F30 316i Opens for Booking Soon at PML
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Re: F30 316i Opens for Booking Soon at PML
yes. CEVS rebate is taken out from ARF. since ARF is now = OMV, the PARF value at 10 years when deregistering car will be equal to 50% of OMV.
for a car with 30K OMV
assuming no CEVS rebate, PARF at 10 years will be 15K
with 5K CEVS rebate, PARF will be 30K (ARF) - 5K (CEVS rebate) = 25K (ARF Paid) x 50% = 12.5K
with 10K CEVS rebate, the PARF at 10 years will become 30K - 10K = 20K x 50% = 10K
dankoo;940508 said:
yes. CEVS rebate is taken out from ARF. since ARF is now = OMV, the PARF value at 10 years when deregistering car will be equal to 50% of OMV.
for a car with 30K OMV
assuming no CEVS rebate, PARF at 10 years will be 15K
with 5K CEVS rebate, PARF will be 30K (ARF) - 5K (CEVS rebate) = 25K (ARF Paid) x 50% = 12.5K
with 10K CEVS rebate, the PARF at 10 years will become 30K - 10K = 20K x 50% = 10K
Re: F30 316i Opens for Booking Soon at PML
Technically got some savings. But depends on OMV of car.
If u look at the above examples, the actual savings is 2.5k for a 5k cevs rebate and 5k for a 10k cevs rebate.
However if one buys a car with low OMV with max 20k cevs rebate, then there may be no PARF at all at 10 years.
Technically got some savings. But depends on OMV of car.
If u look at the above examples, the actual savings is 2.5k for a 5k cevs rebate and 5k for a 10k cevs rebate.
However if one buys a car with low OMV with max 20k cevs rebate, then there may be no PARF at all at 10 years.
Re: F30 316i Opens for Booking Soon at PML
OOPs!! This is BMW-SG. F30 316 made in German is definitely better than Jap.
For the price of F30 316, i would rather buy Toyota Camry 2.5 or Teana 2.5. There is no replacement for displacement.TUV2008;940648 said:
OOPs!! This is BMW-SG. F30 316 made in German is definitely better than Jap.
Red_Bean_Bun
Well-Known Member
Re: F30 316i Opens for Booking Soon at PML
How about Mazda ?
How about Mazda ?
davidtch;940667 said:
Slow_poke_driver
Well-Known Member
Re: F30 316i Opens for Booking Soon at PML
Don't believe who ever that tell you car has no parf or -ve parf..tuck yew is not so stupid...
After cev rebate, there is a minimum sum you must pay for the tax, don't know is 5k or 10k...
It is like you buy a car omv 50k, cev rebate 10k, your arf payable is like 40k...
BUT, if You buy a car omv 15k, cev rebate 15k, your arf that is payable is still 5k...not $0...Tuck yew ish clever one.
Actually this is a VERY VERY BAD system. It makes calculation of depreciation very confusing. What they should have done is to NOT touch the new car tax, but give rebate in terms of road tax, like some countries do. Apply the road tax carbon emission tax for EVERY CAR on the road. Old cars with higher carbon emission will pay more road tax. Then that will encourage people to change to new car with lower emission. COE will BOOM BOOM BOOM. Goverment is richer, tuck yew has fatter bonus, environment is cleaner. WIN WIN WIN case. Even psle holder like me can see it...don't know why million $ ministers cannot.
Don't believe who ever that tell you car has no parf or -ve parf..tuck yew is not so stupid...
After cev rebate, there is a minimum sum you must pay for the tax, don't know is 5k or 10k...
It is like you buy a car omv 50k, cev rebate 10k, your arf payable is like 40k...
BUT, if You buy a car omv 15k, cev rebate 15k, your arf that is payable is still 5k...not $0...Tuck yew ish clever one.
Actually this is a VERY VERY BAD system. It makes calculation of depreciation very confusing. What they should have done is to NOT touch the new car tax, but give rebate in terms of road tax, like some countries do. Apply the road tax carbon emission tax for EVERY CAR on the road. Old cars with higher carbon emission will pay more road tax. Then that will encourage people to change to new car with lower emission. COE will BOOM BOOM BOOM. Goverment is richer, tuck yew has fatter bonus, environment is cleaner. WIN WIN WIN case. Even psle holder like me can see it...don't know why million $ ministers cannot.
