Anyone driven the new Porsche 991 C2S
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Re: Anyone driven the new Porsche 991 C2S
I bought the Vantage after the 997 pdk and fiddling around with the Gallardo for a bit (I didn't like the Lambo). To be honest the Aston is definitely not as technically competent as the Porsche nor the M3. Neither is it as powerful or fast. But the Aston looks fantastic, and sounds amazing. The Aston (has to be manual; the automated manual is rubbish) is well balanced but does rely a lot more on the driver's skills when pushed, in so far as electronic aids are concerned. It may not be the fastest, but it is a good driver's car. Let's be frank, you don't really buy an Aston because it's got the best 0-100 timing or top speed. Essentially, the Aston is about looks (interior and exterior) and feel when driving as well as being seen in one- it does make you feel rather "James Bond", plus the chicks dig it....LOL!
The M3 is not as flashy or pretty, but is a better everyday car (4 seats, comfort mode is pretty comfortable, DCT, etc), and is also a better sports car in M mode. Put in an akra exhaust and it sounds as fierce as the Aston.
To be honest, I sold the Aston because I drove the 458. After the 458, the Aston felt like a saloon rather than a sports car (as would almost all other cars after you drive a 458.
So basically, moral of the story is: if you're looking to buy a sports car, don't test the 458 unless you are looking to buy one! LOL!
Physicist;864302 said:
I bought the Vantage after the 997 pdk and fiddling around with the Gallardo for a bit (I didn't like the Lambo). To be honest the Aston is definitely not as technically competent as the Porsche nor the M3. Neither is it as powerful or fast. But the Aston looks fantastic, and sounds amazing. The Aston (has to be manual; the automated manual is rubbish) is well balanced but does rely a lot more on the driver's skills when pushed, in so far as electronic aids are concerned. It may not be the fastest, but it is a good driver's car. Let's be frank, you don't really buy an Aston because it's got the best 0-100 timing or top speed. Essentially, the Aston is about looks (interior and exterior) and feel when driving as well as being seen in one- it does make you feel rather "James Bond", plus the chicks dig it....LOL!
The M3 is not as flashy or pretty, but is a better everyday car (4 seats, comfort mode is pretty comfortable, DCT, etc), and is also a better sports car in M mode. Put in an akra exhaust and it sounds as fierce as the Aston.
To be honest, I sold the Aston because I drove the 458. After the 458, the Aston felt like a saloon rather than a sports car (as would almost all other cars after you drive a 458.
So basically, moral of the story is: if you're looking to buy a sports car, don't test the 458 unless you are looking to buy one! LOL!
Re: Anyone driven the new Porsche 991 C2S
Sorry mate, gotta disagree with you. The 911s of old were great. Porsche is first and foremost a business, and as a business they have to maximize profits, especially with the buy-out from VW. Most 911 buyers today (and you gotta admit the numbers are increasing like crazy) are not looking for an out and out sports car. The majority are middle age men looking for a sporty car, with a heritage and brand like Porsche that they can drive comfortably on a daily basis, and perhaps push once in a while. Which is why I guarantee if you drive a 991 and a 993, I am sure you will love the feel of a 993 way better even though it is less powerful (assuming you are a piston-head).
Further, unless you've actually owned a recent 911, or frequently drive one on the limit, I assure you the chassis has intrinsic problems such as front axle hop, which is pretty damn scary unless you are a pretty good racing driver. They have resolved this problem to a much larger extent on the 991, but they've also added in rubbish like electric steering etc. which has made the car feel more like a grand tourer.
Most true Porsche lovers buy 911s precisely because they like the oddities of the 911 and the steering feel. It makes the car unique and have "soul". Take all that out with the 991 and what do you have left........?
I'm not saying the M3 is better than the 911. It's a pointless argument. I love the older 911s and the current GT3/2 range. I just feel that the 991 carrera and carrera S just doesn't feel that special anymore.
