Degree no good ..... just get a good job

[IntegraTypeS]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

WOW! 1 in 100 degree holders are millionaires!?!?!?!?! How many of them drive BMWs? And, is their FC better!?!?!

versus LIKE (as in for example).. not to be taken literally

Its always about relativity... even within degrees... higher percentage of Ivy leagues holder will do better than the average degree holder...

 

[detach8]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

You mean those finish bottom of class but graduated has no value ?

Yes, that is quite what I meant. Sorry if I'm blunt but if a guy finishes at the bottom, spent $100K in an overseas degree programme... he might as well go out and work and gain experience for the 3 years he spent wasting his time and money (parents or his own, doesnt matter).

During the time he worked 3 years, even with pathetic salary to start with (if that's what you insist -- that no degree then poor pay)

At least the guy working has
1) made money (his net worth is therefore +ve)
2) gained working experience

The guy who has gone studying has
1) lost money or incurred debt (his net worth is therefore -ve)
2) has zero working experience

So compare 3 year experience vs 0 experience.
And also +$72K earned salary, how ever little it may be ($2K for 3 years), versus a -$100K education debt.
The difference is -$172K.
Even if it is local uni, they are at least easily $100K apart monetarily, or if you want, "net worth" wise.

How long does it take to play catch up? You may say there's opportunity costs involved, but what kind of risk is it worth taking for $100K?

If you turn it into an insurance policy so as a logical comparison, would you pay $100K more over an extra 3 year period towards maturity just for that extra POSSIBILITY that your effective interest rate be increased by maybe 5-10%? What is the "guranteed" sum? I know this sounds totally fucked up to compare it with a child, but that is really how I rationalized my own education choices.

Guys should know better than that... after 2 years of army, your female peers are way ahead of you.

By the time a child enters uni, you would have already known if he/she is really a study material. If not, just let them do whatever they want. Even if it's just $20-30K, it is quite a lot of money to middle income people... and you could possibly even start a small business with that.

I believe we all know that even if you fucked around in school, you'll still be able to pass. Unless you are really THAT JIALAT. So how is the bottom percentile any better than having received no higher education?

 

[detach8]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

WOW! 1 in 100 degree holders are millionaires!?!?!?!?! How many of them drive BMWs? And, is their FC better!?!?!

i think their rims also bigger.

 

[Red_Bean_Bun]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

You clearly see education as a cost while for me I see it as an investment. A cost will never have an upside because burdens bears no risk. An investment in education will never be wrong unless you squander the principle. Assuming that if one is in the lower percentile assuming he graduated is a squanderer of time and money is myopic and lacks vision. Good thing that the current office bearers with similiar mindsets are not able to institutionalize policies based on what you prescribed.

Everyone in SG is entitled to an education even if they scrapped through which if different from actually failing to graduate.

Yes, that is quite what I meant. Sorry if I'm blunt but if a guy finishes at the bottom, spent $100K in an overseas degree programme... he might as well go out and work and gain experience for the 3 years he spent wasting his time and money (parents or his own, doesnt matter).

During the time he worked 3 years, even with pathetic salary to start with (if that's what you insist -- that no degree then poor pay)

At least the guy working has
1) made money (his net worth is therefore +ve)
2) gained working experience

The guy who has gone studying has
1) lost money or incurred debt (his net worth is therefore -ve)
2) has zero working experience

So compare 3 year experience vs 0 experience.
And also +$72K earned salary, how ever little it may be ($2K for 3 years), versus a -$100K education debt.
The difference is -$172K.
Even if it is local uni, they are at least easily $100K apart monetarily, or if you want, "net worth" wise.

How long does it take to play catch up? You may say there's opportunity costs involved, but what kind of risk is it worth taking for $100K?

If you turn it into an insurance policy so as a logical comparison, would you pay $100K more over an extra 3 year period towards maturity just for that extra POSSIBILITY that your effective interest rate be increased by maybe 5-10%? What is the "guranteed" sum? I know this sounds totally fucked up to compare it with a child, but that is really how I rationalized my own education choices.

Guys should know better than that... after 2 years of army, your female peers are way ahead of you.

By the time a child enters uni, you would have already known if he/she is really a study material. If not, just let them do whatever they want. Even if it's just $20-30K, it is quite a lot of money to middle income people... and you could possibly even start a small business with that.

I believe we all know that even if you fucked around in school, you'll still be able to pass. Unless you are really THAT JIALAT. So how is the bottom percentile any better than having received no higher education?

 

[DrK]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

I think u missed the major point of relativity....

Percentile of degree holder doing well in life will be greater than diploma holder and percentile of diploma holder doing well will be greater than high school cert holder.... and it goes on...