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Slow_poke_driver
Well-Known Member
Re: F30 316i Opens for Booking Soon at PML
Actually yes, the new replacement for displacement is TURBO...hearsay new replacement for turbo is hybrid...Camry and teana 2.5 just don't have the pull as a modern di turbo, even though paper numbers are the same. Almost bought the camry 2.5 when it was 170+k in apr. However, it just does not have the low-mid range pull for daily city usage.
Personally though, camry 2.5 vs 316i, I will also take camry. At least don't need go back pml to complain about road noise, wind noise or jerky transmission.
davidtch;940667 said:
Actually yes, the new replacement for displacement is TURBO...hearsay new replacement for turbo is hybrid...Camry and teana 2.5 just don't have the pull as a modern di turbo, even though paper numbers are the same. Almost bought the camry 2.5 when it was 170+k in apr. However, it just does not have the low-mid range pull for daily city usage.
Personally though, camry 2.5 vs 316i, I will also take camry. At least don't need go back pml to complain about road noise, wind noise or jerky transmission.
wt_know
Well-Known Member
Re: F30 316i Opens for Booking Soon at PML
i will not bite if the cev rebate is in the form of road tax rebate
how much is 1.6L 2.L 2.5L road tax ... we are not talking about ferrari/lambo/maserati with high road tax
a $1K-$1.5K road tax rebate takes 10 years to enjoy $10K-$15K
5 years change car liao ... besides road tax rebate is too little to "feel" when it's paid 1/2 yearly see nothing
there is less motivation to get less co2 emmission car
if using road tax formula
less co2 emmission car = after rebate, pay less road tax, minimum $50?
high co2 emmission car = pay even higher road tax
using cev rebates
less co2 emmission car = cev rebate upfront and road tax is not "very" expensive if one take a low emmission car like 1.6L and 2.0L turbo
high co2 emmission car = no cev rebate and yet kena cev tax + high road tax (current, based on cc)
i will not bite if the cev rebate is in the form of road tax rebate
how much is 1.6L 2.L 2.5L road tax ... we are not talking about ferrari/lambo/maserati with high road tax
a $1K-$1.5K road tax rebate takes 10 years to enjoy $10K-$15K
5 years change car liao ... besides road tax rebate is too little to "feel" when it's paid 1/2 yearly see nothing
there is less motivation to get less co2 emmission car
if using road tax formula
less co2 emmission car = after rebate, pay less road tax, minimum $50?
high co2 emmission car = pay even higher road tax
using cev rebates
less co2 emmission car = cev rebate upfront and road tax is not "very" expensive if one take a low emmission car like 1.6L and 2.0L turbo
high co2 emmission car = no cev rebate and yet kena cev tax + high road tax (current, based on cc)
Slow_poke_driver;940712 said:
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Slow_poke_driver
Well-Known Member
Re: F30 316i Opens for Booking Soon at PML
This is where people don't see the issue with cev.
Every 10k of cev rebate is actually only 5k because your parf is lowered. End of the day, you will buy cheaper and sell cheaper, which means that you will not really enjoy a real 10k rebate, not even remotely close. 5k divided into 10years, it is only $500 per year. Not any more significant than road tax rebate. I believe some cars in uk are actually road tax free because they are too clean?
By your same arguement of road tax rebate being insignificant, I can also tell you that a 10k rebate with 5k lowered parf is equally insignificant when you are looking at a 200+k car. It sure wasn't even on my radar when I bought my daily ride despite me knowing that I can get a 5k discount off the list price for cev if I had waited for another 6 months.
Now, one may urgue that some really clean and tiny cars can get a 20k carbon rebate, which translates to a real 10k savings. Will any form of road tax rebate for a 1.6l sedan ever come close to the real 10k rebate? Honestly no. However, one also needs to take note that a small 1.6l sedan will never get the full 20k cev rebate because the omv is probably 15k nia, or even lesser, and the minimum sum of arf you need to pay is 5k(5k or 10k? 5k is the ideal situation liao...). That means your actual carbon emission rebate is only 10k which translates to a real savings of 5k. 5k of road tax savings can be easily achieved for a 1.6L or even a 1.4L.