You really want a kick-ass car, buy a GTR. You'd probably be able to take on any M, Porsche, Ferrari, or Lambo. I just can't bear to be seen driving one. Again, to each his own
Niva;864393 said:
Sorry mate, gotta disagree with you. The 911s of old were great. Porsche is first and foremost a business, and as a business they have to maximize profits, especially with the buy-out from VW. Most 911 buyers today (and you gotta admit the numbers are increasing like crazy) are not looking for an out and out sports car. The majority are middle age men looking for a sporty car, with a heritage and brand like Porsche that they can drive comfortably on a daily basis, and perhaps push once in a while. Which is why I guarantee if you drive a 991 and a 993, I am sure you will love the feel of a 993 way better even though it is less powerful (assuming you are a piston-head).
Further, unless you've actually owned a recent 911, or frequently drive one on the limit, I assure you the chassis has intrinsic problems such as front axle hop, which is pretty damn scary unless you are a pretty good racing driver. They have resolved this problem to a much larger extent on the 991, but they've also added in rubbish like electric steering etc. which has made the car feel more like a grand tourer.
Most true Porsche lovers buy 911s precisely because they like the oddities of the 911 and the steering feel. It makes the car unique and have "soul". Take all that out with the 991 and what do you have left........?
I'm not saying the M3 is better than the 911. It's a pointless argument. I love the older 911s and the current GT3/2 range. I just feel that the 991 carrera and carrera S just doesn't feel that special anymore.
You really want a kick-ass car, buy a GTR. You'd probably be able to take on any M, Porsche, Ferrari, or Lambo. I just can't bear to be seen driving one. Again, to each his own
clar
Well-Known Member
Re: Anyone driven the new Porsche 991 C2S
If my wife reads this, i swear she would think i wrote it
I was under-whelmed by the steering feel during my test drive. That to me, is prob the defining attribute of a Porsche. With that gone, it's hard to find a reason going for it at least for me.
nebur;864414 said:Sorry mate, gotta disagree with you. The 911s of old were great. Porsche is first and foremost a business, and as a business they have to maximize profits, especially with the buy-out from VW. Most 911 buyers today (and you gotta admit the numbers are increasing like crazy) are not looking for an out and out sports car. The majority are middle age men looking for a sporty car, with a heritage and brand like Porsche that they can drive comfortably on a daily basis, and perhaps push once in a while. Which is why I guarantee if you drive a 991 and a 993, I am sure you will love the feel of a 993 way better even though it is less powerful (assuming you are a piston-head).
Further, unless you've actually owned a recent 911, or frequently drive one on the limit, I assure you the chassis has intrinsic problems such as front axle hop, which is pretty damn scary unless you are a pretty good racing driver. They have resolved this problem to a much larger extent on the 991, but they've also added in rubbish like electric steering etc. which has made the car feel more like a grand tourer.
Most true Porsche lovers buy 911s precisely because they like the oddities of the 911 and the steering feel. It makes the car unique and have "soul". Take all that out with the 991 and what do you have left........?
I'm not saying the M3 is better than the 911. It's a pointless argument. I love the older 911s and the current GT3/2 range. I just feel that the 991 carrera and carrera S just doesn't feel that special anymore.
You really want a kick-ass car, buy a GTR. You'd probably be able to take on any M, Porsche, Ferrari, or Lambo. I just can't bear to be seen driving one. Again, to each his own
If my wife reads this, i swear she would think i wrote it
I was under-whelmed by the steering feel during my test drive. That to me, is prob the defining attribute of a Porsche. With that gone, it's hard to find a reason going for it at least for me.
Re: Anyone driven the new Porsche 991 C2S
All car manufacturers are profit maximising organisations, esp BMW. Just note their introduction of M Performance series to bridge the gap between normal and M series. Pretty BS stuff I must say.
That said, I cannot contest about the oddities you mentioned and the front axle hop since you owned a 911 before. But my one time experience ride in a 911 GTS on the track really made me think M3 is just a poseur car with a mean ass V8 engine. 911 felt so stable and assuring. I did not get the front axle hop you mentioned, most probably I am a noob and did not feel that.
