Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

[MW]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

Maybe we can have some clarity here.

Scenario: PI car got manufacture defect. Engine died w no mods done at all. Can we go to PML/MA for repair without paying adoption fee? Are ADs obliged to repair since they represent the brand here? Can we take legal action if ADs refuse? Is it in their right to refuse a BMW car? (I know all the ding dong rationale about AD having to do this for higher running overheads etc). This would require just be a Yes or No answer.

I am asking this for a simple reason: Is there a loophole in our current AD/PI system? We as customers should not really be bothered about the complex relationship btw BMW Asia/PML/MA or even speculate about this rubbish. If a product is defective due to manufacture fault, then manufacturer should be obliged to repair regardless.

I feel some bros getting very personal with some of the comments posted here. AD/PI car buyers or not....we should all respect each other's view.

You are right. The discussion has gone alittle off track somewhat into service quality which is not really what TS was going on about.

My view is the same as Ken. If you buy from PI and the warranty is by the PI, then you recourse whether or not its a manufacturer's defect, lies with the PI and his warranty workshop. Precisely because we shouldn't be bothered about the relationship between BMW AG, Asia, PML, MA or PI makes it simpler. You buy from who, you go back to who.

BMW is only a brand. Its not an Intellectual Property. The brand allows multiple types of distributors such as UI/PI and AD routes. Its the customer who choose which one he wants. The brand does not get involved. Its the distributor who is involved with you, the customer. Unless there is a special arrangement that the brand will honour the warranty regardless of where you bought it from, then your recourse is the company you bought from.

 

[kenntona]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

Maybe we can have some clarity here.

Scenario: PI car got manufacture defect. Engine died w no mods done at all. Can we go to PML/MA for repair without paying adoption fee? Are ADs obliged to repair since they represent the brand here? Can we take legal action if ADs refuse? Is it in their right to refuse a BMW car? (I know all the ding dong rationale about AD having to do this for higher running overheads etc). This would require just be a Yes or No answer.

I am asking this for a simple reason: Is there a loophole in our current AD/PI system? We as customers should not really be bothered about the complex relationship btw BMW Asia/PML/MA or even speculate about this rubbish. If a product is defective due to manufacture fault, then manufacturer should be obliged to repair regardless.

I feel some bros getting very personal with some of the comments posted here. AD/PI car buyers or not....we should all respect each other's view.

If the car is bought from PI, and the international warranty is issued from PI, should the logical process not be going back to PI? Let PI sort it out with AD.

If AD refuses to resolve the issue, it is PI's problem. Cannot fix problem, cannot honour warranty, car owner can always seek legal recourse against PI.

[This is one inherent risk with buying PI/UI cars, and we know that....]

If PI cannot solve, they could either pay AD for the adoption fee and get the car back in order, or address the issue to BMW Asia to direct ADs to undertake the repair. Of course, the costs involved in another matter altogether. But undeniably, this is an issue with the PI, not the AD.

Do bear in mind that the international warranty on a PI car is via PI, not PML/MA.

 

[rex7_vtec]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

My question was not about which is better, PI or AD. Rather it was pointed out that since AD offers adoption fees as an alternative then it should at least say yes or no your problem can be rectified and not pay then we tell you can anot.

Bang table is fun. But if you had paid $100k more to bang the table and still get a fcuked face attitude, will your monies still be worth it then?

Anyway this is just my opinion. Maybe I'm dumb then so be it lor.

 

[MW]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

My question was not about which is better, PI or AD. Rather it was pointed out that since AD offers adoption fees as an alternative then it should at least say yes or no your problem can be rectified and not pay then we tell you can anot.

Bang table is fun. But if you had paid $100k more to bang the table and still get a fcuked face attitude, will your monies still be worth it then?

Anyway this is just my opinion. Maybe I'm dumb then so be it lor.

Then the question is what they meant by "adoption"?

Like Stuttgart, if "adoption" means I get my PIed Porky on the same warranty and servcing footing as their Porkies, then ok what.. you can ask for the sun and moon within warranty period "because you have already been adopted and your car is the same as the cars they sold'.