Wouldn't it be nice if one could buy a 1.4L car and not pay a single cent in road tax? For many of us here, $500/year increase in road tax is just a pair of pants off the shopping list. For a typical young family that will look at a small car, road tax is a major consideration when choosing a car. Actually, road tax is still a consideration when one is deciding between a E250 and E300. Worst of all, it usually comes together with the insurance premium...
This is where people don't see the issue with cev.
Every 10k of cev rebate is actually only 5k because your parf is lowered. End of the day, you will buy cheaper and sell cheaper, which means that you will not really enjoy a real 10k rebate, not even remotely close. 5k divided into 10years, it is only $500 per year. Not any more significant than road tax rebate. I believe some cars in uk are actually road tax free because they are too clean?
By your same arguement of road tax rebate being insignificant, I can also tell you that a 10k rebate with 5k lowered parf is equally insignificant when you are looking at a 200+k car. It sure wasn't even on my radar when I bought my daily ride despite me knowing that I can get a 5k discount off the list price for cev if I had waited for another 6 months.
Now, one may urgue that some really clean and tiny cars can get a 20k carbon rebate, which translates to a real 10k savings. Will any form of road tax rebate for a 1.6l sedan ever come close to the real 10k rebate? Honestly no. However, one also needs to take note that a small 1.6l sedan will never get the full 20k cev rebate because the omv is probably 15k nia, or even lesser, and the minimum sum of arf you need to pay is 5k(5k or 10k? 5k is the ideal situation liao...). That means your actual carbon emission rebate is only 10k which translates to a real savings of 5k. 5k of road tax savings can be easily achieved for a 1.6L or even a 1.4L.
Wouldn't it be nice if one could buy a 1.4L car and not pay a single cent in road tax? For many of us here, $500/year increase in road tax is just a pair of pants off the shopping list. For a typical young family that will look at a small car, road tax is a major consideration when choosing a car. Actually, road tax is still a consideration when one is deciding between a E250 and E300. Worst of all, it usually comes together with the insurance premium...
wt_know;940718 said:
motorknut
Well-Known Member
Re: F30 316i Opens for Booking Soon at PML
I think you have the math flipped, there. The rebate is taken off the tax you pay - ARF. That's currently 100% of the OMV. So upfront, you subtract the CEV rebate from the ARF. so 10k rebate should (rightfully) translate to 10k off the list price.
Assuming you scrap the car after ten years, your PARF is 50% of the ARF (or 50% of OMV, since current structure is ARF = OMV). So technically, a 10k CEV rebate means you got 10k upfront savings, whereas without a rebate - that 10k you paid as part of ARF is only returned to you as 5k when you scrap the car.
So I would rather pay less tax upfront, than have higher "ARF" value translating to potentially only 50% clawback at scrap time. Even if you deregister your car early, the max PARF you get back is 75% of ARF.
Slow_poke_driver;940737 said:
I think you have the math flipped, there. The rebate is taken off the tax you pay - ARF. That's currently 100% of the OMV. So upfront, you subtract the CEV rebate from the ARF. so 10k rebate should (rightfully) translate to 10k off the list price.
Assuming you scrap the car after ten years, your PARF is 50% of the ARF (or 50% of OMV, since current structure is ARF = OMV). So technically, a 10k CEV rebate means you got 10k upfront savings, whereas without a rebate - that 10k you paid as part of ARF is only returned to you as 5k when you scrap the car.
So I would rather pay less tax upfront, than have higher "ARF" value translating to potentially only 50% clawback at scrap time. Even if you deregister your car early, the max PARF you get back is 75% of ARF.
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Slow_poke_driver
Well-Known Member
Re: F30 316i Opens for Booking Soon at PML
No it is not flipped.
You buy 10k cheaper.
You scrap 5k less.
Real savings is just 10-5k=5K.
A real 10k discount if when the new car cost 10k less and yet parf is unchanged.