Remember reading about the older M3 owners complaining that the new one which is E92 lacks soul as well because it became "soft". Indeed to each his own, but im sure alot of 911 owners will not contest that 911 outguns M3 in all performance departments. (act I feel M3 pales in comparison)
nebur;864414 said:Sorry mate, gotta disagree with you. The 911s of old were great. Porsche is first and foremost a business, and as a business they have to maximize profits, especially with the buy-out from VW. Most 911 buyers today (and you gotta admit the numbers are increasing like crazy) are not looking for an out and out sports car. The majority are middle age men looking for a sporty car, with a heritage and brand like Porsche that they can drive comfortably on a daily basis, and perhaps push once in a while. Which is why I guarantee if you drive a 991 and a 993, I am sure you will love the feel of a 993 way better even though it is less powerful (assuming you are a piston-head).
Further, unless you've actually owned a recent 911, or frequently drive one on the limit, I assure you the chassis has intrinsic problems such as front axle hop, which is pretty damn scary unless you are a pretty good racing driver. They have resolved this problem to a much larger extent on the 991, but they've also added in rubbish like electric steering etc. which has made the car feel more like a grand tourer.
Most true Porsche lovers buy 911s precisely because they like the oddities of the 911 and the steering feel. It makes the car unique and have "soul". Take all that out with the 991 and what do you have left........?
I'm not saying the M3 is better than the 911. It's a pointless argument. I love the older 911s and the current GT3/2 range. I just feel that the 991 carrera and carrera S just doesn't feel that special anymore.
You really want a kick-ass car, buy a GTR. You'd probably be able to take on any M, Porsche, Ferrari, or Lambo. I just can't bear to be seen driving one. Again, to each his own
All car manufacturers are profit maximising organisations, esp BMW. Just note their introduction of M Performance series to bridge the gap between normal and M series. Pretty BS stuff I must say.
That said, I cannot contest about the oddities you mentioned and the front axle hop since you owned a 911 before. But my one time experience ride in a 911 GTS on the track really made me think M3 is just a poseur car with a mean ass V8 engine. 911 felt so stable and assuring. I did not get the front axle hop you mentioned, most probably I am a noob and did not feel that.
Remember reading about the older M3 owners complaining that the new one which is E92 lacks soul as well because it became "soft". Indeed to each his own, but im sure alot of 911 owners will not contest that 911 outguns M3 in all performance departments. (act I feel M3 pales in comparison)
clar
Well-Known Member
Re: Anyone driven the new Porsche 991 C2S
I am not sure we are discussing this on the same track. Performance is not the factor here. Nobody argues that the 911 performs better on the track. They better be considering their focus in performance and lack of practicality. If we are talking abt performance, the GTR beats just about every car out there. I am not so sure if i would judge a car by ridding shortgun in it. The last time i had a ride in an E46 328i driven by Ringo Chong round Pasir Gudang track, i almost spilled my guts. The car could do things i can't even re-produce in my M3 today.
Niva;864500 said:
I am not sure we are discussing this on the same track. Performance is not the factor here. Nobody argues that the 911 performs better on the track. They better be considering their focus in performance and lack of practicality. If we are talking abt performance, the GTR beats just about every car out there. I am not so sure if i would judge a car by ridding shortgun in it. The last time i had a ride in an E46 328i driven by Ringo Chong round Pasir Gudang track, i almost spilled my guts. The car could do things i can't even re-produce in my M3 today.
Re: Anyone driven the new Porsche 991 C2S
I don't disagree about BMW. It has always been a mainstream brand together with Mercedes, Audi, etc. But Porsche used to be pretty special when I was young. They had cars that were specifically build for one purpose: driving pleasure. With the launch of the Cayenne, Panamera etc, they are becoming extremely mainstream, and to me lost a lot of their appeal.
The GTS is a very good car, but again, don't forget it's not a normal carrera. It was a special edition built to sit in between the Carrera S and GT3, and so is a mixture of both to a certain extent (which relates to my comment that the GT3/2 series is still brilliant). Also, I believe that the ride you had was on a track, where I also mentioned that even a normal Carrera S will kill the M3. On real road conditions, it's slightly different.