If "adoption" is just about "we only agree to have a look at your car and advice you on the repairs and what to do but you still pay for the repairs even within warranty period hor", then kum lan?

 

[jinooi]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

let me provide another perspective...

the best selling passenger car brand YTD is BMW, probably because of the launch of the F10. but the service capacity has not increased in the past few years.

It's rare for a mass luxury brand to be at the top, and PML cannot keep up with the after sales service they are supposed to provide. a similar problem happened to Audi and VW 2 years ago, but they seemed to have addressed it now.

why is PML unable to keep up with the after sales service despite enjoying the huge profit margins and fantastic sales? this is not something new. i've been facing this problem for more than 5 years, when the brand started to gain favour in Singapore and the number of bimmers on the road started increasing.

one possibility is that as the AD, i'm not sure when my luck would run out and sales would dip, given the volatile nature of the automotive industry here. so i would be hesitant to invest in fixed costs like increasing the aftersales dept and improving the facilities, etc. so at the end of the day, it's the consumer who suffers with a longer waiting time, sub-standard service, etc.

what i cannot understand is the sub-standard quality of the people PML is employing as service staff. as an SA, if you don't know, then admit you don't know and tell me you will go and find out - i will be more forgiving if you are at least honest with that. but don't come to me with some cock-and-bull story and put the blame back on me for something that doesn't make sense. plus i have to wait for god-knows-how-long for them to diagnose a simple problem? i can probably bitch all day about PML, so i won't get started here...

my honest opinion - if the AD is someone like PML, then you are better off buying from PI. screw the bloody warranty. i would rather go to an independent workshop, with more knowledgeable staff who would provide me better service at a better price, and value my patronage more. for me, it's not important even if the cost is slightly higher (not more than 10%). what's important is the quality and speed of the service. my car is supposed to be the ultimate driving machine, so it should not be spending much down time in the bloody workshop.

if however, the AD is someone who values it's customers above everything else, and would provide all-encompassing coverage, then by all means buy from the AD to spare yourself the inconvenience.

 

[golfgti]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

to me this has nothing to do with PI or AD, its got to do with BMW supporting their customers international. So if a Brit drove his BMW X5M from the UK to here & needs urgent repair, does he need to pay adoption fee first? How about a Thai/Malaysian X5M getting it repaired here?

Do Brits face the same issue if they take their BMWs to France or Germany?

To say not making $ from servicing sounds as dubious as customers are def willing to pay premium to get it repaired at MA instead of independent workshops, yet they refuse.

 

[Centurion9990]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

to me this has nothing to do with PI or AD, its got to do with BMW supporting their customers international. So if a Brit drove his BMW X5M from the UK to here & needs urgent repair, does he need to pay adoption fee first? How about a Thai/Malaysian X5M getting it repaired here?

Do Brits face the same issue if they take their BMWs to France or Germany?

To say not making $ from servicing sounds as dubious as customers are def willing to pay premium to get it repaired at MA instead of independent workshops, yet they refuse.

According to my brit mate, his BMW is well supported thru out Europe... He drove to France or Hungary and ride broke down before and the Local AD towed and serviced his ride w/o warrenty issues.

 

[satinGHOST|r!der]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

Which probably makes sense cause BMW Asia and PML are sleeping in bed and fingering each other's holes' to the high heavens.

 

[jinooi]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

what is the premise of charging the adoption fee for non-AD vehicles?

so that i can get my vehicle fixed/servicedby the AD without having any addtional worries i might face from independent workshops?

to qualify, the AD needs to be credible and earn the trust of the buyers. i find it difficult to trust the BMW AD when even a simple problem takes ages to be diagnosed, plus their many botched jobs we have come across in this forum...

 

[wt_know]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

IMHO, PI owner couldn't care less about AD regular service. Who want to send in to AD for servicing where they are plenty of choices out there.
It's the warranty claim that they are after, aren't they? So, the big question still goes back to what BMW AG international warranty is
I agree with kenn's post. If PI car, let PI settle the international warranty claim even they have to 'finger' PML
However, some expect that AD should accept non AD car as part of BMW AG worldwide service and recovery just like in Europe where owner travel cross countries frequently.