I will also like to pay less tax whenever possible. However, in this case, it is just a case of making first time car buyers think that they are getting the full 10k discount, when in reality, the actual discount is only 5k. Isn't this buy cheap, sell cheap?
motorknut;940741 said:
No it is not flipped.
You buy 10k cheaper.
You scrap 5k less.
Real savings is just 10-5k=5K.
A real 10k discount if when the new car cost 10k less and yet parf is unchanged.
I will also like to pay less tax whenever possible. However, in this case, it is just a case of making first time car buyers think that they are getting the full 10k discount, when in reality, the actual discount is only 5k. Isn't this buy cheap, sell cheap?
wt_know
Well-Known Member
Re: F30 316i Opens for Booking Soon at PML
isn't buy cheap sell cheap is better than buy high sell high?
ie: $20k cev rebate for a $200k car = take $20k loan lesser
loan interest is the most shiong for the first 3 years and there is no interest for road tax which is paid every 6 months in small quantum in cash
isn't buy cheap sell cheap is better than buy high sell high?
ie: $20k cev rebate for a $200k car = take $20k loan lesser
loan interest is the most shiong for the first 3 years and there is no interest for road tax which is paid every 6 months in small quantum in cash
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Slow_poke_driver
Well-Known Member
Re: F30 316i Opens for Booking Soon at PML
Yes, buy cheap sell cheap is better than buy high sell high. However, buy cheap sell cheap is not as great as the "buy cheap sell high" deal that many think they are getting.
Interest is some savings. $188/yr/10k. 5 year loan for 20k will save extra $1880. Of course this is ideal case because it is almost impossible to get a 20k rebate based on the scheme due to minimum arf payable. This is because the idea behind the scheme is that cars that are small and clean(and cheap) are already very fuel efficient, so there is no need to give further incentives.
wt_know;940867 said:
Yes, buy cheap sell cheap is better than buy high sell high. However, buy cheap sell cheap is not as great as the "buy cheap sell high" deal that many think they are getting.
Interest is some savings. $188/yr/10k. 5 year loan for 20k will save extra $1880. Of course this is ideal case because it is almost impossible to get a 20k rebate based on the scheme due to minimum arf payable. This is because the idea behind the scheme is that cars that are small and clean(and cheap) are already very fuel efficient, so there is no need to give further incentives.
motorknut
Well-Known Member
Re: F30 316i Opens for Booking Soon at PML
But PARF refundable at scrap time, is a refund from your tax. So if you don't pay the tax, you don't get anything back. What we shouldn't mix up is OMV versus ARF. OMV is the value of your car, ARF is the tax you pay (a function of OMV). PARF is a rebate from your tax. Reduced upfront tax of course means reduced tax rebate. The part we are all getting screwed over on, is the lack of value for the car itself.
For example, my PARF is 33k. Dealer says he'll pay me 34k. 1k value for the body. I'm pretty sure they make much more exporting our old cars to Africa, or even from scrap metal value. Even a 25year old beat up toyota in Perth goes for AUD1K.
But the CEV is not the culprit. I'd rather save 10k upfront, than pay additional 10k ARF and claw back half of it via PARF.
Maybe we should all try exporting our own cars. Now that PARF is refundable in cash, we aren't held hostage by the required paper value conversion.
Slow_poke_driver;940861 said:
But PARF refundable at scrap time, is a refund from your tax. So if you don't pay the tax, you don't get anything back. What we shouldn't mix up is OMV versus ARF. OMV is the value of your car, ARF is the tax you pay (a function of OMV). PARF is a rebate from your tax. Reduced upfront tax of course means reduced tax rebate. The part we are all getting screwed over on, is the lack of value for the car itself.
For example, my PARF is 33k. Dealer says he'll pay me 34k. 1k value for the body. I'm pretty sure they make much more exporting our old cars to Africa, or even from scrap metal value. Even a 25year old beat up toyota in Perth goes for AUD1K.
But the CEV is not the culprit. I'd rather save 10k upfront, than pay additional 10k ARF and claw back half of it via PARF.
Maybe we should all try exporting our own cars. Now that PARF is refundable in cash, we aren't held hostage by the required paper value conversion.