Niva;864500 said:
I don't disagree about BMW. It has always been a mainstream brand together with Mercedes, Audi, etc. But Porsche used to be pretty special when I was young. They had cars that were specifically build for one purpose: driving pleasure. With the launch of the Cayenne, Panamera etc, they are becoming extremely mainstream, and to me lost a lot of their appeal.
The GTS is a very good car, but again, don't forget it's not a normal carrera. It was a special edition built to sit in between the Carrera S and GT3, and so is a mixture of both to a certain extent (which relates to my comment that the GT3/2 series is still brilliant). Also, I believe that the ride you had was on a track, where I also mentioned that even a normal Carrera S will kill the M3. On real road conditions, it's slightly different.
Re: Anyone driven the new Porsche 991 C2S
Yup yup. I have strayed off topic. Just wanted to put things into perspective that 911 is better on the track thats all. For the shotgun ride, I actually switched ride and test drove a 911 GTS and thought it was an absolute delight to drive that car, so stable nimble and accurate. (granted I am really a poor driver, some bros probably can attest to that) But yeah, just felt 911 is so much better and fun to drive and handle. Yes GTR is a beast and im not going to there to dispute. But if u ask me which is a proper sportscar and more fun on the track and handles better, 911. So I agree with you in your earlier remark that, we cant really compare M3 and 911 since both are different product offerings. But when it comes to performance (handling etc, and im not referring to outright 0-100 blast), 911 is a winner.
clar;864523 said:
Yup yup. I have strayed off topic. Just wanted to put things into perspective that 911 is better on the track thats all. For the shotgun ride, I actually switched ride and test drove a 911 GTS and thought it was an absolute delight to drive that car, so stable nimble and accurate. (granted I am really a poor driver, some bros probably can attest to that) But yeah, just felt 911 is so much better and fun to drive and handle. Yes GTR is a beast and im not going to there to dispute. But if u ask me which is a proper sportscar and more fun on the track and handles better, 911. So I agree with you in your earlier remark that, we cant really compare M3 and 911 since both are different product offerings. But when it comes to performance (handling etc, and im not referring to outright 0-100 blast), 911 is a winner.
Re: Anyone driven the new Porsche 991 C2S
Let's try and clear this up:
1. The 997 GTS is an awesome sports car on and off track. Light weight, tuned up Carrera S, thumbs up
2. The 997 series still had great steering feel. Even if you bought a normal carrera.
3. Clar is talking about the new 991, which has a better pdk system then 997, and less axle hop. But no steering feel, (which is a 911 trademark), and feels less sporty and more GT-like.
4. Which begs the question, is it worth $100-150k more than an m3? That I leave to your own judgement.
5. Hopefully the GT3 as well as perhaps the GTS series (if they launch one) for the 991 will retain the attributes of the 991 whilst providing the true racing heritage and feel that 911s should have
Niva;864537 said:
Let's try and clear this up:
1. The 997 GTS is an awesome sports car on and off track. Light weight, tuned up Carrera S, thumbs up
2. The 997 series still had great steering feel. Even if you bought a normal carrera.
3. Clar is talking about the new 991, which has a better pdk system then 997, and less axle hop. But no steering feel, (which is a 911 trademark), and feels less sporty and more GT-like.
4. Which begs the question, is it worth $100-150k more than an m3? That I leave to your own judgement.
5. Hopefully the GT3 as well as perhaps the GTS series (if they launch one) for the 991 will retain the attributes of the 991 whilst providing the true racing heritage and feel that 911s should have
Re: Anyone driven the new Porsche 991 C2S
In the 997 and most iterations of the 911 before, if you are going at high speed and hit a little bump or experience uneven roads (which are realistic in real road conditions), the front of the car will hop (or literally get thrown in the air) due to the rear weight bias from the rear engine. When this happens, it throws the the car off-course and your testicles will shrink (unless of course you are Walter Rohl), thus making you slow down in case it happens again. This will happen on sg roads at about 180 km/h, whereas in the M3, or even an AMG for that matter, you can brazenly hit 200-220 km/h without experiencing any of these issues.