It's always relative and the percentage .... its like the media showcasing millionaire with no education; how many can achieve that... maybe like 1 in 100,000, versus like 1 in 100 for degree holder...

Not sure which point were you referring to. What you had said is common sense, no? So my question back to someone who would give out divine advice (any parents or Mr KBK himself) is: based on such common sense of relativity as you had put it, what would you advise a growing teenager on his/her educational path? Be camp 1 or be camp 2? In an ideal situation, all else being equal, what should the teenager choose?

Perhaps KBK was trying to console or encourage those teenagers in ITE in his message. But I feel that he was not being objective by telling everyone (yes newspapers printed it so it must be public) that degrees are useless and cannot be 'eaten'. Not sure who he was trying to fool but such pep talk had surely failed miserably in my opinion.

 

[detach8]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

Everyone in SG is entitled to an education even if they scrapped through which if different from actually failing to graduate.

Everyone is entitled to an education, but everyone cannot be entitled to a DEGREE that's my point.

 

[Red_Bean_Bun]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

I think you should say "don't deserve" versus "cannot be entitled" ........ totally different meaning.

Everyone is entitled to an education, but everyone cannot be entitled to a DEGREE that's my point.

 

[Red_Bean_Bun]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

I think you should say "don't deserve" versus "cannot be entitled" ........ totally different meaning.

Everyone is entitled to an education, but everyone cannot be entitled to a DEGREE that's my point.

 

[detach8]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

I think you should say "don't deserve" versus "cannot be entitled" ........ totally different meaning.

Don't twist my words hor... I never say don't deserve OK? I have been saying... if can make it, if got money, go ahead. If cannot make it, no money, no point force oneself to go and get a degree. I am not study material, so I did not get a degree. DrK is right with his analysis, I belong to the other camp. Have to learn to accept that sometimes life is like that and there are many paths to take. If my child can really study why will I stop him/her to do a degree... I didn't say don't deserve OK?

 

[Red_Bean_Bun]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

Where got twist .......

I am saying the phrase you coined should be with a "don't deserve" and not "cannot be entitled".

Take away someone's entitlement in SG have to go through legislation. Saying the guy finish last in class and don't deserve to graduate with a degree, no one can argue.

I actually think that those that slack and yet pass don't deserve to graduate.......

Don't twist my words hor... I never say don't deserve OK? I have been saying... if can make it, if got money, go ahead. If cannot make it, no money, no point force oneself to go and get a degree. I am not study material, so I did not get a degree. DrK is right with his analysis, I belong to the other camp. Have to learn to accept that sometimes life is like that and there are many paths to take. If my child can really study why will I stop him/her to do a degree... I didn't say don't deserve OK?

 

[detach8]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

You clearly see education as a cost while for me I see it as an investment.

No, I did not see it as a cost. I saw it as an investment and weight against the risk vs gain of the investment. Even when investing you also need to decide where to put the money into, right? That's exactly the same decision. You got $100K to spend on your kid. You:-

A) Throw him in a good local university, hoping he will do well.
B) Start a blogshop with 50K, ask your kid to manage it, then take the balance buy him an endowment plan that matures in 15 years.
C) Buy $10K worth of lottery then go to casino and gamble away the balance, hoping to get even more returns so you can retire and ask your kid to take care of you
D) Downpay a HDB flat and ask your kid to become property agent
E) Buy an air ticket to N Korea, throw your kid on the plane, kiss him goodbye and say good luck and give him all the balance money
F) Pretend to fall off the MRT track so your kid can get the $500K payout from your life insurance and go to US and study at CMU

 

[detach8]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

I actually think that those that slack and yet pass don't deserve to graduate.......

Then these people will KPKB right? Blame govt they cannot graduate, then vote for opposition.

See, you also agree with me that there are such people. We cannot prevent... can only reduce the possibility. One way is to keep the intake as it is now. Increasing the uni intake is not solving any problem.

 

[Red_Bean_Bun]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

Option F) I don't understand. If got 100k, how come want to pretend fall off MRT track ? That one is when you don't have 100k.

No, I did not see it as a cost. I saw it as an investment and weight against the risk vs gain of the investment. Even when investing you also need to decide where to put the money into, right? That's exactly the same decision. You got $100K to spend on your kid. You:-

A) Throw him in a good local university, hoping he will do well.
B) Start a blogshop with 50K, ask your kid to manage it, then take the balance buy him an endowment plan that matures in 15 years.
C) Buy $10K worth of lottery then go to casino and gamble away the balance, hoping to get even more returns so you can retire and ask your kid to take care of you
D) Downpay a HDB flat and ask your kid to become property agent
E) Buy an air ticket to N Korea, throw your kid on the plane, kiss him goodbye and say good luck and give him all the balance money
F) Pretend to fall off the MRT track so your kid can get the $500K payout from your life insurance and go to US and study at CMU

 

[KR81]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

Option F) I don't understand. If got 100k, how come want to pretend fall off MRT track ? That one is when you don't have 100k.

