax money to themselves and can be used for bonus expenses.

There is no law breaking at all. It a willing seller (the European Manufacturer) and a willing importer (the Singapore subsidiary) and no governments can interfere with their internal commercial affair. All sales quotation, OMV invoice, documentations....are originally from the manufacturer and there is no fraudulent alteration.

You see the picture now?
Please note here that I am not suggesting that any car importer is doing this. All are rumor talks only. All disclaimer applied. All similar case are purely coincidental. Don't sue me.
Megatron

 

[leebmer]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

Disclaimer: i am not good at this stuff on sale between related entities...sharing my views for discussion sake !

what i understand is any sales done between the two related entities should be done at arm's length...the question perhaps is at what arm's length...

 

[davidtch]

Re: Worth buying new F10 523 from PI?

I have heard some rumors that a very big company of other market sector (non-car market) does this and could be similar.
The manufacturer is a European company and corporate tax in Europe is like 50% and in Singapore, the corporate tax is only 17%. That manufacturer has a local subsidiary in Singapore(100% or majority owned by the European manufacturer). So if the manufacturer sell their product to Singapore subsidiary at very low price (just marginally above the actual production cost), they could almost transfer all profit to Singapore for Singapore corporate taxation. The huge profit made by Singapore subsidiary can then be returned to the manufacturer in Europe as profit after tax and thus avoid the 50% corporate tax in Europe. In all, the European manufacturer will save alot of tax money to themselves and can be used for bonus expenses.

There is no law breaking at all. It a willing seller (the European Manufacturer) and a willing importer (the Singapore subsidiary) and no governments can interfere with their internal commercial affair. All sales quotation, OMV invoice, documentations....are originally from the manufacturer and there is no fraudulent alteration.

You see the picture now?
Please note here that I am not suggesting that any car importer is doing this. All are rumor talks only. All disclaimer applied. All similar case are purely coincidental. Don't sue me.
Megatron

Transfer pricing is a sensitive issue especially in Germany. No big company 1 2 be investigated by Tax Authority all the time.