I don't own a 991, and have only test driven it, so for obvious reasons, the SE will not let me judge how much they have resolved this issue...hahah. But from most of the material on automobile reviews, the 991 is apparently much better than the 911s before in terms of this issue because they have made the balance of the car more "mid-engined".
Niva;864542 said:
In the 997 and most iterations of the 911 before, if you are going at high speed and hit a little bump or experience uneven roads (which are realistic in real road conditions), the front of the car will hop (or literally get thrown in the air) due to the rear weight bias from the rear engine. When this happens, it throws the the car off-course and your testicles will shrink (unless of course you are Walter Rohl), thus making you slow down in case it happens again. This will happen on sg roads at about 180 km/h, whereas in the M3, or even an AMG for that matter, you can brazenly hit 200-220 km/h without experiencing any of these issues.
I don't own a 991, and have only test driven it, so for obvious reasons, the SE will not let me judge how much they have resolved this issue...hahah. But from most of the material on automobile reviews, the 991 is apparently much better than the 911s before in terms of this issue because they have made the balance of the car more "mid-engined".
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clar
Well-Known Member
Re: Anyone driven the new Porsche 991 C2S
Thanks for sharing so much of your experience with the 911!!! Now u make feel bad for missing out on those good o days of the 993 Then again, i have never quite like the flat 6 note esp the older ones. I guess it's a love/hate thing for the flat 6. Would u consider the flat 6 from any 911 close to matching the aural pleasure from your V8 Vantage?
nebur;864562 said:
Thanks for sharing so much of your experience with the 911!!! Now u make feel bad for missing out on those good o days of the 993
Then again, i have never quite like the flat 6 note esp the older ones. I guess it's a love/hate thing for the flat 6. Would u consider the flat 6 from any 911 close to matching the aural pleasure from your V8 Vantage?
DrK
Well-Known Member
Re: Anyone driven the new Porsche 991 C2S
This is very true. Even on the 911 turbo which is 4WD, the hop is felt when you go over small potholes on the road. Basically all hands on the steering wheel when it happens!
On the other hand, the M3 feels so planted and glued to the roads, though slower. I actually feel more secured driving the M than the porky on freeways above 120km/h.
nebur;864562 said:
This is very true. Even on the 911 turbo which is 4WD, the hop is felt when you go over small potholes on the road. Basically all hands on the steering wheel when it happens!
On the other hand, the M3 feels so planted and glued to the roads, though slower. I actually feel more secured driving the M than the porky on freeways above 120km/h.
Re: Anyone driven the new Porsche 991 C2S
I think the sound of the older Porsches are nice especially the air-cooled ones. Someone brought in an original 911SC to Autoinc the other day for grooming, it sounded and looked amazing, but he wanted a ridiculous price for it. It's hard to say which sounds better, I kinda like them all, the old P-cars, the ferraris, the Vantage (plus there is a switch to keep the valves permanently open which makes the sound even better ) They each have their own uniqueness to the tone.
I feel the main problem with the 997 and 991 is how quiet they are. Even though my 997 was ordered with the sports exhaust, it was nowhere near the Aston, or even the M3 with Akra.
clar;864569 said:Thanks for sharing so much of your experience with the 911!!! Now u make feel bad for missing out on those good o days of the 993
I think the sound of the older Porsches are nice especially the air-cooled ones. Someone brought in an original 911SC to Autoinc the other day for grooming, it sounded and looked amazing, but he wanted a ridiculous price for it. It's hard to say which sounds better, I kinda like them all, the old P-cars, the ferraris, the Vantage (plus there is a switch to keep the valves permanently open which makes the sound even better
) They each have their own uniqueness to the tone.I feel the main problem with the 997 and 991 is how quiet they are. Even though my 997 was ordered with the sports exhaust, it was nowhere near the Aston, or even the M3 with Akra.