The father will paint the town red with the 100k first before falling off the track

 

[detach8]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

Option F) I don't understand. If got 100k, how come want to pretend fall off MRT track ? That one is when you don't have 100k.

Kiasu mah, cannot get into Ivy League uni like CMU. Need to at least have $600K... u say one what.. exec condo

 

[Red_Bean_Bun]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

Intake can increase .... raise the entrance requirements. Weed out slackers. Raise the quality of the uni. Move the uni up the rankings ..... add a bit of marketing .... manage the endowment funds well ...... and create a demand for its graduates not only locally since the market here is small but elsewhere as well.

But forget all that .... KBH just said "degree not vital for success". Just go get a job (magic) and carry on with your life ...... and don't rock the boat.

Then these people will KPKB right? Blame govt they cannot graduate, then vote for opposition.

See, you also agree with me that there are such people. We cannot prevent... can only reduce the possibility. One way is to keep the intake as it is now. Increasing the uni intake is not solving any problem.

 

[detach8]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

I ask you... how to intake INCREASE *and* RAISE standard? How? You already said in the end it's a zero sum game.

 

[Red_Bean_Bun]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

Why cannot ? Those that meets SAT requirements come in. NUS / NTU rankings today is enough to attract student from different countries. I thought you have a professor friend. Ask him.

My old school just expanded with a new building because intake increase. And the entrance requirements went up due to more people competing to apply in SG. Recently, sat in on their admissions panel ...... candidates quality getting better leh.

How they did it ? Say already in my post.

I ask you... how to intake INCREASE *and* RAISE standard? How?

 

[detach8]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

Why cannot ? Those that meets SAT requirements come in. NUS / NTU rankings today is enough to attract student from different countries. I thought you have a professor friend. Ask him.

My old school just expanded with a new building because intake increase. And the entrance requirements went up due to more people competing to apply in SG. Recently, sat in on their admissions panel ...... candidates quality getting better leh.

How they did it ? Say already in my post.

Basically increasing intake requirements will "price" people out. It is not technically possible to increase intake AND increase quality. How can you have a street full of degree holders and all of them are high quality? Boh ko leng one. It's all about distribution ratio.

Yes, and I met with the prof he told me they are actually taking in TOO many students that the standards have dropped. In fact they want to reduce the intake.

It's no different from our method of increasing price as a barrier of entry to vehicle purchase. Up the price, reduce the quota, in the end we will see a lot of "high quality" vehicles on the road, to put it that way. Up the price, up the quota, we will have a lot of unused quota. Up the quota, lower the price, you see a lot of cheaper cars on the road.

What you are seeing in your old school is that the increase in intake resulted in an increase in the population of good students. In some sense, you can say that if China have 1 billion people, bound to have 1 million of them are smart. It's still a ratio. But you really want 1 billion people with degree or not? Or you rather have only that 1 million with a degree.

 

[Red_Bean_Bun]

Re: Degree no good ..... just get a good job

Technically possible.

In fact studied in China before. The school I went to increased intake and entrance requirements as well. They cannot accommodate 1bn students but their intake did increase.

And the entrance is based on the "standard" test like sat and gmat. those scores went up.

What for have another "quota" here (draw the parallel - "we don't want too many cars" and "we don't want too many graduates" ? Got quota for cars already not enough now people suggesting number of graduates should also have not too many because "What you do not want is to create huge graduate unemployment" - KBH.

If the job market is small here ... then go somewhere else to work. If NUS is famous....people will want their graduates.

Basically increasing intake requirements will "price" people out. It is not technically possible to increase intake AND increase quality. How can you have a street full of degree holders and all of them are high quality? Boh ko leng one. It's all about distribution ratio.

Yes, and I met with the prof he told me they are actually taking in TOO many students that the standards have dropped. In fact they want to reduce the intake.

It's no different from our method of increasing price as a barrier of entry to vehicle purchase. Up the price, reduce the quota, in the end we will see a lot of "high quality" vehicles on the road, to put it that way. Up the price, up the quota, we will have a lot of unused quota. Up the quota, lower the price, you see a lot of cheaper cars on the road.

What you are seeing in your old school is that the increase in intake resulted in an increase in the population of good students. In some sense, you can say that if China have 1 billion people, bound to have 1 million of them are smart. It's still a ratio. But you really want 1 billion people with degree or not? Or you rather have only that 1 million with a degree.