 

[masschaoz]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

IMHO, PI owner couldn't care less about AD regular service. Who want to send in to AD servicing with 1-2 days downtime?
It's the warranty claim that they are after, aren't they? So, the big question still goes back to what BMW AG international warranty is
I agree with kenn's post. If PI, let PI settle the international warranty claim. Let PI finger PML ....

I think if subject matter involves Munich, their servicing doesn't take that long..for the //M of course

 

[whymehor]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

Each country's car industry (so is BMW itself ), based on the market size/population/land/wealth etc has their standards/policies/rules/regulation/practices/agendas/games to play along, spoken or hidden. One can definitely debate for months/years/decades.

Not saying its unnecessary to debate here, but I tend to agree Kenn's views. as a chinese saying. 解铃还需系铃人 - "Whoever tied the knot on the bell is the one to untie it".

So for those who wana have best of both world i.e. PI price but full AD benefits- its definitely not happening in SG - when can't fight, just join the game.

Away from the topic, personally I prefer AD (of course PML is exception!!!) as life is short so time is precious to me..$ still can earn back..time is one of few things you can never buy.Dun wana end up waiting like a retarded moron in various workshops every other week when my car had problems - had enough of them when with PML.

Anyway, its just a car.

 

[MW]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

Which probably makes sense cause BMW Asia and PML are sleeping in bed and fingering each other's holes' to the high heavens.

U da expert on holes! or Hos?!!

 

[ClemZ]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

The price u pay for a brand new UK BMW has the warranty factored into the sticker price already.
Since warrenty is already paid for, shouldnt it also b covered even though it's exported?

Having said that, if your PI M5 has a warrenty claim on the engine, can u ship the engine back n have it repaired/replaced by BMW UK?

 

[MW]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

The price u pay for a brand new UK BMW has the warranty factored into the sticker price already.
Since warrenty is already paid for, shouldnt it also b covered even though it's exported?

Having said that, if your PI M5 has a warrenty claim on the engine, can u ship the engine back n have it repaired/replaced by BMW UK?

Actually technically thats the correct procedure!

 

[satinGHOST|r!der]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

U da expert on holes! or Hos?!!

Please don't insult me this fasting month. HOLeY!!!

 

[pengful]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

The main reason people go to buy from PI is because AD sucks. If AD provides best-in-class after-sales service, competitive pricing and a great loyalty program, any normal thinking person will not mind paying a little more to buy from them and stick with them. If they are like that, then all PIs can go suck thumb and there is nothing that they have to worry about.

'nuff said!

 

[Niva]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

So if once international warranty is established, i.e. regardless one claim thru PI dealer or directly by himself to AD, the manufacture defect liability has to be honoured right?

If above is true, am I right to say that it makes no difference to buyers if car is bought thru PI or AD since if its manufacture defect, it can be claimed via AD or PI to AD to BMW Asia or whatever? If this is right, then am I right to say that its an anti-competition move by AD to impose adoption fee? Is this even legal then?

This brings me to another question...if all above are true, are ADs then hiding behind this blurred truth and using it as an excuse to charge higher cos "my running overhead costs are higher"?

I agree w Kenn that u claim from who u buy from. As you can defer, im not disputing this rationale but rather is AD even right to charge adoption fee for something they are obliged to do so anyway as bounded by the international warranty.

 

[Rocky99]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

So much about getting the AD to service PI cars, I'm just wondering whether are there any issues in M cars that are so complex and require special diagnostic tools whereby reputable workshops here cannot handle?

If there isn't, why bother so much about MA adoption? If they don't want want extra business, then be it lor. I bet many owners/aspiring owners can do without the "feel good" factor of walking into their beautiful workshop, but still have the M badge, and keep a good $80k savings in the bank.

 

[DriveAllDay]

Re: Munich Automobile => AD responsibility

u wanna save money...n u still expect AD to service u....like saying u go pay 40 bux kokokuay but expect 150 bux look and service.

i marry viet chick as mistress doesnt mean my son got to call mommy.

import boxter save 70k n expect SA to honour...singaporeans really too much.

totoseow

You can disagree, and I would respect your view. You don't have to be rude...